More On Jane Fonda And The Anti War Movement

>>>>
>Moreover, most of America and many Vietnam Vets believed the war was wrong.

Please provide evidence.
>>>>

I thought it was a well known fact that by 1968 most of america's public
opinions were turing aganist the war.

>>>
As an American and a Vietnam Vet I believe that the United States of America
did the right thing by going to Vietnam.
>>>

And that right thing was to enslave a people under a French colonial rule
when they were asking nothing more than America had asked from King George
of England in 1776? And that right thing was recorded in a document called
the Pentagon Papers. And that right thing made America bankrupt, inflation
skyrocketed, and that right thing destroyed america's war on poverty, health
care, eduction. If Vietnam was the right thing, then why did America fail
despite massive resources: 4.3 million tons of bombs (twice the amount
dropped in WW II), 72 million liters of agent orange, 3 million troops
served, and almost 200 billion dollars in which today dollar with reach 1
trillion dollars. Because the war was wrong, it was unamerica, and it was
against America's founding principle "All Men Are Created Equal".

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 2346 -0600, "unknown"
wrote:

>>>>
>As an American and a Vietnam Vet I believe that the United States of America
>did the right thing by going to Vietnam.
>>>>
>
>And that right thing was to enslave a people under a French colonial rule
>when they were asking nothing more than America had asked from King George
>of England in 1776? And that right thing was recorded in a document called
>the Pentagon Papers. And that right thing made America bankrupt, inflation
>skyrocketed, and that right thing destroyed america's war on poverty, health
>care, eduction. If Vietnam was the right thing, then why did America fail
>despite massive resources: 4.3 million tons of bombs (twice the amount
>dropped in WW II), 72 million liters of agent orange, 3 million troops
>served, and almost 200 billion dollars in which today dollar with reach 1
>trillion dollars. Because the war was wrong, it was unamerica, and it was
>against America's founding principle "All Men Are Created Equal".
>

You have to understand,Ol' fruit, his first wife was Vietnamese and
he remains bitter to this day.
---
Alan

herr_stormtruppen_al_franken@yahoo.de (Adolph Al Franken - Brown Shirt Left Wing Fascist) wrote in message news:<68d92f02.0402101053.3c5e7a6f@posting.google.com>...

> they attacked the young men and women who dutifully went when the
> nation called.

WHEN the nation called.

> Just as most of the 13,000,000 young Americans like
> Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm who didn't do their duty
> and go, choosing instead to dodge the draft, now regret that decision.

The nation had not called these men.

What Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm did (and Cheney, and
Trent Lott and Tom DeLay, and scores of others in politics) was not
draft dodging. You have to be drafted first in order to then dodge
it. Neither student deferments nor getting into the National Guard is
(or was) draft-dodging.

When their student deferments were up, if they had had low lottery
numbers and then were called up and didn't go (and went to Canada or
just didn't present themselves to an induction center), THAT was
"draft dodging".

You really must learn to be accurate with your words. You damage
America and her citizens when you use the language in this way. I
don't know if you mean to be intentionally deceptive or if you just
don't know and are ignorant. But it's time you learned what "draft
dodging" means and stop contributing to the dumbing down of America.

> And no doubt Jane Fonda laments going to the enemy's capital and
> allowing herself to become a photo op with a North Viet gun crew while
> her countrymen were fighting and dying on the orders of their
> president.

An undeclared, illegal war that reasonable, intelligent people agree
was a terrible mistake - you seem to think that American citizens
should have obfuscated our responsibility to not intercede in the
crimes commited by our elected leaders in our names.

Your anger is misplaced. You should focus it on the war criminals
sitting in the halls of power in our government who (for their own
enrichment) send our fellow citizens off to their deaths.

"Alan" wrote in message
news:gsfj20dg71q8klg6jvm9l3mdafu92unmlv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 2346 -0600, "unknown"
> wrote:
>
> >>>>
> >As an American and a Vietnam Vet I believe that the United States of
America
> >did the right thing by going to Vietnam.
> >>>>
> >
> >And that right thing was to enslave a people under a French colonial rule
> >when they were asking nothing more than America had asked from King
George
> >of England in 1776? And that right thing was recorded in a document
called
> >the Pentagon Papers. And that right thing made America bankrupt,
inflation
> >skyrocketed, and that right thing destroyed america's war on poverty,
health
> >care, eduction. If Vietnam was the right thing, then why did America
fail
> >despite massive resources: 4.3 million tons of bombs (twice the amount
> >dropped in WW II), 72 million liters of agent orange, 3 million troops
> >served, and almost 200 billion dollars in which today dollar with reach 1
> >trillion dollars. Because the war was wrong, it was unamerica, and it
was
> >against America's founding principle "All Men Are Created Equal".
> >
>
> You have to understand,Ol' fruit, his first wife was Vietnamese and
> he remains bitter to this day.
> ---
> Alan

