Date to get out of Iraq

[39mto39g]

If the American people want us to pull out and they vote on it, Than what ever happens after that will be on those who perpossed the Idea.
Im just sick and tired of the Republican party standing up and doing what is right even in the face of Democrats saying stupid stuff like "Bush squandered decades of consensus with our allies" I say lets do what the Democrats want, we can always go back. We make the pull out All there idea and All there respocability for what happens after.
Hear ya go Senitor Kennidy/Kerry, Its all yours, What ever you want to do in Iraq, we will do , but when things go wrong, its also your fault, OR shut up.

Ron

[urbsdad6]

It's just posturing by the Democons. I don't think the Administration really had a plan to withdraw from the beginning, if they did it was certainly kept from all of us. Some say that only Iraq soldiers are being captured, from what I've seen by those of you that have spoken with the common man (the grunt) it's quite a mixture of outsiders causing problems. Before we jump ship we should be looking very carefully at the cost and investment of involment along with what the people of Iraq need and want and what will be gained. What was our original promise to the people of Iraq and how has that changed since we arrived. Right now we're up to our elbows in alligators over there and to see a repeat of the withdrawal of troops from Vietnam (we'd turn over a FB to the ARVN and 2 weeks later the NVA owned them) would on the one hand seem a betrayal but on the other hand maybe they have something the ARVN didn't. We're stuck between a rock and a hardplace on withdrawal at this juncture.


Doc Urb

[exlrrp]

Back before Powell was Secretary of State he developed a certain set of guidelines based on his experience that became known as the Powell Doctrine.
Among others things, based on our Vietnam experierience, he concluded that America should never get into a war where we didn't have an end position--measurable criteria that, when produced, would indicate that the war was over and we could go home.
So what is it?? WHat would be the measurable , observable conditions that would indicate the war is over and we shoud go home? This we went to war without. The Downing Street Memos prove that the Bush Administratin had decided to go to war long in advance of when they said and that there was no real plan for the aftermath of the shooting war.
The Bush Administration falsified intelligence to prove a nonexistent WMD scenario--remember the "yellowcake?" remember the "aluminum tubes?"--that was our justification for taking the American people into this war. We don't hear so much about WMDs, yellowcake and amuminum tubes anymore, do we? Because it all turned out to be lies. When the lies were discovered the Bush Administration changed the reasons fo0r the invasion--now its "for democracy"

So now we're in a war, that was started on lies, that appears to have no end in sight at all. Even the Army commanders are saying it'll be at least 10 years or more.
WHATS THE PLAN REPUBLICANS??? Whats the plan that will get us out of this war? You took us into a war without a plan to end it and get us out?? Well that was pretty stupid!!

I don't want to hear the Democrats plan, I want to hear the Republicans plan!! TTHEYRE the ones who run the whole governmenbt--THEYRE the ones who got us in there!! So I'f like to hear the Republicans take responsiblity for a war they started and tell us when it will end!! Rumsfelds claims at the beginning that there would be 40,000 troops there after 2 years and only cost us $40 billion have been proven false, like mostother things he said. Thats what happens when you get your intelligence from Ahmed Chalabi
It's costing us over 2 American lives a DAY!! It's costing us $100bilion a year!!! Is that"good to go" on for a long time? Just keep throwing lives and money at it?? That the plan?? Just like Vietnam??
I want it over--it's not doing America or Americans any good at all, nor Iraqis either!! So when is it gonna end??
I don't want to hear what the Democrats say about it, I WANT TO HEAR WHAT THE REPUBLICANS SAY ABOUT IT!! THEYRE the ones who are in complete control of the American Government, NOT THE DEMOCRATS!!!
WHATS THE PLAN REPUBLICANS??? You went to war with lies and no plan for the aftermath--that was really stupid!! And, because you didn't learn the lessons of Vietnam (Don't get into a war you can't get out of!) we're in a war we can't get out of.
Quit whining about what the Democrats are doing and start thinking about what YOURE doing--youre the ones in charge. And all you can thihk to do is whine about what Kerry and Kennedy say--this doesn't look good.
See you at the next election
Stay good
James

[39mto39g]

At no time in our nations history have we had a plan to withdraw before we went in. Its just not something you think of. Probibly should wait to win before you plan to leave. If you owned the Steelers You wouldn't make plans for a superbowl party before the game and even if you did you wouldn't make the plans public.

Let the people vote on us leaving, Then they have no one to blame for what happens after we pull out but themselves. All the Administration has to do is say, Hay!!! you voted for us to leave.
If the people vote for us to stick it out then thats what we do, and tell anyone that says to pull out that the people say to stay, now go away.

Ron

[MORTARDUDE]

wel let's see we bailed out of vietnam, laos, cambodia, lebanon, and somalia.....oh that's right there was no oil involved..my bad.

