Army New Stop Loss Program

[lcpd24]

How do you guy's feel about this, or is it even true!

Army To Try Stop Loss Program
Associated Press
January 6, 2004


WASHINGTON - About 7,000 U.S. soldiers in Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan who were planning to retire or otherwise leave the service in the next few months are getting new marching orders: Stay put.

The Army is expanding what it calls a "stop loss" order to keep soldiers in uniform - even those who have met their contractual service obligation or are scheduled to retire - during a rotation of tens of thousands of troops that begins this month and is scheduled to finish in May.

Col. Elton Manske, chief of the Army's enlisted division, said Monday that the move was deemed necessary to maintain the cohesion and combat effectiveness of units now operating in Iraq and Afghanistan.

He did not explain why the Army cannot manage the readiness of its forces in Iraq and Afghanistan without forcing soldiers to stay in the service beyond their scheduled retirement or enlistment period. Critics say it is because the Army has too few soldiers and too many overseas commitments.

The order affects all Army units scheduled to return from Iraq, Kuwait or Afghanistan in coming months. Soldiers will be required to remain with their unit until it gets to its home base, and for a maximum of 90 days afterward, he said. The order mirrors one already in place for the units that are scheduled to deploy to those three countries to replace the units there now.

Manske said the Army also is using a more common management tool to keep soldiers in uniform: it is offering bonuses of up to $10,000 for soldiers in Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan who are willing to re-enlist for three years or more, regardless of their military specialty.

The bonus program took effect on Jan. 1-2. The expanded "stop loss" order has yet to be implemented. Manske said it is expected to take effects "within days," but he had no specific date.

The use of "stop loss" reflects the difficulty the Army is having in keeping enough soldiers available to meet the Army's worldwide commitments.

Prior to the war in Afghanistan, "stop loss" authority had rarely been used; it is seen by many as being in conflict with the principle of an all-volunteer military in which enlisted personnel sign contracts for a specific period of service. It was first used in the 1991 Gulf War.

Temporarily prohibiting soldiers from retiring or quitting when their enlistment is up can be a hardship for those who had made plans to leave the service, but it does not extend their unit's stay in Iraq.

The order also prevents soldiers from moving to new assignments during the restricted period.

Among the first combat units to return from Iraq, beginning this month, will be the 101st Airborne Division, based at Fort Campbell, Ky.

The other major units returning this year are the 1st Armored Division, the 4th Infantry Division, the 173rd Airborne Brigade, the 2nd Light Cavalry Regiment, the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment and elements of the 82nd Airborne Division.

The expanded restriction also applies to the U.S. soldiers who are due to be replaced in Afghanistan this year.

Sound Off.....Do you think this will have any affect on long term retention?

[VIETNAM 1968]

The Air Force has implemented STOP LOSS on two instances since September 11, 2001. The first time was right after the attack and effected all Air Force Personnel, both Enlisted and Commissioned. All separations and retirements were frozen for about one year. During that year most all Air Force Reserves, and State Guardsmen were ordered to Active Duty to beef up Homeland Security and provide extended Over Seas TDY Requirements.

My Reserve Squadron was activated and I did an additional year on Active Duty before being returned to Active Reserve Status. When Stop Loss was declared, there were two guys in my Squadron who HAD ALREADY SUBMITTED PAPERWORK TO GET OUT. One guy was planning on retiring after well over twenty years of combined Active Duty and Reserve Service. The other guy had decided not to Reenlist and actually thought that he was free of an obligation to report for the Active Duty Call up. Both the Retirement and Separation were due to go into effect between four days to one week after the official date of Stop Loss. Both were required to report and did their entire one year Call Up.

When our Squadron was released from Active Duty, there was then a flood of Retirements and Separations when Stop Loss was rescinded. At that time we lost most of their Senior Sergeants in the rates of E-6 to E-8. All stated they wished to get out before being forced into another tour of Active Duty.

