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Old 04-17-2002, 03:30 PM
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Default Stop Buying Gas From These Companies And Paying The Terrorists!!!!

MORTARDUDE

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :429
From :Bartlett, TN. C.S.A.
Posted 10-04-2002 at 22:44
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Saudi Arabia and other Arab nations make payments to those who blow themselves up in Israel. They are supporters of terrorists !!!


I have not researched this myself but..........this is an issues as of
> lately.....Iraq said that they would not export any oil products to the US
> until Islam left Pakistan.....that was announced on 4/7/02 on CNN Headline
> news.
>
>
> Where to buy gasoline and not support terrorism.. Actually is
> food for thought.
>
> Yisrael Medad of the Begin Center sent the following information. Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting
> more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis.
>
> Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family, and my friends. I thought it might be
> interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from. Major companies that import Middle Eastern oil (for the period 9/1/00 -8/31/01).
>
> Shell 205,742,000 barrels
> Chevron/Texaco 144,332,000 barrels
>Exxon/Mobil 130,082,000 barrels
> Marathon 117,740,000 barrels
> Amoco 62,231,000 barrels
>
> If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION!
>
> Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:
>
> Citgo 0 barrels
> Sunoco 0
> Conoco 0
> Sinclair 0
> BP/Phillips 0
>
> All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and can be easily documented. Refineries located in the U.S. are required to state where they get their oil and how much they are
> importing. They report on a monthly basis.
>
> Keep this list in your car; share it with friends. Stop paying for terrorism
> DO YOU REMEMBER LAST MAY, WHEN GAS PRICES WERE THREATENING TO GO TO $2.00 PER GALLON. I ACTUALLY PAID $2.05 PER GALLON IN OHIO. WELL, THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IT AGAIN. WE E-MAILED EVERYONE IN OUR ADDRESS BOOKS, AND ASKED EVERYONE ELSE TO DO THE SAME. WITHIN DAYS, AT THE SPEED OF
> LIGHT, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE GOT THE MESSAGE, AND GUESS WHAT?
> MYSTERIOUSLY, GAS PRICES WENT DOWN.
>
> ECONOMICS IN ACTION, SUPPLY AND DEMAND, IT WORKED!!!
>
> THE SOLUTION IS SIMPLE: WE JUST BOYCOTT EXXON AND
> MOBIL, THE TWO LEADERS IN THE INDUSTRY, AND BOYCOTT THE OTHER
> FOUR OR FIVE OIL COMPANIES THAT ARE BUYING OIL FROM THE MID EAST, AND
> WE WILL AIM A DOUBLE BARREL SHOT GUN AT THE COMPANIES THAT SUPPORT
> TERRORISM IN THE MID EAST, AND SIMPLY JUST BUY FROM THE OTHER FOUR OR FIVE COMPANIES WHO DON'T BUY OIL FROM THE MIDEST TERRORIST SUPPORTING
> COUNTRIES.
>
> THE BOYCOTT LIST:
>
> Exxon/Mobil 130,082,000 barrels (because they are the biggest)
> Shell 205,742,000 barrels
> Chevron/Texaco 144,332,000 barrels
> Marathon 117,740,000 barrels
> Amoco 62,231,000 barrels
>
> THEN WE DO BUY FROM THE FOLLOWING COMPANIES
> WHO DO NOT BUY MID EAST OIL.
>
> Citgo 0 barrels
> Sunoco 0
> Conoco 0
> Sinclair 0
> BP/Phillips 0
>
> IT IS YOUR MONEY! SPEND IT WISELY! JUST SAY NO TO MID EASTERN COUNTRIES WHO SUPPORT TERRORISM!
>
>
> WE SENT THIS OUT MAY OF 2001. AND IT WORKED!!! THE FOLLOWING WAS SENT BY AN ECONOMIST WITHIN THE FUEL INDUSTRY.ANOTHER ECONOMICS PROFESSOR AT CAL REITERATED THE SAME LAST WEEK.
> I THINK IT IS WORTH TRYING.
>
> I got this from a reliable source & the website listed is legit. We heard today from a man who is very savvy about the
> economy, namely, Clark Howard, and he says that the gas prices are going to start going up again and will be high this summer -$2.00 and up. We need to do whatever we can, and do it NOW!!!!
>
> Gasoline Prices
>
> This makes more sense than the don't buy gas on a certain day routine that was going around last year re: Gasoline Prices.
>
> Whoever started this has a good point. By now, you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.49 is cheap. Me too, as it is now $1.58 for regular unleaded!
>
> Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at less than $1.50, we need to try an aggressive response. With the
>price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take ACTION!The only way we are going to see the price
> of gas come down is if we don't buy it. But, (as the gas companies know full well, and are counting on),that's not really a practical option since we all have come to rely on our cars. But we AN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together.
> Here's the idea: For the rest of this year, don't purchase
> gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one),
> namely EXXON and MOBIL. You see, if they are not selling, they
> should be inclined, (i.e., "forced"), to reduce their prices.
> And, because of their size, and hence market share,if they reduce
> their prices the other companies will too. (They would HAVE no
> choice!). Isn't that a "juicy" prospect? But to have an impact,
> we need to reach literally millions of users. But it's do-able!
>
> I am sending this note to 42 people. If each of you send it to at
> least 10 more ...and those 10 send it to at least 10 more and so
> on, by the time the message reaches the sixth iteration, we will
> have reached over one million consumers.Acting together we
> can make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass
> this message on, or one you compose, to at least 10
> more E-mail addresses.
>
> PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO
> BELOW $1.28 - $1.29 AND KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN
> REALLY WORK!
>
> If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention
>
> UNITED WE STAND!!! ~ AMERICAN ECONOMICS IN ACTION!!!~
>
> PLEASE FORWARD THIS WITH OR WITHOUT YOUR E-MAIL
> ADDRESS TO EVERYONE IN YOU ADDRESS BOOK. AND I
> DO MEAN ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS.
> YOU WILL BE AMAZED IN THE RESULTS. THESE TERRORISTS
> HAVE COST OUR ECONOMY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
> NOW ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS STOP CONTRIBUTING TO
> THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS.
>
>
>



