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Old 06-09-2003, 08:12 AM
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Gimpy Gimpy is offline
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Default Do you think POW's deserve "monthly Compensation"

even IF they have NO apparent "disabilty" asscociated with their capture and internment??

Check this out.
*************************************
VETERANS RESOURCES NETWORK

Dear Readers,

According to the VFW magazine, page 10, June/July 2003 edition, the
Congress is considering compensating former U.S. Prisoners of War
(POW's). If you were held for 30-120 days you would rate a $150.00
per month check, and 121-540 days a $300.00 check. The Bill was
introduced by Rep. Mike Simpson (R-Idaho).

It seems a bit odd to compensate people for surrendering. The Code
of conduct for U.S. Military personal is copied below and states
resistance is primary. Capture is always a possibility, and those
who serve as POW's deserve thanks, but not a monthly paycheck.

While it is commendable for POW's to be recognized by the POW medal,
and receive compensation for disability associated with their
captivity, it would undermine the will to fight if Military persons
were paid simply for surrendering.

Your Editor,
Ray B Davis, Jr.

(NOTE: below the code of conduct, and below that the Bill H.R. 850)

##### START #####

10631 Code of Conduct for Members of the Armed Forces of the
United States
Signed: August 17, 1955
Federal Register page and date: 20 FR 6057, August 20, 1955
Amended by: EO 11382, November 28, 1967; EO 12017,
November 3, 1977

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------

Executive Order 10631--Code of Conduct for members of the Armed
Forces of the United States

Source: The provisions of Executive Order 10631 of Aug. 17,
1955,
appear at 20 FR 6057, 3 CFR, 1954-1958 Comp., p. 266, unless
otherwise noted.

By virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the
United States, and as Commander in Chief of the armed forces of
the United States, I hereby prescribe the Code of Conduct for
Members of the Armed Forces of the United States which is
attached to this order and hereby made a part thereof.

All members of the Armed Forces of the United States are
expected
to measure up to the standards embodied in this Code of Conduct
while in combat or in captivity. To ensure achievement of these
standards, members of the armed forces liable to capture shall
be
provided with specific training and instruction designed to
better equip them to counter and withstand all enemy efforts
against them, and shall be fully instructed as to the behavior
and obligations expected of them during combat or captivity.

[Second paragraph amended by EO 12633 of Mar. 28, 1988, 53 FR
10355, 3 CFR, 1988 Comp., p. 561]

The Secretary of Defense (and the Secretary of Transportation
with respect to the Coast Guard except when it is serving as
part
of the Navy) shall take such action as is deemed necessary to
implement this order and to disseminate and make the said Code
known to all members of the armed forces of the United States.

[Third paragraph amended by EO 11382 of Nov. 28, 1967, 32 FR
16247, 3 CFR, 1966-1970 Comp., p. 691]

Code of Conduct for Members of the United States Armed Forces

I

I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country
and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their
defense.

[Article I amended by EO 12633 of Mar. 28, 1988, 53 FR 10355, 3
CFR, 1988 Comp., p. 561]

II

I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I
will
never surrender the members of my command while they still have
the means to resist.

[Article II amended by EO 12633 of Mar. 28, 1988, 53 FR 10355, 3
CFR, 1988 Comp., p. 561]

III

If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means
available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to
escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the
enemy.

IV

If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow
prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action
which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will
take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those
appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

V

When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am
required
to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will
evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I
will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country
and its allies or harmful to their cause.

[Article V amended by EO 12017 of Nov. 3, 1977, 42 FR 57941, 3
CFR, 1977 Comp., p. 152]

VI

I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom,
responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles
which
made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United
States of America.

[Article VI amended by EO 12633 of Mar. 28, 1988, 53 FR 10355, 3
CFR, 1988 Comp., p. 561]

##### H.R. 850 (portion) #####

Former Prisoners of War Special Compensation Act of 2003 (Introduced
in House)

HR 850 IH

Sec. 1181. Special compensation: former prisoners of war

`(a)(1) The Secretary shall pay monthly to each veteran who is a
former prisoner of war and who while a prisoner of war was detained
or interned for not less than 30 days special compensation at the
rate specified in subsection (b).

`(2) For the purposes of this section, the term `veteran' includes
an individual serving on active duty.

`(b) The rate of special compensation for purposes of this section
shall be as follows:

`(1) If the former prisoner of war was detained or interned for a
period of not more than 120 days, the monthly amount of special
compensation payable shall be $150.

`(2) If the former prisoner of war was detained or interned for a
period of more than 120 days and not more than 540 days, the monthly
amount of special compensation payable shall be $300.

`(3) If the former prisoner of war was detained or interned for a
period of more than 540 days, the monthly amount of special
compensation payable shall be $450.

