IED question

[PHO127]

Scout, I got into a discussion with blue a year or so ago on m16s and ballistics, The more you try and answer the more he will come back with inane questions that only show that he has no grasp of the discussion.

Blue read above, now go to the library and get books on physics and explosives and nuclear weapons. and read them.

A shaped charge is an explosive charge that has been formed in a certain way in order to concentrate the power of the explosion in a certain direction. One of the methods of causing a nuclear reaction is to cause the radio active material to exceed critical mass. One method is to surround the material with a SHAPED CHARGE of conventional high explosives and detonate the high explosive compressing the radio active material to a point that it exceeds critical mass thus causing a nuclear chain reaction. BOOM. So in a point yes they were shaped charges.

[BLUEHAWK]

Originally posted by PHO127 Scout, I got into a discussion with blue a year or so ago on m16s and ballistics, The more you try and answer the more he will come back with inane questions that only show that he has no grasp of the discussion.

Blue read above, now go to the library and get books on physics and explosives and nuclear weapons. and read them.

A shaped charge is an explosive charge that has been formed in a certain way in order to concentrate the power of the explosion in a certain direction. One of the methods of causing a nuclear reaction is to cause the radio active material to exceed critical mass. One method is to surround the material with a SHAPED CHARGE of conventional high explosives and detonate the high explosive compressing the radio active material to a point that it exceeds critical mass thus causing a nuclear chain reaction. BOOM. So in a point yes they were shaped charges.

I believe that I acknowledged that statement.

Is there something wrong with asking another question?

I guess the reasons I don't "go to the library" to read up about these type matters are:

a. Because there are so many experts right here... one has only to ask! Usually, there is a good probability that an answer will eventually emerge.

b. I spend almost all my time in a library as it is, earning a living. I come here to relax and get away from my job.

c. A great value of sites such as this is benefitting from the experience of others, if we will allow ourselves to do so and not get it in our minds that we know everything there is to know about certain topics with which we have little or no history.

d. I was never very good in math or science.

I'm sorry you felt my questions about M16s and ballistics were "inane." I learned something from that and this discussion though, and maybe somebody else did too.

I did not go through any combat training of any sort approaching what many of you here did, and the closest thing I saw to a weapon or a bullet in BMT or anywhere else was an M1 carbine, with two clips, on one day at the range. Oh, I forgot... the APs carried 45 cal. sidearms, so I saw those every time I passed through the main gate. In his infinite wisdom, Uncle Samuel assigned me to cargo aircraft, whose job it is to do our best to haul you and your stuff to where both are needed and back. The Air Force did pretty well in relief at Khe Sanh, for an example.

Though Scout teases me a good deal over the years, he has never failed to reply or try to add something when I had a question about his area of expertise... and to accept my word when he has one about mine.

Somehow the retired DSC combat vet from Widow's Village and the lowly airman slick mechanic managed to find common ground, and enjoy one another's company. What he, Bill, Chas, Matzos and Doc explained here was extremely helpful, and I thank them for their patience.

If there were another reliable forum on PF, or anywhere else, where a total novice could ask important questions about weaponry and not get their head chewed off by experts, then I'd rather go there. But, this is what we have, and I'd trust Murph with my life.

[PHO127]

Questions didn't I? And yes there were some very good answers. Just that comparing a shaped charge to little boy shows you have not grasped the concept of a shaped charge. My suggestion would be to take the information gleaned from the site and then go study the subject in a library or on the internet. I did not or have not suggested you stop asking questions.

When I started to reload my own ammunition I bought several books and studied the subject for 2 years before I even bought the first peice of equipment. Asking a question of people when you have absolutly no understanding of the subject. leads to you not understanding the answer and continually asking successive questions without grasping the answer. NOW

1. Explain to me the concept of how a RPG shaped charge works.

2. How does a claymore mine shaped charge work?

[BLUEHAWK]

Thanks for all the replies...

Kinda funnny though, it ain't as if I'm contemplating building any IEDs, Pho

Questions come to mind, so, I ask those who claim to or might know the short answers...

I'm more interested in these things in terms of current events, not in terms of technically learning how to kill and blow up stuff. For example, Matzos gave a complete explanation of TYPES of IED which was total news to me.

The word "IED" has been in various reports about this war 800 zillion times, but I actually did not have any idea what they are... except that they're deadly and they explode. I gather that unlike myself, most people just HAVE the knowledge of what all these words mean?

I could not identify a claymore from a hat box, yet. So, I have the choice of looking it up myself, or going directly to the source and saving about a week's time and/or suffering misinformation.

This ain't Basic Training, nor a classroom, as far as I'm concerned... and I was always sorta famous for insubordination in both places anyway.

[PHO127]

I guess that was why I was (still am) a hardcore no BS special forces officer and you were a AF mechanic. Cease Fire declared.

[BLUEHAWK]

Originally posted by PHO127 I guess that was why I was (still am) a hardcore no BS special forces officer and you were a AF mechanic. Cease Fire declared.

Yup...

Thanks.

In my days they didn't exactly ask anyone, "So, what role would YOU most enjoy having in the USAF, eh?", and at the time, if they'd have offered me full college help, I'm not real sure I'd have been enticed by that.

They drew a number for us, and mine was 43111A (I got to 51A, but had to earn the 3 and then the 5).

[82Rigger]

Blue,

Maybe this will help a little on your SHAPED CHARGE question.

Below is an illustration of a U.S. M31 rifle grenade. This grenade was in use in the 50's and 60's. Maybe some of our combat vets in here used it. It was fired from an M1 or M14 rifle using a special grenade-launching cartridge. It was designed for use against armor and other hard targets. Its blast would penetrate 10 inches of armor or 20 inches of concrete.

On the left is an external view. On the right is the grenade in cross-section.

I colored the explosive charge yellow so you can see better its inverted cone shape. The area in front of the explosive is empty...hollow. At the very tip of the grenade is the piezo electric detonator.

When the grenade impacts the inverted cone shape causes a jet of extremely hot and extremely fast gases to be directed toward the tip. These gases melt the armor and penetrate (hopefully) to the inside of the target.

If the grenade were simply filled with explosive, the energy would expand in ALL directions with only a small portion of the energy directed forward into the target.

[BLUEHAWK]

Thanks Rigger...

I see that there is a short wire leading from the crystal down into the charge, which I assume is what ignites the explosion.

a. What is the role of the booster, as pictured?

b. Do you know about how much armor that grenade could penetrate? I read a somewhat lengthy explanation of contemporary Tank armoring which dealt with not only thickness of the metals, but a kind that actually deflects or spreads the blast... it sort of looks like scales on a fish.

[PHO127]

Leads back to the igniter then booster, the booster charge detonates then ignites the Comp B shaped charge. Comp B is a very stable HE and uses a supplementary or booster charge to ignite it. Comp B is what is used in artillery shells. Here is a picture of an IED truck bomb with 250 artillery shells

[Andy]

Gerry Bull was sort of a Dr. Strangelove. When he started working for Iraq his days were numbered. Don?t think there is much doubt he was murdered by Mossad. 5 bullets, 2 in the head and all at point blank range.

Stay Healthy,
Andy