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Old 06-03-2003, 10:15 AM
HARDCORE HARDCORE is offline
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Exclamation First Amendment Under Fire

The ?First Amendment? partially states that:

?Congress shall make no law abridging the Freedom of Speech or the Press!? However, in the past several years, the press has been in a battle to expand upon it?s perceived rights, while at the same time, certain elements of government seek to limit, restrict, deceive, or collude the scope, power and activities of said press! (opinion)

And what of the ?Laws of the Land?? Do they genuinely apply to each and every man, woman and child equally, without regard to education, finance, position, ancestry or pre-conceived station? ?Oh Yeah?!?

Just taking into account a few examples of ?OVERLY REDUNDANT? media attacks of late, one has to genuinely wonder if the press is not indeed a weapon! One wielded at will, often by fools, to pre-judge and pre-convict (or acquite), before a trial, evidence or even guilt has been ascertained! ?And are these decisions ?ALWAYS? correct? ?Hell, we all know the answer to that question, as many a guilty man has walked and many an innocent has dangled!

Can deep pockets and/or fame and publicity spell out the outcome of any given case - DUHH? And can public opinion be swayed before the fact, and thereby terminate the less affluent, verbally and $$$$? For those of you who still think not, I applaud your sheltered existence?

And what of the innocent who find themselves gasping out their last breath at the hands of said (vested) justice? In any final accounting, will the judges, juries, lawyers and the true power (media) be tried in a far higher celestial court, no excuses, job titles or other convenient moral justifications accepted! ?And where, pray tell, could you find an attorney to represent you on the other side, if that side is not beyond the River Styx??

?So what do we have - let?s take a look-see?!?

There?s Martha Stewart, Scott Peterson, terrorist defendants, those within the media who fasten the noose, and of course, the experimentation/exterminations (and subsequent cover-ups) that have and still do take place within the world community, U.S. included (unfortunately)! The MK Ultras, Tuskegee Debacle, Agent Orange Fiascos, Gulf War Syndrome tragedies, some regional conflicts, and even election manipulations, that by virtue of money, power, influence, and lies, are deemed as acceptable to society as a Sunday picnic?

?Hey, it?s all just one big game - right? And a player is as equal as his bank account and friends in high places allow!? If you doubt this analogy, then I know an ex-pro footballer, a politico or two, and even media celebrities, whose acquaintance you should make!

On the other hand, the world also has no shortages of Jesus Christs, Les Miserables, and Dr. Samuel A. Mudds either!!


?VERITAS INFINITUM?
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  #2  
Old 06-04-2003, 11:12 AM
Andy Andy is offline
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Post My old friend

Just going to touch of a few issues.
The news media can be biased. It sure can. About 20+ years ago I took a course at U.Mass. The class was all about reading different news papers as they related to different issues just prior to the year 1900. (The papers were all on microfilm.) Clearly there were Republican and Democrat papers, along with the ?Yellow Press?. On the same day, regarding the same event someone like Teddy Roosevelt was both the second coming of Christ (in one paper) and a man worst than a Hitler (in another). There are still liberal and conservative news papers, radio programs and TV stations but nothing nearly as bad as in the past. Some of the editorials spoke of blacks and immigrants in a manner that today would be seen as grounds for arrest as hate crimes.
That kid who was fired by the New York Times for making up stories, 120 years ago his actions and words would have seemed quite tame. No doubt 120 years ago his editor would have called him into the office and told him to ?punch up? his stories, that they were too bland.
Can money get you found not guilty when you have committed a crime? Of course it can. But again we are moving in the right direction. Lets take the Catholic Priests who molested many, many alter boys. 120 years ago an arrest would never have taken place, the issue would have been hushed up. If the owner of a coal mine sent 70 men into an un-safe mine and it collapsed, killing all 70 men, it was an expected hazard of the job. No one would even think of bringing charges or a law suit.
Regarding election manipulations, Gimp, that one still irks you a lot doesn?t it? Just as a few examples, how about reading about the election of 1800 to see how and why Tom Jefferson became president instead of Aaron Burr. Tilden definitely beat Hayes but we never see Tilden in our list of presidents. The Mob, Mayor Daily and the grave yards of Chicago defeated Nixon in 1960. In other elections, too numerous to mention, other elected officials didn?t win a majority. There is a long history of buying votes and just plain rigged elections. However, we are getting better.
What?s interesting is that our founding fathers wanted it the way it was. The idea of a democracy, mob rule, was thought to be a bad thing. Democracy was thought to be mere chaos; shades of the French Revolution. That?s why this country is NOT a democracy, never has been, it?s a republic.
Still, I?d argue that we are getting better than we were in the past. No Jim Crow laws, women have the right to vote, public defenders are better, much better than they once were. Are we all equal? Well, lets just say that some folks are more equal than others, doubt that will ever change.