`(c) If a former prisoner of war was detained or interned on two or
more separate occasions, the cumulative length of all occasions of
confinement or internment as a prisoner of war shall determine the
monthly compensation rate payable under subsection (b).


##### END #####

Signed:
Veterans Resources Network
Ray B Davis Jr, Editor
Box 68
East Flat Rock, NC 28726
http://www.veteransresources.net
***************************************

I don't know about you---but I think this is BULL$HIT!!!

Hell, if they can "afford" to do this---they can give ALL "disabled vets" or their dependents, and/or widows a pretty healthy raise in their disability compensation---HUH?
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"MUD GRUNT/RIVERINE"


"I ain't no fortunate son"--CCR


"We have shared the incommunicable experience of war..........We have felt - we still feel - the passion of life to its top.........In our youth our hearts were touched with fire"

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  #2  
Old 06-09-2003, 11:18 AM
Andy Andy is offline
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Question Not sure

I have an older friend (he used to be a cop) who was in Korea. He was with the 1st Cav and his battalion under orders from their CO surrendered. When he first told me that story I was shocked. Not trying to sound like John Wayne but the word surrender was never part of my working vocabulary.
Gene said his M-1 was working and he had plenty of ammo and felt like crap about giving up. However there were men around him who had already laid down their weapons and were walking toward the Chinese. He said he figured that if he started shooting his friends would have been mowed down.
While a captive they had barracks with just one door. They were made to wipe their feet on the door matt, an American flag, before entering. He tells me he stepped over the flag one day and a couple of Chinese used him as a training aid to do vertical and horizontal butt strokes. Given his circumstances, I have no idea what I would have done. Just glad it never came to that.
Now as far as pilots getting shot down over enemy territory, I can sort of understand the POW thing.
In WWII didn?t we have a couple of Divisions surrender during the beginning of the Battle of the Bulge? That was pretty bad. You?d think that at least some of the guys would have found some place to hide in an attempt to avoid capture. Maybe they did.
Anyway, if they want to give these men a little, very little, money for enduring POW status, what the hell. Can't you see arguments on both sides of the issue? It?s not like their going to give people extra money for burning draft cards.

Stay healthy,
Andy
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Old 06-09-2003, 01:52 PM
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Packo Packo is offline
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Default If we have money

to give to people for having children.......we have money to give former POW'S. The hardships they entail, for the most part, are unspeakable. Let's give them a POW Tax Credit.....no, guess you can't call it that, POW'S EARNED that money.

Surrender. Surrendering in Vietnam for an enlisted man was almost certain death. Surrendering to the Japanese, was almost worse than death. Surrendering to the Germans, gave you the best chance. The North Koreans and Chinese were cruel bastards also. I always believed I would never surrender in Vietnam but having not been put in that situation....I don't know. I will not ever judge someone who surrendered. Our government gives away money every day to people that never earned it. CMH recipients also get a stipend....which is good. Let's give it to the POW'S. I've got no problem with that.

Packo
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Old 06-09-2003, 02:01 PM
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Until the circumstances encounter each of us - we don't really know how we would react. I'm not sure I really could answer this without having been captured.

Surrendering is a personal thing and until I was in that spot I couldn't dare make a comment on how I would react or what I would do. Captured you could make a difference - Dead is dead.
Captured you may have a chance to escape or gather information that would be beneficial to others later.

I just can't really say what I would do under those circumstances. If I had ammunition and some means of escape or at least a chance I fight on. Consider the wounded if your not there to carry them or nurse them many would be shot on the spot. There are many hero's that were captured and even those who surrendered for whatever the reasons will always have the memory of the events they had to undertake.

Death isn't always the most galmerous way to go living and surviving are the real battles of mind and body and the soul.

Gimpy and Andy I just don't have a good answer and its awful tough to judge others when I haven't been where they've been - regardless of the circumstances by they were imprisoned.
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O Almighty Lord God, who neither slumberest nor sleepest; Protect and assist, we beseech thee, all those who at home or abroad, by land, by sea, or in the air, are serving this country, that they, being armed with thy defence, may be preserved evermore in all perils; and being filled with wisdom and girded with strength, may do their duty to thy honour and glory; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

"IN GOD WE TRUST"
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Old 06-09-2003, 02:15 PM
39mto39g 39mto39g is offline
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Default Almost captured once

Me and the Lt sat inside a bush for about 5 hours, I had two hand gernades with the pins pulled, I was going to eat one of them ,, No capture for me thank you.

Im not sure how I feel about getting paid for being a POW, I guess they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Our nation has always been a giving nation, and our vets deserve the money, if thats in front of some POW thing well I would have to say Go ahead with it.

