Report

[inhonurofswa]

I have to write an essay about something that is close to my heart, and I am writing based on my uncle and other Vietnam Veterans, and what they are dealing with and issues they dealt with back then and issues they are dealing with now. So I was just hoping that some of you guys will help me, I'll take anything, just some opinions about anything back when the war started, while you were over there, problems that you are dealing with now. I hope I am not over stepping my boundaries, I just thought for this report I needed to get more Veterans opinions and since I have access to the is wonderful website I thought that this would be a very useful tool. I want this report to come across as something that none of my fellow classmates would ever expect, and I want to open their eyes to history that is very important, so again if you have time just let me know some things and I DEEPLY APPRECIATE all the help that will be received. Thanks

Taylor

[Robert Ryan]

I can only give you the historical reasons for the war. It was alleged that North Vietnamese Gun Boats attack two US Destroyers in the Tonkin Gulf. The USS Maddox, and the USS Turner Joy. It has yet to be proven these attacks did happen form what I can gather. This led to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution which gave President Johnson a "blank check" to wage war and retaliate against North Vietnam for these attacks. President Johnson ordered the bombing of North Vietnam military installations after this. Accroding to my VA calendar March 2, 1965 is when the Vietnam War started. However prior to this date there were many advisors in Vietnam that had been in combat, and there were American Casualties before this March 2nd date. Marines were sent into Vietnam after the bombing to "protect American interests in South Vietnam', such as the Air Station in Da Nang. From that point on, the war escalated to where the United States was conducting offensive operations in South Vietnam. The book, the 10,000 days war will give you a real good prospective on this War. Anothe book is the Vietnam War Almanac. You can go on line and possibly find a site that will cover a day by day, month by month account of the war. The only problems I have now with Vietnam issues are the loss of friends, and how I have learned to managed these feelings now with the help of my fellow veterans and through Counseling for PTSD.

[39mto39g]

inhonurofswa
Be a little more specific and you will get answers.
I was worried about not getting my Black Label beer ration, And watching the caskets with the flags over then being loaded. When guys that have been in combat pass you, theres no need to ask, It's in there eyes.

[DMZ-LT]

on the home page scroll down to " Most Read Articles " Click on some of the names and you will see what they wrote about the war. Start with Tom Andrzejczyk , he just passed away from Agent Orange induced cancer. He wrote we all appreciated agent orange for beating back the jungle along the roads and if that saved even one of the guys in his platoon he would die38 years later with no regrets. Me to. Darn sandstormes

[MORTARDUDE]

Taylor :

Just some observations about my experiences. The period in U.S. history from 1965 - 1972 was marked not only about much bitterness and protest about the war in Vietnam, but also during that period there were many riots and protests due to Civil Rights. This served to make the situation even more difficult.

The Vietnam War was fought by drafting young men to fight. Draft means you are selected by a board to go either in the Marines or the U.S. Army for 2 years. In my unit ( Co. B 2/22(M) 25th Infantry Division ), over 75% of the trigger pullers ( MOS 11C and 11 B ) were drafted. I know this from looking at a list of those that received awards, where most of the Company was listed. Those that were drafted had "US" in front of their service number.

This is completely different from the situation you have in Iraq today where there is an all volunteer service. By 1972, the U.S. Army was in a very bad situation. Another situation that happened, was that due to a lack of NCOs ( sergeants ), schools were started in USA where folks out of basic and AIT training would go to school to learn to be sergeant. After a period of time they would be sent to Vietnam to be in charge of troops who had been in in-country for many months. I saw many of these folks get killed or wounded in our unit, shortly after arriving incountry.

As in any war, you fight for those next to you. Many of us forged bonds under fire that will last for the rest of our lives.

My point is that there was great unrest in the Army. The War was fought as well as could be expected, even with all of this.

As someone above stated, the reason for the War was a lie.

As veterans, after getting out of the service, we faced scorn from many people for having anything to do with the War. This included WW2 veterans who were in the VFW and the American Legion. The VA ( Veteran's Adminstration ) was substandard in those days. There was no such thing as PTSD ( Post Traumatic Stress Disorder ) in the psychiatric handbook. Groups of Vietnam veterans started getting together and talking about their experiences and this eventually led to this being recognized by the psychiatric establishment.

For veterans, it was in many ways a sad time in US history.

On the other hand, anytime you hear someone say that we lost the War, just let them know, that it is not true. The US Congress cut funding for those they had sworn, thru treaty obligations, to protect. They cut and ran so fast that many, many thousnads of those who had fought and bled with us, were discovered, tortured, and murdered because of it. In the neighboring countries of Cambodia and Laos, millions were murdered after 1975 also. This was the aftermath of the war.

I hope this is useful. Be advised this is my opinion, based on what I have saw and heard.

Larry

Larry (MORTARDUDE) made some good points. Maybe I can expand and add a bit.