Actually I'm quite relieved at this particular point in time

--
Nigel Brooks

"unknown" wrote in message
news:kr6dnUSv3-gDJrTdRVn-hg@comcast.com...
> >>>
> As an American and a Vietnam Vet I believe that the United States of
America
> did the right thing by going to Vietnam.
> >>>
>
> And that right thing was to enslave a people under a French colonial rule
> when they were asking nothing more than America had asked from King George
> of England in 1776? And that right thing was recorded in a document
called
> the Pentagon Papers. And that right thing made America bankrupt,
inflation
> skyrocketed, and that right thing destroyed america's war on poverty,
health
> care, eduction. If Vietnam was the right thing, then why did America fail
> despite massive resources: 4.3 million tons of bombs (twice the amount
> dropped in WW II), 72 million liters of agent orange, 3 million troops
> served, and almost 200 billion dollars in which today dollar with reach 1
> trillion dollars. Because the war was wrong, it was unamerica, and it was
> against America's founding principle "All Men Are Created Equal".
>


Ok it was the wrong thing then. Will that shut you the fuck up?
--
Nigel Brooks

>> As an American and a Vietnam Vet I believe that the United States of Am=
>erica
>> did the right thing by going to Vietnam.
>> =
>
>> Count
>> =
>
>> 1 For
>> =
>
>> Nigel Brooks
>
>Ditto Nigel =
>
>
>2 for 2

Richard & Nigel,

Ditto, make that 3.

Greg

"Morton Davis" wrote in message news:...
> "Ashland Henderson" wrote in message
> news:441d41d1.0402102038.567e175a@posting.google.c om...
> > "Morton Davis" wrote in message
> news:...
> > > "Ashland Henderson" wrote in message
> > > news:441d41d1.0402101519.15b0e959@posting.google.c om...
> > > > herr_stormtruppen_al_franken@yahoo.de (Adolph Al Franken - Brown
> Shirt
> > > Left Wing Fascist) wrote in message
> > > news:<68d92f02.0402101053.3c5e7a6f@posting.google.com>...
> > > > > "unknown" wrote in message
> news:...
> > > > > > http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~hbf/nation.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "1,500 crew members of the USS Constellation signed a petition
> demanding
> > > > > > that Jane Fonda's antiwar show be allowed to perform on board"
> > > > >
> > > > > Post a link.
> > > > >
> > > > > > "At home, veterans led the marches and demonstrations, including
> the
> 1971
> > > > > > assembly of a half-million protesters headed by a thousand Vietnam
> veterans,
> > > > > > many in wheelchairs and on crutches, who paraded up to a barricade
> erected
> > > > > > to keep them from the Capitol and hurled their Purple Hearts,
> Bronze
> Stars,
> > > > > > and Silver Stars at the government that had bestowed them."
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah sure. This was the same gang who spat on Vietnam Vets. The
> same
> > > > > hippies who lied that they were Vietnam Vets to try to get from
> > > > > benefits. Read the book Stolen Valor or go to their web site:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.stolenvalor.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > The book documents how Kerry, Fonda and the other lefties lied and
> > > > > smeared real Vietnam Vets.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.nyjournalnews.com/newsroo...15dadsday.html
> > > > >
> > > > > "I had to fly from San Francisco, Travis Air Force Base, to JFK
> > > > > (airport), but to get the military discount, I had to wear my
> uniform.
> > > > > I can't describe the look of scorn I got from people," said Yonkers
> > > > > resident Harvey Goldberg, who served in the Air Force in Vietnam and
> > > > > whose son, Marine Sgt. David Goldberg, recently returned from Iraq.
> > > > >
> > > > > Williams, the American Legion official, recalled that when he came
> > > > > back from Vietnam in 1969 and landed in San Francisco, he and other
> > > > > Marines ducked into a men's room and took off their uniforms to
> avoid
> > > > > being berated and even spat on by people opposed to the war.
> > > > >
> > > > > "I was so concerned that I told my friend not to tell anyone that I
> > > > > served in Vietnam," he said.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.hackworth.com/12nov96.html
> > > > >
> > > > > During the Vietnam War -- which divided our nation like no conflict
> > > > > except the Civil War -- Peaceniks such as Tom Hayden and Jane Fonda
> > > > > said those who fought there were baby killers and murderers. Upon
> > > > > returning home, our soldiers were abused, spat upon and in many
> cases
> > > > > accused by their WWII and Korean War veteran fathers of being yellow
> > > > > bellied punks who caused our country to lose its first war.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure the Haydens, Fondas and the wrongheaded fathers are now
> sorry
> > > > > they attacked the young men and women who dutifully went when the
> > > > > nation called. Just as most of the 13,000,000 young Americans like
> > > > > Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm who didn't do their duty
> > > > > and go, choosing instead to dodge the draft, now regret that
> decision.
> > > > > And no doubt Jane Fonda laments going to the enemy's capital and
> > > > > allowing herself to become a photo op with a North Viet gun crew
> while
> > > > > her countrymen were fighting and dying on the orders of their
> > > > > president.
> > > >
> > > > All this sillieness is always interesting to me. I was in and out of
> the
> > > > San Francisco airport frequently in 1970 and 1971, in my uniform. I
> was
> > > > generally there on my way to and from visiting friends in Berkeley and
> > > > Oakland. I was never spit on, never received hard, bad, or evil looks,
> > > > and never had a bit of trouble or felt anything but safe and welcome.
> > > > Always makes you wonder how history is rewritten to support this or
> > > > that point someone is trying to make.
> > >
> > > I came and went through Seattle/Tacoma and I never saw anything like
> that
> > > either. More important is that Kerry is a slave to special interests.
> >
> > I'd have to say "As opposed to who?" Pretty much all politicians are
> slaves
> > to special interests. Given Kerry's money I suspect he is less a slave
> than
> > some. I certianly think that the country is in the hands of special
> interests
> > now and I don't think the interests involved give much of a damn about the
> > people.
>
> Describes Kerry quite well.