Ron
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  #6  
Old 06-09-2003, 02:22 PM
billr billr is offline
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Default POW

The term POW is not synonymous with surrender. A large number of POW's were captured, either after their aircraft were shot down or their positions were overrun. The vast majority of those that did surrender were ordered to do so, more than 70,000 American and Filipino soldiers at Bataan alone. Before the "Death March" was over, somewhere between 5,000 and 11,000 would die.

I for one firmly believe that these men deserve everything and anything we can do for them.
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Old 06-09-2003, 04:21 PM
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Gimpy Gimpy is offline
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Default Well I guess I'm the "odd" man out

Again.

Now don't get me wrong. I truly believe that IF the $$$$$$$ are (or were) available to offset the costs for this program---that would be a totally different story. But, with the VA in the shape it's currentlt in----hundreds of thousands of vets (disabled or otherwise) having to wait sometimes up to a YEAR for a medical appointment/treatment, disablity compensation claims taking YEARS to be adjudicated, disabled vets and their dependents & survivors receiving "token" compensation increases LOWER than the rate of inflation---I fail to see the "urgency" of this new proposal. ESPECIALLy when they (former POW's) already receive MORE benefits and have better access to medical treatment than the overwhelming majority of most military veterans now.

Check THIS out!
*******************************************

Benefits and Services for Former Prisoners of War
Definition of a Former Prisoner of War (POW)
Period of War
Peacetime-Comparable to Wartime
Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC)
Disability Compensation
POW presumptive disabilities
Health Care
Other Benefits
Where to Go for Assistance
POW Partner Links
Definition of a Former Prisoner of War (POW)
Period of War
A Former POW is a veteran who, while on active duty in the military, air, or naval service, was forcibly detained or interned in the line of duty by an enemy government or its agents or a hostile force during a period of war.

Periods of war include: World War I, World War II, the Korean Conflict, the Vietnam War, and the Gulf War.
Peacetime-Comparable to Wartime
A Former POW also includes a veteran who, while on active duty during peacetime, was forcibly detained or interned by a foreign government or its agents or a hostile force, if the circumstances of the internment were comparable to wartime internment (for example: Somalia or Kosovo).
Health Care
Former POWs receive priority treatment for VA health care.


If you have a service?connected disability and are a Former POW, you?re eligible for VA health care. This includes hospital, nursing home, and outpatient treatment.

If you don?t have a service-connected disability and are a Former POW, you?re eligible for VA hospital and nursing home care ? without regard to your ability to pay. You are also eligible for outpatient care on a priority basis ? second only to veterans with service-connected disabilities.

While you are receiving treatment in an approved outpatient treatment program, you are eligible for needed medicines, glasses, hearing aids, or prostheses.

If your POW internment lasted 90 days or more, you are eligible for all needed dental care. Veterans who were POWs for less than 90 days should check with their nearest VA medical facility to determine if other criteria would apply to establish eligibility for dental care.
Disability Compensation
Former POWs are eligible for VA service-connected disability compensation to the same extent as other veterans.

If you were a POW for at least 30 days and are diagnosed with any of the conditions below, the condition is presumed to be related to service. Presumptive disabilities are based on studies of the long-term effects of captivity, deprivation, trauma, and cold injury on former POWs. For first-time claimants, there must be a special POW Protocol Examination conducted at a VA medical facility to help determine if you have any of these disabilities.
POW presumptive disabilities
POW presumptive disabilities fall into the following categories:
Nutritional. These disabilities result from the long-term effects of the malnutrition suffered as a POW. While you may not be suffering from malnutrition now, it is possible to have residual disabilities from malnutrition during captivity. These include:
Avitaminosis ? a disease resulting from lack of vitamins.
Beriberi ? a disease marked by inflammatory or degenerative changes of the nerves, digestive system, and heart caused by a lack of thiamin.
Malnutrition (including atrophy associated with malnutrition).
Pellagra ? a disease marked by dermatitis, stomach disorders, intestinal disorders, and nerve symptoms associated with a lack of niacin.
Any other nutritional deficiency.
Helminthiasis. Infectious residuals from any type of parasitic worm.

Neuro-Psychiatric. Disabilities in this category are normal consequences of POW captivity. Some of these disabilities can show up many years following captivity and can produce mild to severe symptoms. Irritability, anxiety, restlessness, sleep disorders, and unsociability are only a few of the symptoms. These disabilities include:
Psychosis
Dysthymic Disorder (Depressive Neurosis)
Any of the Anxiety States (e.g., PTSD)
Gastrointestinal Disabilities.Including:

Peptic Ulcer Disease? ulcerations of the digestive tract
Irritable Bowel Syndrome ? symptoms can include pain and constipation, chronic diarrhea, or both.
Chronic Dysentery ? frequent, watery stools with rectal/abdominal pain, fever and dehydration.
Cold Injury. The freezing of tissue. The extremities farthest from the heart are usually affected, primarily the nose, ears, hands and feet. This usually produces long-term side effects such as numbness, discoloration, excessive swelling, pain, and possibly arthritis in the affected areas.