Just before our invasion of Iraq, Stop Loss was again instituted in the Air Force and all Career Fields were again frozen. I personally had planned to Retire in April 2003 and had submitted paperwork to do so. That Retirement was delayed until December 17, 2003. Fortunately though, our unit was not again Activated and everyone was permitted to run out the second Stop Loss in Reserve Status instead of Active Duty. In this instance, I did not mind my Retirement being held up as I was promoted to MSgt. (E-7) due to the critical shortage of higher ranking Sergeants brought about by the mass exodus of Senior Sergeants when they were released from the first Stop Loss.

I agree with Dennis (LCPD24). Stop Loss is the breaking of a LEGAL CONTRACT between the enlistee and the Government, in which the Government backs out of a LEGAL CONTRACT they had previously made with the enlistee. Officers come under a different system as they accept a Commission for life and can Resign that Commission at any time. Obviously though paperwork has to be submitted before that Commission is resigned and Stop Loss then comes into effect if the date of that Resignation is after the date that Stop Loss is declared. When that happens, the Officer also must serve until Stop Loss is lifted and the Resignation is permitted to go through.

The Government uses the excuse that National Security takes precedent over an individual's enlistment or Commission. The ability of a Military Unit to complete their mission suffers when that unit goes below the specific number of personnel needed to complete that mission. To a certain extent that excuse is a valid one, although there are other ways of insuring that a Military Unit does not go below a certain level of personnel. The Draft and Enlistment Bonuses are two ways of making sure that a unit has all the manpower it needs to complete it's assigned mission.

Stop Loss is not a new idea. It was used during World War II although it was not called Stop Loss at that time. It was much simpler then because each new recruit, and person already in uniform at the time War was declared, was told that his service would be required FOR THE DURATION OF HOSTILITIES, without any specific length of service. I also believe it was again used during the Korean Police Action, although a state of war was never declared at that time. Vietnam was somewhat unique because Stop Loss was not instituted to the best of my knowledge. Apparently The Draft kept a steady supply of new personnel flowing in and out of each branch of the service. In most instances Career Enlisted Personnel were allowed to Retire and regular separations were permitted. Those not retiring or separating went back to Vietnam for two or three Tours of Duty because of the incentives to do so. Promotions and increased pay, just to name two. What do you guys and girls think?

To all my Vietnam Veteran Brothers and Sisters I again state: WELCOME HOME:


VIETNAM 1968

[catman]

Gentlemen...I can not comment on your time of service but during my era they had a little phrase they would throw at you : "FOR THE GOOD OF THE SERVICE" once you sign that line they got your ass and they will let go when they want to and only when they want to.

Trav

[reeb]

I wonder if the banks would do the same thing if you get a loan. You know extend the payment period for any " good " reason.

I always thought when you sign a contract like the enlistment papers, when your time is up, it is up.

In Nam we could extend ( volunteer ) for another 6 months at a time, but now the Gov is doing it automatically. BLAH !!!!!

A person can only go so far until breaking, right?

Restart the draft, and this problem ( most likely ) wouldnt exist..

The reserves done their duty and now the Govt wants more of them. Blah !!!!!!

enough...........

So I guess the old saying 30 and a wake up is out completly now......

[DMZ-LT]

My Dad got drafted in WWII and spent over 5 years in the Army , mostly overseas. He told me they got drafted for the duration plus 6 ( months)

[reeb]

By MATTHEW ROSENBERG, AP



AP
Soldiers who re-enlist for three years will be paid bonuses, regardless of military specialty.

BAQOUBA, Iraq (Jan. 7) - At a checkpoint on the barren plain east of Baqouba, word of a new U.S. Army plan to pay soldiers up to $10,000 to re-enlist evoked laughter from a few bored-looking troopers.

''Man, they can't pay me enough to stay here,'' said a 23-year-old specialist from the Army's 4th Infantry Division as he manned the checkpoint with Iraqi police outside this city 35 miles northeast of Baghdad.

His comments reflect a sentiment not uncommon among the nearly two dozen soldiers in Iraq who have spoken with The Associated Press since the Army announced the increased re-enlistment bonuses for soldiers in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait on Monday. Other soldiers at home were divided about the offer.

The soldiers in Iraq who spoke about the bonuses were serving in a range of assignments, from training the new Iraqi army at a base east of Baqouba to patrolling some of the most dangerous roads in the country, like those leading north from Baghdad.