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Larry 81MM + 4.2" MORTARDUDE B Co. 2/22 (M) 25TH INF DIV. ( 1970 ) St. John 12-13 : This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends


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exlrrp

Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :295
From :Richmond CA
Posted 11-04-2002 at 10:35
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Altho I agree with your sentiment about the boycott, even if it was pulled off, it would never lower prices. All they would do is lower production.
In terms of what they actually can do, this Arab threat is largely BS--and i thought we weren't supposed to be doing business with Iraq, anyway--certainly I'd boycott any business I thought was dealing with them--but the Arabs need the money, ESPECIALLY Iran and Iraq--Saudi Arabia not so much. Certainly you can see that sanctions aren't crimping Saddams style if he's got enough money to finance terror and withhold oil.
The oil market is VERY complex but I think your enemy here in terms of prices are the global oil companies--most of them have production going on all over the world. we think of Alaska oil as "our" (Americans) oil but it may well wind up in Japan as well as not, for logistics reasons--its easier to ship to Japan from Alaska than Arabia--meanwhile, theyre shifting the oil around to tanke advanrage of markets--tankers have actually changed course and gone to different refineries basede on the market.
The oill companiies like you to believe that the problem is the Arabs but THEY are also the problem.this was seen in the bogus energy shortage of last spring--whatever happened to that anyway? It was just manipulative gouging a la Enron--no value added to the product, just their %age.+
But the oil companies do thid all the time. Notice how the price always jumps up day by day?, 20 cts in a week sometimes but they never come down that fast? The gas youre putting in your car today was pumped up as oil at least a year ago.
Do oil people actually try and gouge the public?
people do!

James


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Andy

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :197
From :Massachusetts
Posted 11-04-2002 at 13:28
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I'm no expert in this field, someone correct me if I'm wrong, please. But I thought oil was like beef for example. There is a certain amount of beef for sale on the world market and the price is determined by suply and demand. If Japan for example wants to buy 500,000 lbs of beef they pay the going price. If it comes from the US or Argentina or wherever, there is a price set by the market and that's what they pay.

With oil, I didn't think that the U.S. doesn't imports any from Iraq, could be wrong, but if the US doesn't buy oil from Iraq that only means that some other country that needs it pays the going price.

As far as boycotting some US companies, I'm not sure. A friend of mine from New Orleans works for Shell. He says the company is spends large dollars on R&D to drill in a vast oil field in the Gulf of Mexico. Once that project gets going we would be less dependent on the Arab world. Unless the project is stopped by the tree huggers.

Maybe the thing to do is cut consumption. Anyone who has an SUV and does not absolutely need one ought to get rid of it. Personally I'd love to see a ban on ATV's and snow mobiles. You can have fun outdoors without burning gas and making the Arabs richer.

Maybe it's also time for the government to reward car makes for coming up with more efficent vehicles or vehicles that use something other than oil-gas. If Ford was told all the R&D they do on making a reasonably sized car that gets 75 miles per gallon will not be taxed, we would have such a car.
Just a thought.

Stay healthy,
Andy


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Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :1033
From :OKLAHOMA
Posted 11-04-2002 at 14:35
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Trading With the Enemy
U.S. Refiners Reportedly Buying
Most of Iraq's Oil

By John K. Cooley

July 20 ? Even as Saddam Hussein vows to use his country's oil as a weapon in the Middle East conflict, American companies are buying most of Iraq's U.N.-approved oil exports, oil industry sources tell ABCNEWS.com



An authoritative Iraqi source says that as much as 90 percent of the actual amount of Iraq's estimated 1.8 million barrels per day (bpd) are going to U.S. Gulf coast refineries.
"Most of Iraq's oil exports in July are destined to the U.S., with a few going to Europe," reported the authoritative oil journal Middle East Economic Survey.

There's such demand for Iraqi crude in the United States, the report says, that Saddam is banking on it to mitigate the Bush administration's enmity toward his dictatorship in Iraq, and therefore, any attempts to oust him.

Works Great, Less Taxing

Sources say American refiners prefer the Iraqi Kirkuk and Basrah oil varieties, because of their low sulfur content. When they can remove the sulfur more easily, refiners can make higher profits.

