Proven Phonies

[reconeil]

Chill-out, before you pop-a-gasket,...and especially since unwarranted.

Besides,...how-the-hell can anyone in their right mind continually waste their time arguing and defending failures and failed policies of the last half-a-century,...by the MOST ALWAYS Democrat Leftist MAJORITY Party? Actually, you or any failures have got quite some gall to QUESTION ANYONE about ANYTHING.

Get over it. You lost,...and Dems are FINALLY The BIG TIME LOOSERS for-a-change.
So, perpetually echoing The DNC Mantra or Tactic (only political tactic available and left Democrats) of blaming Bush and Cheney's 4 years in office for everything ailing America for about the last half century,...exposes you and all other fanatical Democrats as petty and vindictive and without any solutions whatsover FOR ANYTHING. Bash, bash, bash. Nothing more, nothing less.

Keep up the Good Work Gimpy,...since there might still be some other Democrat Followers out there, not yet realizing how well they've been politically duped by their Leaders FOR SO LONG A TIME,...and/or duped by America's foreigner-favoring Leftists, The Politically-correct Crowd and/or ACLU types,...FOR SO LONG A TIME.

Neil

[Gimpy]

It is hard to admit that one has been used. Isn't it Neil??

Bush and his merry band of crooks are playing you and those who believe as you do like a cheap drum my friend!

Talk about "failure" and "failed policies"?

Where's Osama?

Where's the WMD?

Are there more "terrorists" now than before the war in Iraq??

And, are they killing more of our young men and women than before Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld made the decision to send less troops (without proper amored vehicles & body armor btw)than the Army Chief of Staff and the majority of top ranking generals said would be required to win not only the WAR.......but to adequately win the PEACE as well???

Are there more beds NOW in VA nursing homes than before Bush took office?

Are the lines shorter and waiting times less at VA health clinics and hospitals?

Are there more ....or LESS doctors and nurses at VA health care clinics and hospitals?

Does it cost a military veteran MORE...........or less for prescription medications and doctors visits at VA facilties if they are not service-connected?

I got more...............but you probably don't care about those either, right???

The nearly perfect separation between the military and the rest of the country, or at least the influential in the country, is wonderful for the war effort. It prevents concern.

It's just hidden below the surface of our everyday lives. How many people can you personally name with a college degree that even knows a soldier? Yes... some do, a few, not very many, they are a minority.

How many Americans have been on a military base? Or, to be truly absurd, how many men in combat arms went to, say, Harvard, Yale, Princeton? Ah, yes........but like Dick Cheney in the 1960s'....... they have other priorities rather than truly serving in the cause they so publically promote. What hypocrites they are.


So it is. Those who count do not have to go, and usually do not know anyone who has gone, and usually don?t interest themselves. There is a price for this, though apparently not one that it appears anyone in Washington cares about.

Across America, in places where you might not expect it?in small towns and large cities, in Legion halls and VFW posts, among those of us who carry membership cards from the Disabled American Veterans?there are men who are becoming more and more angry and finally getting fed up with the conduct of this group of right-wing fanatics in charge of the country..

These angry old soldiers don?t hate America like you and many other republican supporters claim they do. They hate those who sent them. And those who continue to send their sons and daughters, grandsons and grandaughters for all the wrong reasons. Talk to the wounded from Iraq in five years, ten years, twenty years from now. You'll see what I'm talking about.


Especially after they come back and see the way this president and his band of thugs have failed to keep their promise to maintain and improve the programs within the VA that were supposed to take care of them for the rest of their lives!

[darrels joy]

Gimpy,

Not all veterans, disabled or not, are liberal Democrats.

Some are. You are.

There are lots of veterans, disabled and not, who are conservative Republicans. There are even Independants. There are lots of people who support our troops that have college degrees and even advanced degrees. We know know some.

You spend time with people that agree with you and so you think that most people do. You could be wrong or maybe just mistaken.

And one more thing.

Those who count do not have to go, and usually do not know anyone who has gone, and usually don?t interest themselves.

Those who count are those who went and continue to go serve their country.

Your world is completely different than ours.

If you don't understand that please read http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/sh...threadid=41583

Joy

[Gimpy]

I'm sorry Joy.

But you're dead WRONG if you or any other supporter of this administration really believe that me or any other so-called "liberal" or "moderate" veterans do not support our troops.

That's just a crock of $hit.


You and others that share your ideas and mindsets seem to think it is just as simple as flag waving and showing up for some rally when the troops come home. Well............ we do that also, and MUCH more.


But, your "leaders" don't show much proof of their allegiance and dedication to their well being and their "actions" speak much louder than their words!


It's never going to be about the men and women of who have gone to Iraq and come home with combat injuries that require lifetime care.

It's going to be whether or not the really, really rich have enough tax breaks, and their crony corporatism continues unabated as flag-waving corporations take from you with one hand and send their net before-tax profits offshore with the other hand. Have you heard any more about Bush putting a stop to this practice lately?.....Didn't think so.............it's "off the radar" now that the election is over.

