Torturing POWs

[39mto39g]

WH
So the 100,000 Kurds that died from the Nerve Agent Sarin, just died from eating bad chickens?

The Lynch story was a media thing, SHE, never said anything like what the media said.

And the Ranger you referred to I guess you mean Pat Tillman.
The Army messed up in his case, But that don't mean what you say is all true.

What the media says is torture is not torture,
Beheading and hang from a bridge, now thats torture,
Water boarding, putting under wear on there heads, that is not torture, humiliation maybe but not torture. You want to see torture look at what Iraqi prisoners went through from Saddam.


As far as How prisoners are treated in guantanamo, all you have to do is put "How prisoners are treated in guantanamo" in a Google search and you get 10 pages of web sites. Including the BBC.

The Dems. of our country are our enemies best friend.

Ron

[SuperScout]

The Dems. of our country are our enemies best friend.
Truer words were never spoken by Ron!! If in doubt, do google search and find out what political party is being supported by CAIR.

[WateringHole]

39......In my previous post, I said about Jessica Lynch "the Army tried to make a hero out of her and it backfired". I didn't say she said those things about herself. She even said so herself when she was interviewed by Diane Sawyer when she said "I didn't realize the Army would go as far as using what happen to me as a recruitment tool".
Reagan gave Hussian those chemicals thinking he would use it against Iran, which he didn't. I'm quite sure the CIA must have informed Reagan about Hussian being an unstable ding-a ling. Guess Reagan was rolling the dice when he made that decision.

[39mto39g]

WH
Regan gave what WMDs to Saddom? There are no WMD.
Now If there are none, how could Regan have given him them?

[Bill Farnie]

Originally posted by 39mto39g WH
Regan gave what WMDs to Saddom? There are no WMD.
Now If there are none, how could Regan have given him them?

In spite of what W-hole says, he did use them against Iran and the Kurds. Guess they are all used up?

[39mto39g]

Bill
No they were not used up. Saddam had two weeks to prepare for the invasion of his country. The CIA has video of large truck convoys leaving Iraq and going into Syria, The trucks were full of , US money and Gold, along with all his WMDs. They are in Syria. If the US really gave a shit that the DEMs were saying there are no WMDs , the Bush administration would go to Syria and get the shipment. They don't give a shit, as long as they (WMDs) are not ready to be used.
I , as a US citizen, say that, the friend of my enemy is an enemy of mine. Just as a enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine. That makes the Democrats and the main stream media, in my opinion, an enemy of the United States. And an enemy of the US is an enemy of mine, to which I WILL fight.
So to that I would say, WH, if you see that red dot on your chest, don't be surprised.

Ron

[WateringHole]

39......My mistake, my mistake, I apologize. When I wrote my last message, I was writing from memory, which was a little foggy.
The information I was able to track down was in the early 80's, Iraq wanted 1.5 million vials of atropine,which is an antidote for nerve gas to protect Iraq soldiers from chemical weapons.
Dr Stephen Bryen with the Pentagon raise a lot of hell with the State Department over this sale because he claimed Iraq was the only country in the Middle East that had chemical weapons at that time. The State Department claimed the sale never happend.
According to documents released after the invasion, the sale did happen. Also, Bethael Corporation out of San Francisco built a chemical storage warehouse in Iraq.

[Seascamp]

It is fortunate that most of human historic reality has a property of elasticity; as in able to retain an original shape even after the most brutal twisting, bending, denial, on and on, etc.
During this current time of reality bending, folding, spindling and mutilating, then painting to match and spinning to immediate stump needs, and in our immediate circumstances, reality will out sooner rather than later, no question about that. The question is at what cost and when, not if. At that time we?ll discover that our MSM and joined-at-the-hip connected politicos have been a fingering the mix dial and having many of us looking in all the wrong directions. And alas, the gullible won?t see reality until they are smacked over the head with it, again.

And W.H., I believe you are referring to the S.F. headquarters of Bechtel, an A&E outfit that builds power plants, LNG compression plants, and other industrial infrastructure. The actual project operations headquarters is in Houston, Texas, plus many other places in the world. I would be a bit surprised if Saddam, even then, would contract Bechtel for chem. facilities as he much preferred long hot showers with the Fritz A&E outfits. The Fritzes are much less visible, know tons about intended lethal toxic gas handling facilities, plus excel and succeed at ?knowing nothin about nothin?, but anything is possible I suppose.

Ron, I think Saddam had at least four months to haul all that WMD out to or through Syria. My thought is that the French, Germans and Russians had mighty dirty WMD knickers in Iraq and when it looked like the thunder was really coming, had to get clean in one hell of a hurry. Just a guess, but I reckon the really nasty stuff was transported up through the Dardanelles, and on to the Russian eastern Black Sea area for supervised storage or destruction.

Scamp

P.s. I will devote the remainder of this post to my protest about how infromation is acquired from the murderous rabid weasels. Here goes....

[Arrow]

Scamp,

I'm anxiously waiting for your next installment...

Watering Hole...

Just in case you missed this part of the national discussion on wmd's...


Democrats on Weapons of Mass Destruction...

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." Sen John F. Kerry (D, MA) Jan. 23, 2003


"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

The Democrats' Case Against Saddam Hussein

Senator Daschle:

"Iraq's actions pose a serious and continued threat to international peace and security. It is a threat we must address. Saddam is a proven aggressor who has time and again turned his wrath on his neighbors and on his own people. Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people. . . . The United States continues to exhaust all diplomatic efforts to reverse the Iraqi threat. But absent immediate Iraqi compliance with Resolution 687, the security threat doesn't simply persist - it worsens. Saddam Hussein must understand that the United States has the resolve to reverse that threat by force, if force is required. And, I must say, it has the will" [Congressional Record, 2/12/98].