Many refiners have been investing heavily in special equipment to remove sulfur from crude oil, after the Environmental Protection Agency and the Justice Department reached agreements with nine refineries last March to reduce air pollution.

As part of the deal, they also agreed to collectively pay a $9.5 million civil penalty under the Clean Air Act and spend $5.5 million on environmental projects in communities affected by the refineries' pollution, the newsletter Alexander's Gas and Oil Connections reported.

The companies are required to spend an estimated $400 million for installing pollution controls.

American refiners' thirst for Iraqi oil has been ongoing. Reuters reported on May 12, 2000, that since 1998, U.S. imports of Iraqi crude oil have doubled to 750,000 bpd, 9 percent of total U.S. oil imports.

Oil industry sources tell ABCNEWS that the U.S. companies most heavily involved at present are Chevron, Exxon-Mobil, Bayoil and Koch Petroleum, which use it in their refineries in Louisiana and Texas.

Getting it to Market

The U.S. refiners largely obtain their crude oil from Russian firms, or middlemen working through Russian firms.

"Everyone makes a commission or gets a rakeoff at every step between the Iraqi oil fields and the U.S. refineries, mostly in [the] southern U.S. states," said a knowledgeable oil industry source.

Most of the U.N.-authorized oil sales have gone to Russian private trading firms as a reward for Moscow's pro-Iraqi positions in the U.N. Security Council, MEES editors said.

"Large volumes of crude are being taken away from previous customers and assigned to new [Russian] ones," MEES reported July 16.

This month, Russia stymied a U.S. attempt to revise U.N. sanctions against Iraq to focus on blocking military imports by vetoing it in the Security Council.

Watching the Money Trail

Iraq's preference for Russian traders is becoming evident from the region's oil tanker traffic, sources say.

Of the two main ports used by Iraq to exports its "legal" oil, the one used by Russian traders has been seeing much more use.

America's refiners are getting most of their Iraqi oil from Ceyhan, Turkey, the terminus of a pipeline between Kirkuk and Ceyhan, because loading Iraqi crude oil there cuts out the need for supertankers to steam all the way around the Arabian Peninsula.

The other port, Mina-al-Bakr, a big offshore loading platform in the Persian Gulf off the Iraqi port of Basrah, has seen use decline sharply in recent months.

That port is mainly used by supertankers bound for Asia. Iraq's main customers using this port include India, China, Japan and Malaysia, oil industry sources say
abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/iraq010720_cooley.html



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The LT said: "Keep Movin"


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arrow

Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :1033
From :OKLAHOMA
Posted 11-04-2002 at 17:43
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everything you wanted to know about US oil imports but were afraid to ask..

www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/usa.html



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The LT said: "Keep Movin"


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sfc_darrel

Registered to :Jan 19, 2002
Messages :128
From :
Posted 11-04-2002 at 23:49
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Can we please go nuclear?
It wouldn't give us more gasoline but power plants run on gas, coal and OIL!
Joy


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phuloi

Registered to :Aug 24, 2001
Messages :358
From :Sequim,Wa.
Posted 12-04-2002 at 02:47
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Congress noted this week that the United States last year paid Iraq about $6.58 billion for oil - money Iraqi President Saddam Hussein is no doubt now using to pay, at $25,000 a pop, to the families of each Palestinian suicide bomber.
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War is fear cloaked in courage...... Westmoreland...Peace..Griz


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Melsbells

Registered to :Jan 02, 2002
Messages :21
From :Texas
Posted 12-04-2002 at 10:47
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The so called reason we buy oil from Iraq is that there is something like a food for oil program. Who wants to bet none of it gets to the people of Iraq.


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exlrrp

Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :295
From :Richmond CA
Posted 12-04-2002 at 13:20
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[quote]
On 2002-04-11 13:28, Andy wrote:
I'm no expert in this field, someone correct me if I'm wrong, please. But I thought oil was like beef for example. There is a certain amount of beef for sale on the world market and the price is determined by suply and demand. If Japan for example wants to buy 500,000 lbs of beef they pay the going price. If it comes from the US or Argentina or wherever, there is a price set by the market and that's what they pay."

yeah its like that sorta but bigger like any other fairly free wordwide commodity the producers are fairly fractured, don't all act cohesively.
The supply of beef is much more a national market and fairly finite, at least on the short term level--can't slaughter em all and expect continuity--but the supply of oil is only restricted by your pumping and refining capacity. And political situation, . Iraq can't go out and raise a million more beeves tommorrow but they can pump a million barrels in a few days on a lot less capital investment
Disbelieve any idea that the major oil companies are American companies--they are not, they are owned worldwide and they only owe their loyalties to their stock owners--unless, of course their wells are threatened--THEN theyre Americans.
Oil is bought and sold in lots and in futures, the same as porkbellies, corn or other commodities. Oil companies were once completely vertically integrated (owned it and processed it from the oil pump to the gas pump) Now, because of anti trust and the emergence of the Arab world, they are broken up into smaller operations but the stockholdrs are the same and the management.
now they play a shell game with oil, moving it around according to markets. Right this minute, Shell Oil(originally a Dutch company) may be moving oil from Alaska to japan, from indonesia to Australia, venezuela to the US, Arabia to South Africa, Britains North Sea to Canada--this is all happening today!! If iraq won't sell to us, then britain can increase production in the North Sea. or we in Alaska. I worked on The Pipeline there in 76 and I think the state of the art technology is such as could be done environmentally. but believe this--this will have no effec t on the market for year, a decade to come. and we're talking about a very small % here anyway.
G Bush should be putting as much emphasis on conservation as exploration --THAT never fails to bring prices down, betters technology.