And how does this 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Crew, of which none of whom by the way is facing any member of their family being an immediate victim of an IED (Improvised Explosive Device) detonation REALLY feel about these troops coming home to quite a different future than was envisioned for them by the NeoCons in charge at the Pentagon?


Forget that "propaganda" bullcrap being put out by the VA on their web site about all the wonderful "increases" being suppiled by the administration in the last four years. It wasn't enough then, it isn't enough now, and they're not going to even meet last years requirements for this years budget for Gods' sake! It's just more lies & deception targeted at folks like you and others who are apparently so ill-informed and unable to "connect-the-dots" of this adminstrations nearly criminal neglect that you'd believe any thing they tell you!


Here's how they truly feel about the "troops" and the "vets"!


This is the REAL WORLD and what has been going on!


The Bush Administration's 2004 budget proposed gutting Veterans Administration (VA) services, including health care funding. Proposed cuts included: denying at least 360,000 veterans access to health care; $250 annual premiums; increased pharmacy co-payments; a 30 percent increased primary care co-payments; and increased waiting time for a first medical appointment.

...
The Bush Administration's budget proposal would have under-funded the VA by more than $2 billion. Bush's proposal would have cut the number of employees available to process disability claims, yet veterans already wait more than six months for a review of disability applications. The Bush plan for dealing with the waiting lists at VA clinics and hospitals is to reduce the number of veterans treated by the VA.

...
Last March, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a budget that included a $28.8 billion 10-year reduction in funding for veterans. The Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion and Disabled American Veterans began a letter-writing campaign to protest the reduction, so a House-Senate conference committee reduced the cut to $6.2 billion. President Bush complained that Congress needed fiscal restraint.


An army of veterans twice the size of that involved in Operation Iraqi Freedom has lost health insurance benefits since Bush took office.

As many as half a million vets are homeless.

Seven VA hospitals are being closed as part of an effort to "restructure" the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Meanwhile, veterans of the Iraq campaign can fall in line with over 250,000 veterans who are already waiting at least six months to see a doctor at the VA.


The General Accounting Office estimates that 20 percent of Army Reserve and National Guard personnel have no health insurance at all. Although Bush did not hesitate to send Reservists and National Guardsmen to face death in Iraq, he has consistently opposed any attempt to extend full benefits to them.


It says so much to hear that our Preznit Fearless One is opposed to extending full benefits to the Guard and Reserves who have served so bravely in an ill-advised war for an uncaring administration.

"Fiscal Restraint", code words for "more tax cuts", and "screw the veterans"!

I got a whole lot more of this that's PROOF of my charges, but I know y'all don't like to read "bad news" so much so I'll save it for another time!

Now, just who is it who really does not support our troops? Oh, yeah the party of "responsibility" y'all keep praising all the time.

Gimmie a freakin break!

When will you people ever WAKE UP!

[darrels joy]

But you're dead WRONG if you or any other supporter of this administration really believe that me or any other so-called "liberal" or "moderate" veterans do not support our troops.

I never said ya'll didn't support our troops.

Well............ we do that also, and MUCH more.

So do we.

I won't play studies and statistics with you. We can do that forever and I won't believe your guys and you won't believe mine.

If you want to live in a socialist state where the "rich" are taxed to take care of you for the rest of your life, all you have to do is convince the rest of us that it is a good idea.

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by darrel's joy



I won't play studies and statistics with you. We can do that forever and I won't believe your guys and you won't believe mine.

My guys????

I don't have any of "my guys"!

All I've got is the FACTS from reputable and responsible experts in determining the funds and medical health requirements needed to adequately support sick & disabled veterans and their dependents as promised by this government!

Those "experts" include:

The Disabled American Veterans
The American Legion
The Paralyzed of America
The Vietnam Veterans of America
The Military Order of the Purple Heart
The General Accounting Office of the Congress
The Retired Military Officers Association

I could go on, but it's probably pointless because you think these are "my guys", huh??

Hell..................If you'd be so inclined I'll be GLAD to show you where the Presidents OWN "Task Force" he set up in 2001 to study the problems with military Veterans health care and benefits reported back to him many, many "solutions" that he has FAILED to put into practice to solve these problems!

The Service Organizations I mentioned above are aware of these recommendations suppiled by the "Task Force" not being acted on and have brought this to Bushs' attention.

You think he cares? Evidently not, he's STILL failed to consider them for implementation to this day!

[quote]
If you want to live in a socialist state where the "rich" are taxed to take care of you for the rest of your life, all you have to do is convince the rest of us that it is a good idea.

[quote]

NO................That's NOT what me or folks like me are attempting to do.

But, OK, let me spell it out for you: George W. Bush and his entire senior administration have lied , and continue to lie, flagrantly, openly, knowingly, with full intent deceive the American public on eveything from the reasons they went to war with Iraq, Veterans Health Care & Benefits, Medicare Drug Benefits, Social Security, and on, and on, and on!