Senator Biden:

"An asymmetric capability of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons gives an otherwise weak country the power to intimidate and blackmail. We risk sending a dangerous signal to other would-be proliferators if we do not respond decisively to Iraq's transgressions. Conversely, a firm response would enhance deterrence and go a long way toward protecting our citizens from the pernicious threat of proliferation. . . . Fateful decisions will be made in the days and weeks ahead. At issue is nothing less than the fundamental question of whether or not we can keep the most lethal weapons known to mankind out of the hands of an unreconstructed tyrant and aggressor who is in the same league as the most brutal dictators of this century" [Congressional Record, 2/12/98].

Senator Lieberman:

"Today, the threat may not be as clear to other nations of the world, but its consequences are even more devastating potentially than the real threat, than the realized pain of the invasion of Kuwait in 1990, because the damage that can be inflicted by Saddam Hussein and Iraq, under his leadership, with weapons of mass destruction is incalculable; it is enormous. . . . Mr. President, if this were a domestic situation, a political situation, and we were talking about criminal law in this country, we have something in our law called 'three strikes and you are out,' three crimes and you get locked up for good because we have given up on you. I think Saddam Hussein has had more than three strikes in the international, diplomatic, strategic and military community. So I have grave doubts that a diplomatic solution is possible here. . . . What I and some of the Members of the Senate hope for is a longer-term policy based on the probability that an acceptable diplomatic solution is not possible, which acknowledges as the central goal the changing of the regime in Iraq to bring to power a regime with which we and the rest of the world can have trustworthy relationships" [Congressional Record, 2/12/98].

Senator Levin:

"Mr. President, this crisis is due entirely to the actions of Saddam Hussein. He alone is responsible. We all wish that diplomacy will cause him to back down but history does not give me cause for optimism that Saddam Hussein will finally get it. . . . Mr. President, Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction programs and the means to deliver them are a menace to international peace and security. They pose a threat to Iraq's neighbors, to U.S. forces in the Gulf region, to the world's energy supplies, and to the integrity and credibility of the United Nations Security Council. . . . Mr. President, the use of military force is a measure of last resort. The best choice of avoiding it will be if Saddam Hussein understands he has no choice except to open up to UNSCOM inspections and destroy his weapons of mass destruction. The use of military force may not result in that desired result but it will serve to degrade Saddam Hussein's ability to develop weapons of mass destruction and to threaten international peace and security. Although not as useful as inspection and destruction, it is still a worthy goal" [Congressional Record, 2/12/98].

Senator Kerry:

"Mr. President, we have every reason to believe that Saddam Hussein will continue to do everything in his power to further develop weapons of mass destruction and the ability to deliver those weapons, and that he will use those weapons without concern or pangs of conscience if ever and whenever his own calculations persuade him it is in his interests to do so. . . . I have spoken before this chamber on several occasions to state my belief that the United States must take every feasible step to lead the world to remove this unacceptable threat. He must be deprived of the ability to injure his own citizens without regard to internationally-recognized standards of behavior and law. He must be deprived of his ability to invade neighboring nations. He must be deprived of his ability to visit destruction on other nations in the Middle East region or beyond. If he does not live up fully to the new commitments that U.N. Secretary-General Annan recently obtained in order to end the weapons inspection standoff - and I will say clearly that I cannot conceive that he will not violate those commitments at some point - we must act decisively to end the threats that Saddam Hussein poses." [Congressional Record, 3/13/98.]

"There should be no doubt, Saddam's ability to produce and deliver weapons of mass destruction poses a grave threat to the peace of that region and the security of the world. . .Saddam should never doubt the will of the American people, their legislators, their military, or their commander-in-chief to protect our interests, defend our security, and ensure the well-being of our fellow citizens and that of our friends and allies around the world. He should know that when it comes to protecting our vital national interests, Americans will stand as one. We will speak as one. And whenever, necessary, we will act as one." -President Al Gore -in February 1998

[Arrow]

The History of Treachery: "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

Bill Clinton is misleadin' to Bill Clinton:

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Bill Clinton is misleadin' to Madeline Albright:

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

Madeline Albright is misleadin' to Sandy Berger:

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

Sandy Berger is misleadin' to Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others:

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle and John Kerry in a letter to President Clinton, Oct. 9, 1998

Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others are misleadin' to Rep. Nancy Pelosi:

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

Rep. Nancy Pelosi is misleadin' to Madeline Albright: "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

Madeline Albright is misleadin' to Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL):

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL) in a letter, Dec 5, 2001

Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL) is misleadin' to Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI):

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the! e means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI) is misleadin' to Al Gore:

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

Al Gore is misleadin' to Al Gore:

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

Al Gore is misleadin' to Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA): "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA) is misleadin' to Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV):

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV) is misleadin' to Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA):

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA) is misleadin' to Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV):

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV) is misleadin' to Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA):

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA) is misleadin' to Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY):

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY) is misleadin' to Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL): "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL) is misleadin' to Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA):

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

John F. Kerry (D, MA) is misleadin' only to Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA).

"Some of our greatest moments have been acts of courage for which no one could have ever prepared. We will always remember the words of that brave man expressing the spirit of a great country. We will never forget all we have lost and all we are fighting for. Ours is the cause of freedom. We've defeated freedom's enemies before, and we will defeat them again. We cannot know every turn this battle will take, yet we know our cause is just and our ultimate victory is assured. We will no doubt face new challenges, but we have our marching orders. My fellow Americans, Let's Roll." - President George W. Bush on the eve of the War Against Terror, quoting Todd Beamer, one of the Flight 93 Patriots


"George Bush has misled the American people." - John F. Kerry -(D-MA)