" Unless the project is stopped by the tree huggers."

when I get done with this I'm going out and hug the nearest tree. I love the trees in my neighborhood, they make it pretty and break up what would otherwise be just buildings and junk cars on peoples lawns. They also block oout the graffitti on the sound wall across the street I can walk out my back door and in 7 blocks am in a valley park that goes on for miles.
Thanks, tree hugging liberals, for ALL the parks in the country and the fights you had with all the PEOPLE OF OTHER POLITICAL PERSUASIONS to make them so. it was worth doing.

"Maybe the thing to do is cut consumption. Anyone who has an SUV and does not absolutely need one ought to get rid of it. Personally I'd love to see a ban on ATV's and snow mobiles. You can have fun outdoors without burning gas and making the Arabs richer. "

This is my thought: how can there be a serious oil shortage when there's monster truck racing on TV nearly every night? And all the other racing they do?they could have old fashioned horse and plow races and be more environmental, but noooooooo, that aint as noisy and exciting.
Conservation--cuting consumption ALWAYS brings prices down and is our best weapon against Arab domination. When demand decreases (and the US demand is highest by far) they have no place to sell and their income drops. then the bottom falls out of the market as each country scrambles to sell its oil.
Yet conservation--yes, that means restrictions and regulations--is only a minor part of the current energy package--is that because conservation hits the bottom line of oil companies and certain HIGHLY PLACED POLITICIANS owe major favors to oil companies for their major donations to him? I'd hate to think so, yet the current message is:"Go on out and enjoy yourself same as always," not "lets hunker down and sacrifice a little and maybe not drive so much, stay home more?" Not a good political message from one who promised to better things--it was Economic Partytime the whole last administration, no war, no recession, no shit.

"Maybe it's also time for the government to reward car makes for coming up with more efficent vehicles or vehicles that use something other than oil-gas. If Ford was told all the R&D they do on making a reasonably sized car that gets 75 miles per gallon will not be taxed, we would have such a car.
Just a thought."
Theyre already doing it thanks to the pesky ol environmentalists, I see these new hybrids that get 75 mpg around town. they could do it already (steam and electric perhaps?) but as I say, it wouldn't look good on the oil companies bottom line--a major influence here.
Tax breaks? All R & D of auto manufacturers HAS to be a write off. no, I think this will come from another young Henry Ford or Thomas Edison. Hope theyre out there in the garage right now.

James

Happy just to be alive

]


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Hoyin

Registered to :Mar 25, 2002
Messages :39
From :California
Posted 12-04-2002 at 14:47
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I agree! Wake up and smell the gasoline fumes. Yes an oil shortage/crisis would hurt..but I will stand in line and pay through the nose if it will wake the auto industry (that is currently blocking the proliferation of alternative transporations)
and the nation.
Then, maybe we can just thumb our noses at the arab world and let them have their jihads as long as they choose.
In fact I dont think Iraq has any idea what they could be stepping into here. I dont really know what Iran could be thinking..but Saudi cant really afford to lose buyers and they seem to know it. C'mon..they need the money for the state mandated mosques (you know the ones that preach hatred of American to its young men.)
Getting out my gas can and my tennis shoes!

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Mongol Dai!


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Andy

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :197
From :Massachusetts
Posted 13-04-2002 at 13:50
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A comment on ?Tree Huggers?. Massachusetts is a small state with a fair amount of people. There isn?t open land here as there is in some states. Our family has owned 219 acres for about 120 years now. Except for one house,two barns and quite a number of stone fences the land is pristine.

This year we decided to thin 12 acres, mostly ash, maple and a little pine. We wouldn?t let the lumber guys cut anything smaller than 18? diameter trees on that one section. Our conservative family has been protecting this land on our own for a long time. However, to do the cutting we had to draw up an 8 page cutting plan, have it checked by a lawyer and then submit it to the state department of tree huggers. They sent a woman out from Boston who didn?t know the difference between a sugar maple and an oak but she had to approve the plan and we had to pay her a fee. We will also be required to pay a special forestry tax on top of the long term capital gains taxes.

There are lots of us who love the outdoors. However protecting the trees can be done without the official tree huggers and all the paperwork and money we have to spend to keep them in a job. The term tree hugger does not mean a true environmentalist just like the word owner doesn?t mean slum lord. Beside, land owners ALWAYS have more common sense.

James, as far as the rest of your post, no disagreement except about the 75 MPG cars. Ford and GM are not what they once were. If a full sized Ford or Buick could get 75 MPG, don't you think they'd run Toyota right off the map? I can't see that hurting the oil companies, they'll just discover that it costs twice as much to refine the sulfur out of the gas. Ya think I got it wrong???

