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Old 10-25-2005, 04:51 PM
HARDCORE HARDCORE is offline
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Thumbs down Lightly Armored Creampuffs?



The Pentagon and the Iraqis Just Screwed Us Again - NOTHING NEW HERE!!

Turning to an Iraqi Supplier no less, the Pentagon spent just about $1,000,000 on (so called) armored cars for senior Iraqi cops! Why in the Hell we footed the bill is anyone?s guess, especially considering the oil wealth that Iraq possesses!

Well in the event that you consider this a ?SO WHAT SCENARIO?, let me tell you a little more about these expensive (about $135,000 each) rides that we furnished to Iraqi-Fuzz-Brass!

First off, the cars were all used (old) to begin with, 1994 to 1996 models!

Secondly, they were all Mercedes Benz automobiles, and the last time that I looked, Germany was one of the nations that told us to go to Hell during Gulf War II!

Thirdly, the armor plating on these tin cans could not even stop a high-velocity rifle shot, let alone an RPG or roadside bomb!

Fourthly, it was another one of those, non-refundable, no-bid deals! A predetermined maneuver that may have been designed (?) to make a few rich friends even richer!

And last but not lease the seventh vehicle in this sweetheart deal, has itself, come up among the missing! Hell, maybe bin Laden is driving it, somewhere around the ?Muddled East!?


So what in the Hell is wrong with us that we continue to allow already rich bastards to slip us the weenie? It has gotten to a point, were these thieving, lying cretins, could even sell us gift-wrapped excrement, just so long as it had an expensive designer label!

And again, the worse part of this nonsense is that we continue to allow it? And to infuriate matters even more, some even have the gall to try and convince us that it is all in our best interest, that manure don?t stink, up is down, crooks are patriots, and lies are in reality, the God?s honest truth!!

?ereThay isway away uckersay ornbay everyway inutemay, andway ostmay ofway usway esideray ightray erehay inway ethay atesStay!?
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Old 10-26-2005, 04:07 AM
39mto39g 39mto39g is offline
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Where did you get this info?

Ron
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Old 10-26-2005, 04:39 AM
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Not sure where he got it from, but it was in the St Paul paper yesterday.

Trav
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Old 10-26-2005, 07:28 AM
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39m

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont..._1n25cars.html

San Diego Union Tribune yesterday!!!

Rick
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Old 10-26-2005, 10:40 AM
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What a bunch of dumb ass (people?)
Reminds me of a 100% garentied NO Virous word processor. Turned out to be a typewriter.
If you don't make specs don't bitch when you get what you asked for.
The pentigon should be lucky the vehicle was put togeather and not delivered in pieces.

Ron
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Old 10-26-2005, 10:49 AM
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In a country were they mount .50's in the beds of Nissan pickup trucks they are probably considered nice rides. Caveat emporum
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Old 10-26-2005, 06:34 PM
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DAVE -

Let the buyer beware indeed!

VERITAS
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Old 10-27-2005, 09:40 AM
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What the author describes is virtually 100% of the after market armor retrofit vehicles. Origin of vehicle and exactly who installed the hard spots, etc., makes but little difference. It is just band aids on a band aid ball and after all is said and done the design GVW is probably exceeded by 1500-2000 lbs not including the driver, body guards and hardware, recreational chickadees, etc.

The brakes and suspension are way over loaded before the vehicle ever leaves the retrofit shop unless stock components are replaced with up grade parts and if that happens, then the next thing to happen is the stock suspension frame anchors start ripping out and the butch plate welding race is on. Tires go away real quick and the engine and running gear is really stressed. The companies that do these retro fits in the US and Europe are reputable for the most part and are up front about vehicle limits, especially what level of small arms fire or fragmentation the vehicle can protect against. The design objective is to escape a small arms attack and get the client to a safer area, hopefully alive, and I have never heard of a retrofit company stating that the vehicle is impervious beyond pistol, machine pistol or assault rifle attack.

I know of no premium alloy AISI, DIN, SUS or ASTM ?-3/16 thick plate steel that can reliably hold back a high velocity 30 cal rifle bullet, especially if an armor-piercing round and if fired at ranges closer than 40 meters. One has to go the tempered, dense, plate steel (called black gold) to get that level of protection and this is a whole new level of fabrication calling for much different fab equipment like highly advanced inert gas welders, plasma cutters, etc. Now this adds about 40% to the GVW and more suspension/braking issues.

These are ?cars with armor? and a whole separate class, and cost, from armored cars. With a no BS armored car the fabrication starts from a swept concrete floor, box steel, tube steel, black gold and properly sized engine, brake and suspension parts. The technology in an armored truck we see carrying moneybags around is spot-on, except it?s done in a Limo looking rig. Cubic dollars is the issue and high six or low seven digit numbers is the opening ante and except for the appearance, there is nothing stock about them except for the exterior sheet metal and possibly the engine block. Key thought; they are designed, engineered and fabricated from the floor dust up as armored cars.

My take is the reporter thought he or she discovered something new under the sun or is just about selling copy to the gullible, or just being the usual media AH that doesn?t bother to get to reality or the facts and is jacking people up for political motivations. These after market cars with retrofit armor have been around for a long time and no big secrets going on at all. In the spirit of something is better than nothing, these cars with armor do well enough but are limited.

Scamp
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Old 10-27-2005, 09:43 AM
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Sir Scampness...

Thank you.
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Old 10-27-2005, 11:59 AM
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As I recall, Al Capone?s armored Packard came in at some 12,000 to 14,000 lbs, had some humongous CID engine and could take a pounding from the Thompson?s, shotguns and pistols of the time.

On the other hand, tire, brake and suspension technology of the time was not so great so that Packard had to be the original ?town car?. I suppose on a straight run, that big engine could get some speed up but turning and braking was another matter and not easily accomplished if any speed was involved. That top heavy and tall rig would most likely come to a stop on its side or roof rather than turn or brake while at speed, yikes.

Scamp
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