Some cited the monotonous routine of a lonely life spent thousands of miles from loved ones. Others offered simpler reasons - such as the fear of an early death.

Griping about Army life is a tradition among soldiers, and it is unclear how many will actually opt out to take their chances in a civilian economy where jobs are scarce.

However, Staff Sgt. Julian Guerrero, 38, who runs a re-enlistment program for a battalion in the 4th ID based in Tikrit, said only 10 of the battalion's 80 eligible soldiers have taken the deal so far.

At Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina, a few soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division preparing to ship out to Iraq seemed evenly split over whether the Army was offering enough money.

''For three years, that's kind of cheap,'' said Spc. Derek Gay, 24, of Tampa, Fla. ''Some people would re-enlist anyway, but there's more incentive for a good chunk of money.''

Staff Sgt. Raymond Strickland, 30, said he received a $5,000 bonus when he re-enlisted in 2002.

''No matter how much it is, it's a good thing,'' he said.


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Col. Patrick Donahue, commander of the 1st Brigade, said some soldiers flying out Wednesday would sign re-enlistment papers when they arrived in Iraq so they could receive some of the bonus tax-free while in a combat zone.

But along the road leading north from Baghdad and into the ''Sunni Triangle,'' the heartland of Saddam Hussein's support and the center of anti-American resistance, a sergeant from the 1st Armored Division said he's not interested in the money because he has been shot at a ''few times'' and ''I don't want to die here.''

According to the Defense Department, 332 soldiers have been killed by hostile fire since the Iraq war began March 20.

''Every car, every person are potential weapons. We can't trust anything,'' said the sergeant, who has been in Iraq since May and is due to leave in two or three months. He spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The increased bonus program is part of an effort to avoid a manpower crunch. It's aimed at soldiers like Spc. Justin Brown of the 4th Infantry Division. ''I don't want to be in the Army forever and just keep fighting wars,'' said the 22-year-old from Atoka, Okla.

Back-to-back wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have stretched the Army thin. Nearly two-thirds of its active duty brigade-sized units are deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. When the troops currently in Iraq rotate out this spring, the U.S. plans to lean heavily on the National Guard and Reserves for replacements. The Pentagon said Wednesday that the number of U.S. military reservists called to active duty jumped by more than 10,000 in the past week.

''What we're trying to do is to manage the force now so that we don't have a falloff in recruitment or retention a year from now, and then have a gap where we have to scramble to rectify that,'' Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Tuesday.

Under the program, soldiers serving in Iraq, Afghanistan or Kuwait who re-enlist for three years or more will be paid bonuses of up to $10,000, regardless of their military specialty.




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Bonuses are frequently used by all branches of the military to retain troops. But they tend to be targeted at those with special skills, like fighter pilots, who were offered $20,000 or more by the Air Force a few years ago.

The bonuses offered under the latest program are earmarked for every soldier. And $10,000 is a tidy sum for low-ranking soldiers who earn $25,000 to $35,000 a year.

At the checkpoint outside Baqouba, the 23-year-old specialist, who refused to give his name saying he feared retribution from military higher-ups, stubbed out a cigarette on the side of a Humvee. As he began to speak, he was interrupted by the blast of a Kalashnikov rifle a few yards up the road. An Iraqi policeman fired the rounds in a mound of dirt for no apparent reason.

''You see what I have to put up with?'' asked the soldier. With two months left in a 12-month tour, ''there's not enough money in the world to make me stay a month longer.''

Of course, there are also soldiers who said they want to stay on.

Back in the United States ''we spend most of our time training and it can get to be a pretty monotonous,'' said Master Sgt. Rohan McDermott, a single 38-year-old, who is also with the 4th Infantry Division and is helping train the new Iraqi army. ''It's harder over there than it is over here ... doing here what we're always training to do.''

But for those with wives waiting at home, life is a lot lonelier in Iraq.

''Maybe if I were single I'd think about it,'' said Sgt. Dante Legare, 32, of the 4th Infantry Division.

''That's pretty good money ... enough to maybe put a down payment on a house,'' said Legare, a New York City native. ''But is it worth it? I've already been away something like nine months. I want to see my wife.''


01-07-04 19:48EST

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