Stay healthy,
Andy



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exlrrp

Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :295
From :Richmond CA
Posted 15-04-2002 at 09:07
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Tree huggers--a dittohead word--sorta like saying the word "niggers"-- just means someone you don't like.
but its the tree hugging environmentalists like John Muir and T Roosevelt (republican) who created the parks that we all enjoy. Conservative republicanism would have "developed" them--thats good for business.
"Seen one redwood tree and youve seen them all " Ronald Reagan

Re: 75 mph cars--there is no advancement in technology that won't be coopted and used by industry. but they won't make environmental priogress without governmental prodding--its not as sexy as heated seats. But they have 75 mph cars now--and when everyones got em, they'll just squeeze us some other way, no doubt.
Whatever happened to the Stanley Steamer concept? those suckers would run on grain alcohol or whatever--this country can make a LOT of alcohol. saw one that ran on coal the other day

James


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exlrrp

Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :295
From :Richmond CA
Posted 15-04-2002 at 09:44
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Andy--email me something so I have your address--when I push the button it asks me for mey microsooft password which I don't know.
Thanks
James


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SEATJERKER

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :239
From :NY (upper)
Posted 15-04-2002 at 09:56
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...both correct...
...common sense tells us that conservation is the best answer, and along with long term R+D, but how can each, and every family do it...simple, cut back the short trips that are not nesc. how long would it take if all participated before we start squeezing them into realizing that America is making a serious effort to self sufficient....days, weeks, a year...more....
...I don't have the answers, but have made sure that all my ve"hic"les are running in the best possible manner as to cut useage...
...tree huggers do have a place, and it is important, BUT there is that all familer "red tape" that goes with their baggage, and it seems to be never ending, I'm all for less pollution, and protecting the envirment, BUT, when it adds up to more then the "common man/women can manage", and still prosper for the good of their family, it defeats other surrounding principals...meaning...when it costs for lawyers that (as Andy said, doesn't know a Oak from a Suger Maple) have no real idea what their doing, and more, and more paper trails, and time consumption equals waste, no matter how you slice it...
...kinda like what my father says on occasion..
..."when your up to your ass in alligators, it is diffuclt to remind yourself that the initial objective was to drain the swamp"...
...what is more important... to drain the swamp,(why), for more "farm" land to grow food, or for a SHOPPING MALL... or the fact that your up to your ass in paperwork, and lawyers holding you back from completing other work otherwise needed to "live the American dream"...
...If America would really reach down for a cinching one notch on the belt on all fronts of the "energy crisis" it wouldn't take as long as you'd think to cut back on gas usage, and electric etc...
... so do we live as we are, or do we keep letting the Oil nations rule us...
...get off your ass, make sure your cars, and trucks are properly "tuned up, and especially make sure TIRE PRESSURE is proper for your vehicle, and I don't mean what printed on the side of the tire also, that to me is just a reference as every vehicle is different... I see front wheel cars with scrub marks along the sidewalls every day, and the people say" that's the manufactures recommend...Bullshit... look at your tires, and bring them up to even over that "35 lb" rating if you have one of those "custom vans loaded to the hilt"... I had my plow truck tires at "48", and got 15 mpg's on a 78 when all was runnig well... people ride too "mushy" losing ???what 15% of their mileage...one lb. of pressure low causes you to LOSE 4 miles to the gallon depending on the whale you drive...
... always run lean, TUNE UP, TUNE UP, TUNE UP IS THE ONLY WAY FOR THE AMERICA TO LONG TERM BEAT THE GAS CRUNCH...
...meant to add... the single most important piece in your car/truck if it has a distributer is the CAP, AND ROTOR,...It is the one place that there isn't a "solid" connection is there in your electrical system... that little rotor spins around on a shaft, and it sends the electric to the spark plugs but the 1000th separation is where they corrode... change your cap, and rotor,wires, and buy a good one and make sure you get a "brass" electrodes on each, they work better then the cheap ones...



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Egress// Last chance for life


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Paco

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :89
From :Confederate States of America
Posted 15-04-2002 at 10:16
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Andy,

I'm appalled that you think that only people that need them should have SUV's. What's next, only people that NEED kids should be allowed? This is America and if I want to own a Monster Truck or a friggin' Yugo, that's MY CHOICE. If I buy one, and fuel goes up to $20 a gallon, it's my choice to pay it or not. Maybe we could really save fuel if we get rid of all the commercial jets, passenger and cargo, those fuel wasteing Cruise Ships, and go back to busses and sails. Give me a break ol' buddy. Just cause' you got rid of your truck I'm keepin' mine even though "I might not need it", at least 100% of the time. I think we can all come up with luxuries that we all don't need, but have. Isn't that what America's all about? Just a question, how much energy did you waste as a cop with all that idle time on the engines? Shouldn't we just go back to pounding a beat?

Packo

ps Not really mad at you.......just thought what you said was a bit silly and I'm surprised nobody else picked up on it.


Andy

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :197
From :Massachusetts
Posted 15-04-2002 at 13:42
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Packo:
Of course, you are right. A long time ago a judge told me, We live in a democracy. That means every man has a perfect right to make an ass of himself. I've exercised that right numerous times. Outlawing "toys" that burn a lot of gas is unAmerican.