[Chas H]

Let the people vote on us leaving? We didn't let them vote on our invasion.
So when they vote us out, Dubya can say "See, it's democracy at work". And then it will be OK to allow the country to descend into the inevitable anarchy. Pulling out tomorrow would produce the same anarchy.

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by 39mto39g At no time in our nations history have we had a plan to withdraw before we went in. Its just not something you think of. Probibly should wait to win before you plan to leave. If you owned the Steelers You wouldn't make plans for a superbowl party before the game and even if you did you wouldn't make the plans public.

Let the people vote on us leaving, Then they have no one to blame for what happens after we pull out but themselves. All the Administration has to do is say, Hay!!! you voted for us to leave.
If the people vote for us to stick it out then thats what we do, and tell anyone that says to pull out that the people say to stay, now go away.

Ron

Ron--I couldn't agree more with this statement : "Let the people vote on us leaving" Unfortinately, you need tyo be telling this to the peoiple in charge: the Republicans. Its not going to happen though because the people would vote for withdrawal.
As of right now only 37% of the American people approve of the Bush Administrations handling of the war so I'm in the majority here
The Bush Administration needs to confont its lies that got us into the war--all that nonexistent WMD stuff that turned out to be lies ( Cheney's STILL saying it!) THATS why the world wants no part of US Startegy!! The impetus that drove us into the war was not "bringing democracy" to the Iraqis--want to see the picture of Rumsfeld hugging Hussein in the late 80s when we were arming Iraq? What got us into war, provided the urgency, was the allegations of WMDs
Go back and look at what was said in 2002. Never before have we rushed to war on such testimony from one single party: The Republicans
George Bush said there was WMDs
Dick Cheney said there was WMDs (still saying it!)
Colin Powell said there was WMDs
Condoleeza Rice said there was WMDs
And it was all a lie to rush America into the war that the Bush Administration had decided on from the very beginning.
And the people didn't get a chance to vote on it and if they did they would have been voting on faullty information--false information that Bush later gave Tenet the Medal of Freedom fo providing. (he provided Clinton with the same but Clinton didn't declare war over it)
.I'll tell you right out that there was always an escape plan for us in the lrrps, we never could count on things going right. I wouldn't have participated without one, it WOULD have been a suicide mission. That only makes sense.
It only makes sense to have plan B, C, D and E (and possiubly through Z-) in whatever you do. You do this every day, at every crisis, automatically--or you'd be dead by now.
Ths Bush Administration never acknowledged their huge wrongful error--taking us into war on falsified information. Now we can only make the best of a bad situation.The Bush Administration went into this war thinking and hoping that things would just work out fine after the shooting war--totally misunderstanding the political and ethnic situation.
Think the rest of the world doesn't know that? Thats why we only have one major ally left in Iraq: Britain. After that, what? Tonga? Uzbekistan? The rest of the world told us to shove it, which was not a bad idea on their part, seeing as how its turning out: an Israeli/Palestinian situation with no "win" only death and destruction
So here we are, stuck in a war that began on lies, a war we stand no chance of winning. What has the average American "won from this war? cheaper gas?? A more secure America? Not hardly! What we've won is over 1700 American dead with over $200 billion spent. For a people we never liked and like less now.
Lets look at the concept of "winning" a war we started without being attacked. WHats the goal? Regime change, right?? But you can't just change the regime and not deal with the consequences. This is what we are dealing with now and will be dealing with for a long, long time. ANy reasonable person should have seen that coming.

So where's the endpoint--or IS there an endpoint?? Just say NO, Republicans, if there is none. Say it REAL loud!! Just tell the truth. For a change!!
Stay good
James

[Gimpy]

James said!

[reconeil]

In your and/or DNC context, I guess it's fair saying that America should've stayed out of WWII...ALSO?

After all, The Japs only killed about 2,400 Americans when attacking Pearl Harbor, which was about 600 Americans less than killed at: "9/11". Plus, The German, Italians and other allies of The Axis Powers made no attacks on American Soil or American Protectorates at all.

But then, and since Democrats were in control during WWII and calling-the-shots at the time, I guess that it was quite politically-correct to expend about 350,000 American Lives and millions of Allied Casualties,...so that Freedom and Liberty might last and endure and mass murderers might be destroyed??

Hell, for Democrats it's perfectly allright even expending American Lives and Casualties in places like Somalia, and where nothing could possibly ever be resolved. Whereas if Republicans did same, they all would be publicly pillaried. Go figure the staunch political mindset and/or One Party Rule mentality?
That's: "Democracy"?????????

Neil :cd:

[Chas H]

Oh give us a break Neil, how much longer do we have to endure some cockamamy comparison to events of 64 years ago.
You know, my young nieces an nephews try to pull this "Well so and so did it too" and their parents quickly shut them up. The same line from a grown man is friggen pathetic.