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  #51  
Old 01-16-2004, 07:15 AM
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Default Clark's Views

[Here's some comments from Wesley Clark, aka Hillbilly Lite, on his pro-and-con stance on the war in Iraq, and the folks who brought this to the headlines.]

Now there's a horsefly in Mr. Clark's soup: the Drudge Report yesterday put up a copy of his op-ed in the London Times of only eight months ago, and the transcript of Clark testimony to the U.S. House Armed Services Committee, given 18 months ago. The transcripts render his claim that he has "always" been against the war in Iraq a spectacular lie. [But since when are we expected to receive anything other than spin from him?] Ah, the cruelty of the remorseless record, cruelty magnified by the Internet.
"President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt," he wrote last April 10. "Can anything be more moving than the joyous throngs swarming the streets of Baghdad? Memories of the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the defeat of Milosevic in Belgrade flood back."
That's bad enough, but there's more. Barely a year after 9/11, Mr. Clark testified to the House committee that George W. not only does the right thing by making war on those deserving it, but has a continuing responsibility to do so, and the United Nations be damned. George W., he suggested, could do worse than take Wesley Clark as a model.
"There's no requirement to have any doctrine here," he told the congressmen. "I mean this is simply a long-standing right of the United States and other nations to take the actions they deem necessary in their self-defense. Every president has deployed forces as necessary to take action. He's done so without multilateral support if necessary. He's done so in advance of conflict if necessary. In my experience, I was the commander of the European forces in NATO. When we took action in Kosovo, we did not have United Nations approval to do this and we did so in a way that was designed to pre-empt Serb ethnic cleansing and regional destabilization there. There were some people who didn't agree with that decision. The United Nations was not able to agree to support it with a resolution.
"There's no question that Saddam Hussein ... has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001. ... If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we."
The White House couldn't have put the president's case more eloquently than this. Mr. Clark even cited Richard Perle, the dark prince of the left's most fervid nightmares. "I want to underscore that I think the United States should not categorize this action as pre-emptive. ... As Richard Perle so eloquently pointed out, this is a problem that's long-standing, a decade in the making. It needs to be dealt with and the clock is ticking."
John Kerry inflicts the fatal wound on Howard Dean in Iowa. Wesley Clark does the deed in New Hampshire, but makes himself fit only as the running mate of ... who else? She's the only nominee who could run a sacrificial race and enhance her credentials for '08. Someone might say she's inevitable. [Seems that other pundits are predicting Madame Hillary will have to ride in on her white horse and save the Democrats from they own selves! In the immortal words of the President, "Bring 'em on!]
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  #52  
Old 01-16-2004, 10:05 AM
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Gents and Ladies -

Well, this has surely proven to be a hot topic and a lively debate!!
"Do keep it rolling!!"

VERITAS
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  #53  
Old 01-16-2004, 01:21 PM
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anyone who evennn reads the drudge report and believes it needs to find some place to lay down talk about crap real deep stuff TOO.
razz
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  #54  
Old 01-16-2004, 01:52 PM
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Default razz

Lest you go off in a froth about the Drudge Report, kindly re-read the posting that Drudge was simply quoting from the London Times, a fairly respectable piece of journalism. And what is it in the Drudge Report that you find so objectionable?

Anyway, getting back on topic, as I predicted, O'Neill has dropped off the radar screen faster than a cup of hot chocolate disappears in the frozen northeast!
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  #55  
Old 01-16-2004, 05:21 PM
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Ambassador Bremer, on behalf of our government, is insisting that Iraq not have a direct democracy.

Beware.

They want a direct democracy. They should have the kind of democracy they want... and then should be expected to live with the consequences.

Let it be. "Let" them have their own kind of democracy... and bring our troops home a whole lot sooner and safer.
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  #56  
Old 01-16-2004, 05:39 PM
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Talking My Chuckle on this thread.

We all have our sources for information. The conservatives have their sources and they believe them. The liberals have their sources and they believe them. Both think the other's sources are tainted.

Its a hoot reading this thread. Just place nice guys.

Keith
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Old 01-17-2004, 07:02 AM
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Default Iraq before 911 thing & it's still not too late. Who cares when Bush Planne to attack

I said this same thing back in the 60's while delivering supplies to Okinawa, Youkusha, and so-forth for our Veteran's in Vietnam.

Pick a country & pick a town, any town in the area you want to win a war in. Give the people 10 hours to evacuate at least 20 miles from the chosen town. Drop the biggest bestest Atomic Bomb we have dead center of that chosen town. Give the onlookers a few days to find out where there Asses are, give them a call and ask if they'ed like to talk about a treaty. If they don't answer quick enough, hang up the phone. Wait 10 minutes call again and give them 6 hours to get out of another chosen town. Again, drop the biggest bestest Atomic Bomb we have dead center of that chosen town. Give the onlookers a few days to find out where there Asses are, give them a call and ask if they'ed like to talk about a treaty.

Repeat steps one and two until the answer is what you want to hear. Now tell me, do you think for a minute we'd have to occupy said country to make sure they are keeping their word? How many lives would be saved? How many lives would be lost? If a stupid no-body like me can think of something like that, why can't our Government think of that or something even better since they have the big THINK TANK?

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Travis
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Old 01-17-2004, 12:59 PM
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"Let" the Iraqi people have their own kind of democracy.

Let it be.
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  #59  
Old 01-17-2004, 01:15 PM
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Default Sir Blue

You and I both know, or should know, that pure democracy, as being rooted and tooted for in Iraq by certain, and certainly not all folks in Iraq, is just another form of tyranny waiting to happen. Without having much in the way of historical precedent or practice in the finer arts of democratic behavior, the Iraqis may need a little adult supervision before we execute our exit strategery.
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  #60  
Old 01-18-2004, 06:32 AM
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Emperor -
Wasn't thinking of exiting just yet... but more along the lines of reducing/eliminating (if possible) resentment which is almost sure to arise if they feel forced into the labyrinthine electoral process Americans are blessed/burdened with. I see that risk of tyranny as you do pretty much... however, there they are dealing with a putative "nation", if I may so state... one whose actual borders were imposed long ago by european hegemony and whose governments (of each kind that had emerged) had been diddled with by the border drawers following the flow of petroleum for often very selfish reasons, and whose dominant religion is not about to admit of patience, kindness, tolerance or love either of one another nor, clearly, of any other faith.
It strikes me somewhat like a fistfight between very young siblings, where one is obviously going to win, but only after some hard knocks and blood, plus some joyless acceptance of bruised egos. As a father, my tendency would be to lock the combatants in a room, put in the ear plugs (or perhaps work in my shop), and return at a time convenient to myself, unlock the door, and offer water or possibly bandages.

Not personally knowing for sure the actual strength of a direct democracy movement in Iraq, nor the degree to which their opposition actually yet grasps the utter (and largely obfuscated) complexity of an American (or British, for that matter) democratic process... it just seems common sensical for they who demand direct vote to be given an opportunity to exercise it.

Like you, I would hope for adult supervision along the way... yet I am also wary that of the two sides, it is those who wish direct democracy who are the more likely to get back behind ramparts sniping at our men than would be the other.... perhaps an unwarranted or an unwise assumption on my part?
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