After four years, Bush's accomplishments make me and those like me shudder because our air is dirtier, our water is dirtier, our forests are thinner, our jobs are disappearing, health care costs and insurance costs are skyrocketing, our deficit is ballooning, education is more expensive, teachers are being laid off, the states are reeling from unfunded mandates, our young men and women are dying in part because Bush, Rumsfeld and others failed to give them the necessary armor (vehicles and body armor) to fight a war that was ill conceived to begin with, and yet the rich -- especially the very rich (who Bush so arrogantly calls his "base"!)-- continue to stuff their pockets with the $$$$$ (the tax cuts) that could be used to better serve the troops, the veterans and those less fortunate.


And folks like you aren't "convinced" yet ??


Are you BLIND? Or just like song says, "the ill-advised and the uninformed can be easily led astray..........and those who cannot connect the dots just look the other way"? ???? :cd: :cd:

[Andy]

I have no problem at all with your opinions, Lord knows I hear them every day from a host of people. For 8 years Bill Clinton was OUR president. I didn?t agree with some of the things he did but he was my president. It?s very sad but there are middle school as well as high school girls that are giving oral sex and ignore any criticism by simply saying, ?It?s not sex?. We all know where that came from. I?m sure you understand and would agree that the total break down of ?family? and sexual norms is as important as any legislations that gives money to Vets, farmers, the elderly or anyone else. No I?m not a prude and if I were 16 again I?d be in 7th heaven. But when two 8th graders promise to blow the entire high school basketball team if they win Fridays game and very few of the other student give it a second thought - something is wrong, very wrong.

What bothers me is that you are saying GW is someone else?s president. You don?t like him, you didn?t vote for him, and please continue to express your opinions, as I know you will. However we really are at war. There is no doubt in my mind a terrorist act will take place in OUR country, during this decade, that will make 9/11 look like a kid with a BB gun. Love him or hate him Bush is OUR president. He really is our president, the President of the USA.

Do you think we might have an altered opinion of GW and his administration if we got the intelligence briefing that he receives every morning?

At the same time there are powerful politicians that prevent good cost cutting measures. Just down the road from me is Westover Air Reserve base, the largest US reserve base in the world. 11 miles away is a Air National guard base in the city of Westfield, they have a wing of A-10?s that were in Desert Storm, Yugoslavia and have gone back to Iraq. Combine the two you?d save a lot of money and there is lots of un-used space at Westover. But close a base in Massachusetts? Senator Kennedy has prevented that from happening at lease 6 times. The money that would be saved would fully fund the VA hospitals in Massachusetts. I guess common sense, on both sides, aint very common.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[b3196]

Andy
As our once infamous president, Slick Willie said....Eat'n aint Cheat'n.......Well not exactly in those words, but thats what he meant
Bob K
P.S. I think I'll start playing basketball

[reconeil]

Hang in there.

Maybe people will start coming to their senses,
and then we'll only have foreign enemies to
contend with?

Regardless, basketball's not all that bad.

Neil

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by Andy I have no problem at all with your opinions, Lord knows I hear them every day from a host of people. For 8 years Bill Clinton was OUR president. I didn?t agree with some of the things he did but he was my president.

Nor do I have any problem with your opinions either Andy. They are always well thought out and articulated exceptionally well. And......I didn't agree with a lot of things Bill Clinton did......or said either. But, I do think he did a much better job than our current CIC .

What bothers me is that you are saying GW is someone else?s president. You don?t like him, you didn?t vote for him, and please continue to express your opinions, as I know you will. However we really are at war. There is no doubt in my mind a terrorist act will take place in OUR country, during this decade, that will make 9/11 look like a kid with a BB gun. Love him or hate him Bush is OUR president. He really is our president, the President of the USA.

No...that's really not what I'm saying. I concur that he IS "our" President, as much as I happen to dislike it trememdously. What I'm trying to say is that it I believe (and I'm evidently one of about 59,000,000 other folks who feel somewhat, if not completely similarly) it's folks who either have been "ill advised", or are somewhat "uniformed" or simply cannot "connect the dots" (now that dosen't mean I think they're stupid, uneducated or unable to adequately comprehend things) that have put him in office!

If one takes the time and thoroughly evaluates the facts and the truth of what Bush and his cohorts in mayhem have deceived the American public about these past four years it's the only logical explanation! I agree with you.......there probably WILL be another "terrorist act that will take place in OUR country, during this decade, that will make 9/11 look like a kid with a BB gun."

But, ONLY because Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc made Iraq the focal point of the war under false pretenses of WMDs' and an Al Quaeda connection to 9/11 rather than finishing the job in Afganistan. Their inability or incompetence to send enough troops to win the "occupation" of Iraq has fueled the fires of Islamic radicals to the point that there are now thousands and thousands more terrorists than there would have been.

Do you think we might have an altered opinion of GW and his administration if we got the intelligence briefing that he receives every morning?

Nope...........I STILL would think he is an arrogant, silver-spoon-fed, egotistical, selfserving lier and needs to be replaced!


Stay healthy,
Andy

Sorry, but that's how I feel!

Stay healthy as well my friend!