A picture worth a thousand words

[Wazza]

Hey Drywall I don't beieve you

Philly said

The early warning signs of frostbite: Skin feels cold, looks pale, and/or hurts. As freezing progresses, the skin gets paler and the pain stops. With more freezing, the skin grows hard, like ice . Serious frostbite may produce skin that looks purple .

If you see early warning signs, stop immediately and warm the cold parts with skin-to-skin contact. Don't rub the cold skin .

Ibuprofen helps prevent clots from forming. Take 400 mg as soon as you suspect frostbite and repeat every 12 hrs.

Now you tell me sex in cold climates is how you keep warm - yeah right your telling me your willing to risk frostbite on the digit to keep it warm.

Mae I want a one liner for this!!!!

[Drywall]

Hi Waz,
Skin to skin Waz, skin to skin. Ya don't wait for frostbite to happen. You have to take preventative measures.

[philly]

Are guys sure you don't already have a case of frostbite?

[Keith_Hixson]

Skin to Skin,

Back in the mid-seventies I did mountain rescue and mountain climbing for recreation. When you are climbing 30- tempatures plus the wind chill factor you educate yourself well about hypothermia and frostbite. Aspirin works well for keeping the blood thinned down and that is what we would use.

We had a team up on Mount Rainier that went to rescue some climbers caught in a winter storm (weather kills more people than accidents on Rainier). When they found the three climbers they found they were all suffering from hypothermia. They immediately set up a tent and got them into sleeping bags to warm them up, made some warm soup for them and tried to feed them some high nutrient foods for energy. There was a young woman in the group, and she was in really bad shape. They tried to strip her down to her under clothes and have one the men from the rescue team strip down and crawl in bed with her. She had enough senses she wouldn't let them because she thought they were taking advantage of her. So they tucked her in a good dry sleeping back and got the tent warmed up. Sometime during the night she died. The leader of the team really suffered for many years from the what ifs. We should have forced her to it, it would have saved her life He was really angry with himself many years later when I talked to him. I was not on the rescue but it really bothered him a lot. He blamed himself for her death.

Keith

[Drywall]

Kind of a sad commentary on us mere humans and our fears.

[Wazza]

Keith

I've never really thought before how close ministers and honest cops are to each other in what they do for their fellow citizens and how they are confronted with heartache and misery on a daily basis. I might get a bit of flack for that comment but it's true and I've just realised it.

Isn't it funny how the truth never lies. I make light issue of many things for a particular reason and some close to me understand. You have the uncanny ability to know when it is important to be truthful and bring us mere mortals back to reality. The truth never lies but it also causes a lot of pain and anguish as you know only too well. But the truth needs to be spoken.

I can understand the anger and anguish the rescurer felt and it would be a hard case to mend. Do you not agree that in this case the cure for the rescuer involved telling lies to begin with before the truth could ever be expounded.

I tend to ramble when I'm emotionally charged or overwhelmed with remorse. You have the skills to adminisiter therapy my friend and over vast distances when the recipient does even know it was required.

I am privilleged you allow me to call you friend what a different place the world would be if we were ALL friends.

[Keith_Hixson]

Wazza,

When I was a young pastor, 28, I pastored a small rural church in a very small resort town in Washington's Northeast Cascades. The town was Winthrop. The local Doc recruited me to be a part of the Mountain Rescue team. He put five or six of us through Medic Training. It was a 9 month training and testing. Learning defribulation and IV theropy plus all kinds of advanced first aid. I only did two major Mountain Rescue. However, I worked as a medic out of a Fire Dept. for 7 and half years. I also taught first aid and advance first aid out of the local community college for 7 years. All this while pastoring a church in the Olympia area of the state of Washington. Because of these activities I probably have a better insite than many ministers on fears and anguish that crisises bring into a person's life. This rescuer and I met in a First Aid refresher course for Mountain Rescue that I was teaching. He told the whole class about the incident and he cried as he told the story. He really had what we would call PTSD over the incident. We identified with each other because I had done mountain rescue we talked several times since then. It really bothered him alot.

I remember when I worked as a volunteer chaplain for the Thurston County Sheriff's Dept. I was assigned to ride one evening with a young deputy and he said to me, "Reverend, I must warn you things can get pretty rough out there and if we have an accident or something I don't want you freaking out on me." I chuckled and said, "I think I'll be alright." I didn't tell him I'd probably seen a lot more "blood and guts" than he had. People make assumptions based on preconceived ideas. He was a fine young deputy. He later learned I'd been a medic and apologized.

In reality all minister deal with life, and death. Some deaths are very difficult for ministers to bring comfort to a family. (Crib deaths, accidents, etc) You just say I'm sorry and cry with the families and that is all you can do. Theological explanations don't work near as well as just being there and caring.

Thanks Wazza, must appreciated.

Drywall,

It is sad, but people going through hypothermia aren't very coherent. In hind site he probably should have stripped her down made her do it. He was a good moral man. But, I can't be critical, I wouldn't have wanted to violate her sensibilities and may have made the same decision. But, after heard this story, I'd probably force her to do what it took to save her life.

Keith

[Wazza]

Keith

Your reply to Drywall is what I was trying to say about telling the rescuer the truth. He should have striped her down but you have to get to the truths slowly [as you know] and then make logical sense of it to him, that even if he had done this it may not have saved her. It wasn't he that took her life it was God and for God's purpose.

The sooner humanity starts putting something ahead of themsleves the sooner this planet wil truely become paradise, the Garden of Eden, as God intended.

[philly]

It was a tough call for the rescuer. He was trained in severe cold weather injuries, but he's not infallible. He saw how uncomfortable it made the lady feel having a man on top of her. He thought of protecting her emotional state. He did what he thought was right at the time.

In hindsight, he saw it was an unfavorable judgement call because someone died. Trying to make everything right, sometimes causes confusion and bad decisions. In this case, the best decision would have been to stick to the book. I don't fault the rescuer because he made an emotional decision. I do understand why he is guilt ridden. However, he needs to forgive himself.

God is forgiving. We, as humans, are often times not forgiving. If we forgave our trespassers, the world would be a little less chaotic and we could all be friends.