Traumatic Arthritis. This disability looks and is treated like degenerative arthritis (arthritis associated with age) except it is caused by severe trauma to specific joints.

Peripheral Neuropathy. A neurological disorder characterized by numbness and tingling of the extremities. It can be caused by nutritional deficiency and will be evaluated by VA as a separate disability for each extremity affected.

Ischemic Heart Disease. A heart disability which may be related to service. Also called coronary artery disease, this disability is characterized by the narrowing of arteries which supply vital oxygen to the heart. Often treated by angioplasty or coronary artery bypass surgery, this is a disability which is commonly found in the aging population; however, this disability can be presumed to be related to service if a diagnosis of this type of heart disease is made and the veteran indicates swelling of the legs (edema) during captivity on his/her POW Protocol Examination.
Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC)
DIC is payable to survivors (spouse, parent or children) of:
service members who died on active duty
veterans who died from service-related disabilities
certain veterans who were being paid 100% VA disability compensation at time of death
Surviving spouses of former POWs qualify if the veteran:
died after September 30, 1999, and
was continuously rated totally disabled for a service-connected condition for at least 1 year immediately preceding death.
DIC ends if the surviving spouse remarries.

But if that marriage ends by death or divorce, DIC benefits may start again.
Other Benefits
Eligible Former POWs and their surviving spouses may be entitled to other benefits available through VA such as disability pension, death pension, loan guaranty, insurance, burial benefits, etc. To obtain information about these benefits see section below.
Where to Go for Assistance
A Former POW Coordinator has been designated at each VA regional office who can provide you information about and assistance in applying for the benefits and services available to you.
****************************************
I agree---These folks DESERVE all we can award them. BUT---let's get the "system" funded properly BEFORE we start awarding things in addition to the "stuff" ALREADY in need of "fixing".

That's just my two-cents worth.
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"MUD GRUNT/RIVERINE"


"I ain't no fortunate son"--CCR


"We have shared the incommunicable experience of war..........We have felt - we still feel - the passion of life to its top.........In our youth our hearts were touched with fire"

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
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  #8  
Old 06-09-2003, 04:27 PM
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Gimpy,

Believe me we all hear you. The issue that's being passed had to be of some importance even though the few that will collect it will have to prove they were POW's.

They will make things very difficult for them to collect you know how the system works.
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O Almighty Lord God, who neither slumberest nor sleepest; Protect and assist, we beseech thee, all those who at home or abroad, by land, by sea, or in the air, are serving this country, that they, being armed with thy defence, may be preserved evermore in all perils; and being filled with wisdom and girded with strength, may do their duty to thy honour and glory; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

"IN GOD WE TRUST"
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:02 PM
Robersabel Robersabel is offline
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There is no question money talks...

There is another category former POW's have been unjustly denied recognition: Their combat service. Particularly those participated in the Battle of the Bulge, Bataan, and Corregidor.

Many with a variety of MOS’s picked up their weapons, formed or joined existing infantry units. Many were killed or wounded while serving as infantrymen. In the Philippine Islands, the majority were taken prisoner.

Upon repatriation, a substantial number were processed at stations, and received their awards and decorations. There are two commonly fell by the wayside. The Purple Heart, and Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB).

As recent as 2003, a member of the First Provisional Air Corps Regiment, II Corps that fought in the Battle of Bataan was presented the CIB. As recent as 2008, a former member of the AAF that was wounded (frostbite) during captivity at (ETO) was posthumously awarded the Purple Heart by the Air Force Board for Correction of Military Record.


The USAF took jurisdiction of AAF personnel regarding awards, and decorations in 1948. Exception: Badges i.e. CIB. The Army retains the authority to award the CIB.

Copies of documents reveal hundreds of combat infantrymen without the MOS of an infantryman were awarded the CIB in accordance with guidelines dated during the early 1940’s.

Copies of documents reveal former POWs were awarded the Purple Heart for wounds (frostbite) incurred during captivity.


Yet today, the Army continues to deny the Purple Heart to Army personnel that incurred wounds (frostbite) during captivity. According to guidelines, USAF, and a former JAG Colonel they are eligible.


The Army continues to deny the CIB to former combat infantryman in the class identified above. Their justification refers to guidelines not applicable to veterans of the Philippines.


Where is the justice for their contribution towards the freedom we enjoy today?>>


Robert
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:07 PM
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Which side???
Is Obama going to pay the Gitmo detainees now?
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