Perhaps I should have said anyone owning an oversized pickup or SUV who isn't require to, is making people like Sadam rich, just for the hell of it. And if they complain about the price of gas, or Sadam sending 25 grand to the families of suicide bombers, or building nasty toys of his own, they need to take a long look in the mirror. But you are right, I over stated my point.

By the way, the last pickup I owned was just a 4 banger. Now the Mustang I used to have, the one with the Holly 4 barrel, that sucker would pass anything BUT a gas station. Shame on me but I did enjoy it.

As far as cruisers sitting on the side of a road, your right, big waste of gas. I'd tell you I started a policy of "Park & Walk & Talk" which may have saved a little gas. However in the summer, crusing the upscale neighborhoods that all have back yard pools and ladies in bathing suits, Guilty as charged!

Stay healthy,
Andy




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exlrrp

Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :295
From :Richmond CA
Posted 15-04-2002 at 20:42
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"Packo:
Of course, you are right. A long time ago a judge told me, We live in a democracy. That means every man has a perfect right to make an ass of himself. I've exercised that right numerous times. Outlawing "toys" that burn a lot of gas is unAmerican.

Perhaps I should have said anyone owning an oversized pickup or SUV who isn't require to, is making people like Sadam rich, just for the hell of it. And if they complain about the price of gas, or Sadam sending 25 grand to the families of suicide bombers, or building nasty toys of his own, they need to take a long look in the mirror. But you are right, I over stated my point. "
very well put, andy. re: all this stuff. i hate to say it but this is why we're in debt to the Arabs--conspicuous consumption--yep--aint no Ayrab agonna keep ME away from my SUV till they pry my cold dead hands offen the steering wheel (i drive a Legacy.)
its my birthright as a Califonian to drive around in hot cars the rest of the world drools over, from Chula Vista to Pelican bay.
Oh no, we won't see conservation anytime soon with GWB as leader--or price controls on gas either--well I put 10--20 miles a day on my bicycle anyway. I'm going to ride the train to Sacramento next week---also re: trains--better ride them while you can, especially the cross country ones, they will be history this year, judging from what I read about the budget (not the NE Corridor)

james



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Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :1033
From :OKLAHOMA
Posted 15-04-2002 at 20:48
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I'm with Packo...I loved my truck! RIP I do miss it. Sure felt a whole lot safer in it than the small cars I have owned. There is somthing that is very scary about running down the interstate side by side a eighteen wheeler and looking over to see a tire doin 80 mph that looks as big as what you are drivin!

Anywho my real complaint is the idea that they want to put a tax on my twenty oz cokes..now "them" are fightin' words!!!




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The LT said: "Keep Movin"


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Paco

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :89
From :Confederate States of America
Posted 16-04-2002 at 09:34
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Sorry guys but SUV'S funding Sadamn and Homicide bombers is a big stretch. Actually it's about the most ridiculous thing I've heard today. (can't say "in a while" cause' all ya got to do is watch a tv news program and all you hear is ridiculous things). Yes, lets blame the oil problem on the people. Yep, it's us middle class people driving modern station wagons that are causing all the problems. Oh, yeah, James...didn't see much conserving going on during Klintons reign....but guess that don't count. Actually, why didn't he immediately, while he had a demoncrat congress, get a bill passed to force the auto companies to have standards dramatically raised by such in such time? Must have been a vast right wing conspiracy. To me, and just my humble opinion, the bed wetters in this country have eliminated nuclear power and coal as vivable forms of energy, although coal is making a comeback, and have forced many power companies to rely on oil.

I'm not going to go on and on with this, but just surfice it to say, I sleep well at night driving my V-8 Dodge and don't feel I'm supporting anything having to do with terrorism. I'm not going to feel guilty about a bunch of crap that's been going on for years and will not end any time soon. If I could afford to buy one, I'd be driving a 426 Hemi Super Stock Dodge with 2- 4's. And to everyone who thinks I'm supporting terrorist......(I'm making a funny sound with my tounge like Archie Bunker used to)

Friend of Big Oil, Big Tobacco, and Big Moonpie.

Packo :


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exlrrp

Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :295
From :Richmond CA
Posted 16-04-2002 at 10:33
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blaming Saddam and terrorism on gas guzzlers is a real hyperbolic stretch. but it can be safely said that the power the Arabs hold over us is due to our own voracious appetites as well described here, theyre just chargeing whatever the market will bear a la John Rockefeller and the other American Monopolists did-they learned form the best.
We set up the situation through our own demands. haveing the Arabs hold control over us is part of the price we pay at the pump.if we cut down, they wouldn't--oh well.
thats one of the things I love about sailing--elemental--they can't charge me for the wind. Bicycling, too, its not the Arabs I'm free of, its the whole system.
but our whole society is set up on oil--why can't they figure out how to get oil from coal? The Germansr did in WWII, even got a decent aviation gas out of it. Anybody know how they did this?
James



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larrysearight

Registered to :Aug 22, 2001
Messages :93
From :Simi Valley, CA.
Posted 16-04-2002 at 11:54
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My $.02 worth.