Stay healthy,
Andy
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Old 06-04-2003, 02:15 PM
HARDCORE HARDCORE is offline
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Friend Andy et al;

Granted on all counts - things are (or are being reported to be) "Getting Better!" But alas. also being from the Bay State (originally), my patience has never been admirable. Maybe it's the nature of the beast, but sometimes I too feel that 41 whacks is preferable to 40! (Move thee over Elizabeth)

If it is indeed true that we all know the proper direction to traverse, and as sophisticated entities we can travel there much faster than ten or so decades in the past, then I have to assume that it is apathy, complacency, or complicity, that prevents us from arriving at "Point B" in far faster and more expeditious manner? If we know of a problem and indeed have the power to ease or elevate said problem in a timely fashion, then by all means full speed ahead!

As for our "Magnificent Founding Fathers", ah yes, they too were but human. But considering the means at their disposal, and the times themselves, even though scalawags on occasions (most of them anyway) they were quite remarkable, don't you think? "Founding Finaglers indeed!"

Alas, not having been around to personally raise a little Hell back then, and like you, being an efficianado of history past, as it relates to the specters of today, I too think that we are getting better. "Hell, in another millenia or so, we just might arrive at a time when opinionated trouble makers like me become unnecessary and personna non grata - even upon free-thinking/ free wheeling sites such as this! What then will people like me do, save for jousting at armor-patted windmills!

"Andy et all, stay healthy too - y'all hear!"

VERITAS
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Old 06-05-2003, 11:57 AM
Andy Andy is offline
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Wink Hardcore

Good post, you made me smile, think and question what I had written. You are obviously New England educated. Oh, this is no big thing but she really wasn?t Elizabeth, understand your being formal and that?s fine but her given name, if I remember right, was Lizzy Andrew Borden, (dad wanted a boy). Rigger is an expert on her. He?s wrong but Rigger is the expert.

Are we really sophisticated entities? In the animal world it?s all about responding to fear, food and sex. I wonder how far we have actually come since the caves? For that matter, how often do we make the right decision? My guess would be anyone who is better than 50-50 is doing good. As far as getting to ?Point B?, yes we don?t like child molesters, crack dealers or hookers with AIDS, but beyond that Plan B? Is Gimpy?s perfect world the same as Super Scout?s? Is Arrow?s the same as James? (Just using random names.)

Our Founding Fathers were some great men. Like most of us, they had warts but it doesn?t seem we can say their opinions were wrong or warts, they were just their opinions. Going back to a previous statement, true democracy is often mob rule. It does the maximum benefit for the maximum number of people, but to be in the minority means you get screwed to the max. Political and social winds change. Beware, tomorrow we might be in the minority.

Will we ever arrive at a point when trouble makers are un-necessary? I hope not, that would mean a dictator had given at least half of us mind altering drugs - the land of the zombies. Besides, lots of us have fun raising hell. Regarding Persona non grata, when you were a kid were you ever at a keg party trying to hit on some girl and a cop showed up? I know exactly what that phrase means. Why people even said bad things about my mother!

Regarding the Don Quixote impersonation, there is a simple answer as to what you might do to dream the impossible dream. Actually believe that the Red Sox will take the World Series this year. Or if not, then next year, by God.

Stay healthy,
Andy
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Old 06-05-2003, 05:24 PM
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Gimpy Gimpy is offline
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Default Good discussion fellers!

Well thought out responses and information.


PS----Andy, MY "perfect" world is a WHOLE lot betta than old SuperFellas'---ya know?? And yer right----That (S)election STILL gets under my skin!!
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