It's a shame your report came about a year late to catch Andy. He was one of our best and brightest and very big into helping folks understand the lessons that can be learned from Vietnam.

[Packo]

Actually Larry, your right that there were a substantial number of draftees in 11, Infantry, MOS, BUT, per capita, there were more volunteers during the Vietnam War than WWII. Some was patriotism, some to get a better MOS, but most because their fathers had served in WWII and this was our war, so we went.

Dan, (Pighumper), James, Frisco, LT, Sid, and I, just to name a few on this site, were all volunteers and in Combat Arms.

Pack

As John noted it was Agent Orange that finally got Andy. It's one hell of a note to die from a war 30-40 years after it's over. And every year it gets a few more of us.

OK. So let's talk a bit about those things that were unique(to one extent or another) to Vietnam and made that war an especially tough one to fight.

Leadership:
Larry has already mentioned "shake&bake" NCO's. An NCO that leads men in combat NEEDS to have had combat experience and have experience with, knowledge of, and the respect of, the men he's leading into combat. There just really isn't any substitute for these things.
The above is also true for officers and the situation may even have been worse where they are concerned because they were constantly being moved into and out of leadership positions. The result(for those who survived) was that just about the time they became a competent leader-and the unit began acting like the team they were supposed to be-they were put behind a desk somewhere and the unit was stuck with some green guy fresh from OCS who didn't know a bush from a bayonet.

Instead of allowing the military to do it's job there was a very great deal of micro-management in Vietnam by politicians who had (apparently) never even HEARD OF a bush or a bayonet.
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Individual replacement:
This has to have been the worst idea was ever come up with by the paper-pushers. I think it was supposed to be more "cost effective"(might have been as far as money goes; but not lives).
In the the traditional way of doing things a unit trains together, becomes a team, and then goes to war together. When they were withdrawn they went home as a unit. Many of us were sent to Vietnam as individuals and then plugged into whatever unit needed warm bodies. When your time was up you went home by yourself. leaving the guys whose backs you were watching to make do as best they could. Did you dare try to find out later if they were OK? What if they were dead because you were no longer there doing your job? Talk about survivors' guilt! When our units were "brought home" those with any appreciable time left in their tours went instead to other units needing warm bodies.
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Pressure:
It's no news to anybody that wars tend to be somewhat stressful. This is true of any war. But in most wars a soldier is able to believe that he has the support and best wishes of the folks he is told that he's fighting for. Many of us had very good reason to believe that the average American citizen hated our guts, and that the government and military could care less about our welfare as long as we did what we were told. If not they actively hated our guts too. Enemies in front, enemies behind, enemies all around. Any wonder we formed such strong bonds? We were all we had. Then we (some of us) came home. We weren't heroes but we had a right to be proud of who we were and what we had done. We had stood up and put our lives on the line doin what we were directed to do just the same as those men who created this country and have routinely paid the price to keep it free. But nobody cared or wanted to know. Most of us got the message pretty quickly that we would be tolerated only so long as we kept quiet. Not good.

[MORTARDUDE]

Pack :

I have read the volunteer stats too. I don't know how they came up with them, but anyway...

As I said, I have an awards order which listed nearly everyone in the Company I was in, and as I recall, over 75% were draftees. So, I can only speak from my experience. This was in 1970. I will dig up the order and give you the exact number.

Larry

[MORTARDUDE]

Ok, I found some morning reprts / rosters posted on line that show the composition of rifle companies.

they are at http://www.bravoregulars.com/CompanyInfo.html

you can look at the ones pictured, even though it says something about a password on it.

These are from B Co. 3/22, 25th Inf. Div. This was Oliver Stone's outfit ( look at the 17 Oct 67 roster on page 3 for William O. Stone ), from which experiences were supposed to be the basis of the movie "Platoon". "Platoon: Bravo Company", is a non-fiction Vietnam War novel by Robert Hemphill (with foreword by Joe Galloway) , who commanded B (Bravo) Company, 3rd Battalion, 22nd Infantry of the 25th Infantry Division (U.S. Army) in Vietnam from 1 October 1967 to 18 February 1968. It is quite different than the movie. I served with C Co. 3/22 for one month prior to being transferred to B Co., 2/22(M).

Platoon:_Bravo_Company
I did some counting and came up with the following numbers :

April 1967

143 US 25 RA = 168

Oct 1967

121 US 52 RA = 173

April 1968

95 US 43 RA = 138


Oct 1968

112 US 35 RA = 147

April 1969

119 US 33 RA = 152


This shows several things. One is the amount of soldiers on the list, from a high of 173 to a low of 138. Maybe some of the officers on here can tell if the "morning report" includes soldiers on R&R, on travel for some other reason, wounded, etc.

It also shows how most are draftees.

The percentages are 85%, 70%, 69%, 76%, 78%.

You will note the low number of soldiers listed during April 1968 in the aftermath of the Tet offensive.

Larry