2 or 3 weeks ago when I asked on the board what the gas prices were, California was leading the pack as usual. Most cars, depending the area, the mass transit sucks. People still have to drive to get to work. Then the state is no dummie either, they have so much tax on a gallon its a joke. They are all on the band wagon.

I remember the first gas shortage in 1973. Took the price from $.30 or so up to over $.50 a gallon. Had the odd even plan for getting gas and could only get 10 gallons at one time. People took all this very seriously and were not driving, the out lying areas were screaming for people to travel and would do what ever to get you to travel. That summer, being I hadn't been back to Minnesota in 3 years to see my parents we drove our new Pinto station wagon back. Was very cocerned about getting gas. I remember getting gas at the first station which was in Neveda. Ask the guy what it looked like for getting gas. His answer, he looked at the platwe and saw California and laughed. He said you can get all the gas you want and the stations are open 24 hour.

Then the gas shortage of 1975. Cars were now using unleaded gas. What was the first gas they were out of? Unleaded.

This trip that was planned, "M" 3/5 reunion, was kicking it back and forth weather to go or not, finally said screw it this old Marine is going. If I need to suck on some oxygen I'll turn on the generator on the motor home to run the machine. Will keep the bottles as backup. I'm going to have fun don't know how many years will be around.

Looks like this turned out to be a $.25 worth, sorry about that.

Semper Fi,
Larry


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Paco

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :89
From :Confederate States of America
Posted 16-04-2002 at 12:19
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One of the reasons that we rely on Arab oil is that it is cheaper than ours. Most people don't know that we have tons of oil, capped off at the wells, in Oklahoma and Texas. Oil can be safely taken from the Gulf of Mexico, and we still have Alaska and the Anwar (?). Folks, it's a bunch cheaper to have some Arab worker get it than our own Union Labor. Now, not against unions, was a Teamster, United Mine Worker, United Steel Worker (twice), but I also from having been on the inside seen how crazy all that union stuff was. I should have been fired from 3 of the 4 union jobs I had but the company couldn't do it. I'm not going to get into all the ridiculous stuff but sufice it to say that companies took advantage of workers, then unions took advantage of companies. Now, back to oil......as long as Arab oil is cheaper, and the oil companies can't get at the oil because of environmentalist, (not against protecting the environment, but come on, there is a whole lunitic fringe out there that wants us to go back to being cave people), we're gonna buy A-RAB oil. Oh, and look outside, gas prices are falling again. Hopefully we will start drilling for more and uncapping what we got. Ain't holdin' my breath under ANY administration.

Did I mention that Spotted Owl tastes a little bit like Bald Eagle?

Packo


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Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :1033
From :OKLAHOMA
Posted 16-04-2002 at 12:26
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Regard consumption. Yeah lets blame it all on US.

Everything that is happening in the Middle East is our fault.

Let's narrow it down. Let's just blame it on my daughter.

She started working seriously when she was 15 years old. Took care of three kids 12 to two years old. Eight hours a day forty hours a week while the neighbor went to work that was the summer she was 15.

She turned 16 in August and went to work at a local Ice Cream place she worked in the evenings and on weekends while going to school. She worked at Arbys for a while I remember getting up one morningt 3:00 going to look for her because she had not come home from her job. I went around to the back door of the establishment as her car was back there. Looking in the back door I saw my sixteen year old 98 lb little girl with a mop in her hands moppin the freakin' floor at 3:00 am on school night. Needless to say the manager got his ass chewed out by one mad mama.

So back to the ice cream store where they at least let them out of there by midnight.

She worked her way through high school, she worked almost full time while going to college, She had a car accident her last semester. She took a break from school found a full time job and returned to school at night driving more than a hundred miles round trip to finish her education.

She now has a wonderful job. She makes damn good money. She owns her own home. She drives a nice car. She travels, she give unselfishly to people around her.

But let's face it folks she is living the American Dream so she is to blame for what is happening in the Middle East. She is fueling the fires of terror.

Shame on her and every hardworking, taxpaying, middle class, man and woman and child of these United States of America for reaping the rewards of their labor. How very unsocialistic of them!

And somone needs to kick my ass for raising such a despicable human being!

Well what do you expect from an Okie? We're just to dumb to figure it all out!






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The LT said: "Keep Movin"


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Andy

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :197
From :Massachusetts
Posted 16-04-2002 at 13:18
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Arrow,
You and your daughter are what America is supposed to be all about. Work hard, do the right thing, take responsibility for your actions. Unfortunately our country as a whole seems to have gotten a little odd. A place where someone can smoke cigarettes with a warning on the pack from the Surgeon General saying this stuff could kill you, then when the person gets seriously ill, they sue the tobacco company, and try to ignore their own actions. Not long ago a guy shot himself with a .38 hand gun. He sued Smith & Wesson because when he pulled the trigger the gun went off and shot HIM. It seems a lot of people don?t wants to take any responsibility for their own actions. Did you know hair dryers come with a label saying, don?t use this in the shower? (Of course you did.) Which of course means someone did and someone sued.

When there is a big problem just a few of us middle classers will not make a difference. But we are a nation with a larger middle class than most anywhere. I don?t like blaming others for my own mistakes, (unless I?m sure I can get away with it). I?d rather be part of a group taking responsibility and urging others to do what?s appears to be best for them. OK, I?m not the all knowing one and opinions are like butts, everyone?s got one, but sometimes things just appear to make sense.

