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Old 07-28-2003, 03:38 PM
sfc_darrel sfc_darrel is offline
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Post We've Already Won--and We're Still Winning

We've Already Won--and We're Still Winning
Quagmire fantasists are no doubt secretly enjoying the recent spike in U.S. casualties in Iraq. The Associated Press reports on the death of a U.S. soldier in a Baghdad grenade attack:

The death brought to 49 the number of soldiers killed in a guerrilla war since May 1, when President Bush declared an end to major combat in Iraq. In all, 163 U.S. soldiers have died in action in Iraq, 16 more than in the 1991 Gulf War.

While every death of an American serviceman is a tragedy, this sort of scorekeeping is silly. After all, World War II claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans, yet no one claims that war was a "quagmire." The real question is whether these casualties are in a winning cause.

Talk of "quagmire" in Iraq is awfully surreal, given that we've already won the war and ousted the regime. All that remains is to mop up whatever resistance that's left. And a report in today's Washington Post make clear that effort is proceeding apace. "As Iraqi fighters launched guerrilla strikes, the U.S. Army adopted a more nimble approach against unseen adversaries and found new ways to gather intelligence about them," reports the Post's Thomas Ricks:

Thousands of suspected Iraqi fighters were detained over the six-week period, many temporarily, in hundreds of U.S. military raids, most of them conducted in the dead of night. In the expansive region north of Baghdad patrolled by the 4th Infantry Division, more than 300 Iraqi fighters were killed in combat operations, the military officials said. In the same period, U.S. forces in all of Iraq have suffered 39 combat deaths. The continuing casualties--such as the four soldiers killed Saturday--are the direct result of the intensified U.S. offensive, the military officials added.

The best evidence that the evidence is losing: "At the beginning of June, before the U.S. offensives began, the reward for killing an American soldier was about $300, an Army officer said. Now, he said, street youths are being offered as much as $5,000--and are being told that if they refuse, their families will be killed, a development the officer described as a sign of reluctance among once-eager youths to take part in the strikes."
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Old 07-29-2003, 10:44 AM
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BLUEHAWK BLUEHAWK is offline
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sfc Darrel -

Then assuming what you have posted is close to accurate (which I believe it is, by the way):

The greater danger to our troops in Iraq is that the American government is imposing a form of democracy upon the Iraqi people which they do not want, or have not had a chance to select and design on their own... as promised they would.

That, is the "quagmire".

The American Enterprise Insitute fellows and friends have done this to us all, and bear no legal responsibility for having done it.
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Old 07-29-2003, 12:02 PM
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Kindly inform of your source of information that the Iraqis don't want democracy, or what form of democracy they're objecting to? And how onearth can this be construed as a "quagmire"? Isn't the very word "quagmire" one ginned up by the news spinners, in order to create a litte, or a lot, of controversy, so they can sell their journalistic drivel? :cd:

And is the American Enterprise Institute part of the conspiracy-driven scenario you're trying to peddle? How, pray tell, do they fit in? Sounds like yo may have been listening to that US Rep. from Indiana, who wants a law passed to prohibit mind-control from being beamed in on us from outer space. :cl:
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Old 07-29-2003, 12:45 PM
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Superscout -
Well, I don't believe it's a conspiracy or anything that subtle. The AEI is right out front with it, every time we get to see them speak in a group at their headquarters or as individuals on the 24-hour news. It's just there, every single time.

- They fit in by having spent the past ten years or more drawing up position papers and talking points which the current administration uses every single day in the formation of foreign policy. Check it out yourself. Look at the history on their website, and then compare what they have been agitatiing about and advocating for with the course our government is taking. You won't have to "read between the lines" very much either.

- I did NOT say that Iraqis do not want democracy. What I said is that the KIND of democracy they are going to receive is not going to be the kind that they would choose if they were left up to their own devices. They were PROMISED a democracy of their own design. They ain't gonna get it.

- A possible corrollary would be how America handled things when Iran democratically elected (twice!) their own government. In the first case, it was overthrown and the Shah was installed... and we all know what came next. Here lately we're at it again in Iran... encouraging opposition to their duly elected Theocracy. If I were a partisan of that opposition, I would not rest easy that the sole remaining super power would be there for us if anything went haywire during transition, so to speak.

- I think, pretty sure anyhow, that the word "quagmire" has come up from the sources just as you mentioned... mainly trying to tie the MILITARY situation in Iraq into what we experienced in Vietnam. That is an erroneous connection, at best. My mention of it was only to suggest that IF there is any quagmire, then it's a political one.
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