None of us and our vehicles are directly paying for suicide bombers. But if your figures are right, and I presume they are, then We, as in America, are paying for all sorts of nasty things, even if only vicariously. We need to use less oil, drill more (sorry James), and use alternative sources. Otherwise Arab potentates will continue to increasingly take our money and use it in a manner, not in our own best interest.

James, thanks for buying the sail boat. Using disposable income on manufactured goods really helps the economy. As far as riding 20 miles on your bike - oh that?s nice. It?s supposed to be near 90 degrees today. However, I?ll go for a long walk and probably leave a grease slick in my wake, you guilted me into it.

Lets change the subject, lets talk about something light hearted. Are there any new strains of VD?

Stay healthy,
Andy




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Paco

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :89
From :Confederate States of America
Posted 16-04-2002 at 13:54
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Sis,

I don't think you need a good ass kickin', but can we talk about a good spanking?


Packo


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Sgt_Tropo

Registered to :Aug 23, 2001
Messages :65
From :Houston, TX (Space City)
Posted 16-04-2002 at 14:09
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I agree that there are many alternatives to petroleum based fuels for cars / trucks, etc. as the LRRPster said, "Bring back the Stanley Steamer." there was a show on the History Channel not too terribly long ago, which featured a gentlemen in England who was trying to start up an auto manufacturing plant building steam powered cars. Unfortunately, it seems that all of the so called "venture capaltilists" and other financiers suddenly were nowhere to be found. (Imagine that!). When this man presented his designs and concepts to FORD, GM, daimer-Benz and others, they all turned him down. He then tried to scrap togehjter enough moneyb to buiold the cars on his own (shades of John DeLorean !). Unfortunately, he only built three of his steam cars and never could find the required financing to make his steam cars a reality.
One more thing. His cars were tested and found to accelerate from 0 - 60 only a second slower than conventional powered cars of like size. They were however, found to be able to go 1500 miles on a gallon of gas, which was needed to power the burner to create the steam. Let's see now, any idea as to why the oil companies might want to do what ever was required to see that this steam venture failed ?!?

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Sgt Tropo Vietnam Vet 1969 - 1971 An Khe, Pleiku, Quin Nhon, Cam Rahn Bay 1st Sig Brig/43rd Sig Bat/362 Sig Co 4th Inf / 1st Air Cav


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Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :1033
From :OKLAHOMA
Posted 16-04-2002 at 16:44
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Andy et al that are pro alternative energy solutions I don't disagree.

When you all come up with an idea to do the switch over with out bringing down our economic system let us know.

I am wondering how far we would have come if our economy had been built around the bicycle instead of the internal combustion engine. Say what you will but we have all reaped the rewards of this oil driven economy we grew up in.

Packo the last guy that tried to spank me was the kid's daddy he couldn't catch me cause I was a better tree climber than he was...
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The LT said: "Keep Movin"


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exlrrp

Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :295
From :Richmond CA
Posted 17-04-2002 at 13:45
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Re: union labor.

"if you can only do one thing, join the union"
been there, done that had the t shirt but gave up my union status when I got my CA Contractors license. Union carpenter and pipe fitter, oh yes. Sometimes driving thru town I want to stop and ask" Do you know how shtfaced I was when I framed this house?" I got fired from union jobs, you had to work at it but possible, no error.

James

Spotted Owl tastes like eagle? i thought it tasted like rattlesnake


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exlrrp

Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :295
From :Richmond CA
Posted 17-04-2002 at 14:00
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Some of you know I have a model train layout (anybody else?) with steam engines so i am biased in this.
I thought the old stanley steamers were cool, and FAST--they were the hottest thing going around WWI and thru the 20s, held all the speed records. The Stanleys wrapped their boilers completely in cable, tried to blow one up but couldn't. theyre a LOT simpler than gas engines, a lot less moving parts, can be made to run on anything burnable.
The show I watched said that one of the things that killed it was that the shortest time they could get to start it was 3 minutes---most people wouldn't wait that long. you also have to stop for water more than gas.
If you ran it on natural gas or clean burning alcohol, it would be a LOT less polluting. Might hook one of them up to a generator but PG&E would probly send hitmen
My girlfriends hot tub is run partially by solar.
You CAN beat the system

it occurred to me that some of you guys physical conditioning might preclude bicycling and am sorry if I mentioned it--don't mean to lord it --just feel lucky.

James

happy just to be alive


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exlrrp

Registered to :Aug 21, 2001
Messages :295
From :Richmond CA
Posted 17-04-2002 at 14:15
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(sorry to make 3 posts in as row but sequential thought sometimes comes slowly)

My older brothers best friend is the Chair of the Engineering Dept at Chico State. Every year, they have a nationwide serious contest among engineering students, who can come up with a vehicle that will get the most MPG. This is done on a flat track.
The Winner last year? guess!
Over 640 mpg.
they can do it faster than the oil will run out and we may start to see it in our life time. But the oil companies will just jump on to the next bal breaker.

James

Happy just to be alive
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