Bush too.

"Ashland Henderson" wrote in message
news:441d41d1.0402110851.5971a3e3@posting.google.c om...
> "Morton Davis" wrote in message
news:...
> > "Ashland Henderson" wrote in message
> > news:441d41d1.0402102038.567e175a@posting.google.c om...
> > > "Morton Davis" wrote in message
> > news:...
> > > > "Ashland Henderson" wrote in message
> > > > news:441d41d1.0402101519.15b0e959@posting.google.c om...
> > > > > herr_stormtruppen_al_franken@yahoo.de (Adolph Al Franken - Brown
> > Shirt
> > > > Left Wing Fascist) wrote in message
> > > > news:<68d92f02.0402101053.3c5e7a6f@posting.google.com>...
> > > > > > "unknown" wrote in message
> > news:...
> > > > > > > http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~hbf/nation.htm
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "1,500 crew members of the USS Constellation signed a petition
> > demanding
> > > > > > > that Jane Fonda's antiwar show be allowed to perform on board"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Post a link.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > "At home, veterans led the marches and demonstrations,
including
> > the
> > 1971
> > > > > > > assembly of a half-million protesters headed by a thousand
Vietnam
> > veterans,
> > > > > > > many in wheelchairs and on crutches, who paraded up to a
barricade
> > erected
> > > > > > > to keep them from the Capitol and hurled their Purple Hearts,
> > Bronze
> > Stars,
> > > > > > > and Silver Stars at the government that had bestowed them."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah sure. This was the same gang who spat on Vietnam Vets.
The
> > same
> > > > > > hippies who lied that they were Vietnam Vets to try to get from
> > > > > > benefits. Read the book Stolen Valor or go to their web site:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.stolenvalor.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The book documents how Kerry, Fonda and the other lefties lied
and
> > > > > > smeared real Vietnam Vets.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.nyjournalnews.com/newsroo...15dadsday.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "I had to fly from San Francisco, Travis Air Force Base, to JFK
> > > > > > (airport), but to get the military discount, I had to wear my
> > uniform.
> > > > > > I can't describe the look of scorn I got from people," said
Yonkers
> > > > > > resident Harvey Goldberg, who served in the Air Force in Vietnam
and
> > > > > > whose son, Marine Sgt. David Goldberg, recently returned from
Iraq.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Williams, the American Legion official, recalled that when he
came
> > > > > > back from Vietnam in 1969 and landed in San Francisco, he and
other
> > > > > > Marines ducked into a men's room and took off their uniforms to
> > avoid
> > > > > > being berated and even spat on by people opposed to the war.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "I was so concerned that I told my friend not to tell anyone
that I
> > > > > > served in Vietnam," he said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.hackworth.com/12nov96.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > During the Vietnam War -- which divided our nation like no
conflict
> > > > > > except the Civil War -- Peaceniks such as Tom Hayden and Jane
Fonda
> > > > > > said those who fought there were baby killers and murderers.
Upon
> > > > > > returning home, our soldiers were abused, spat upon and in many
> > cases
> > > > > > accused by their WWII and Korean War veteran fathers of being
yellow
> > > > > > bellied punks who caused our country to lose its first war.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sure the Haydens, Fondas and the wrongheaded fathers are now
> > sorry
> > > > > > they attacked the young men and women who dutifully went when
the
> > > > > > nation called. Just as most of the 13,000,000 young Americans
like
> > > > > > Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm who didn't do their
duty
> > > > > > and go, choosing instead to dodge the draft, now regret that
> > decision.
> > > > > > And no doubt Jane Fonda laments going to the enemy's capital and
> > > > > > allowing herself to become a photo op with a North Viet gun crew
> > while
> > > > > > her countrymen were fighting and dying on the orders of their
> > > > > > president.
> > > > >
> > > > > All this sillieness is always interesting to me. I was in and out
of
> > the
> > > > > San Francisco airport frequently in 1970 and 1971, in my uniform.
I
> > was
> > > > > generally there on my way to and from visiting friends in Berkeley
and
> > > > > Oakland. I was never spit on, never received hard, bad, or evil
looks,
> > > > > and never had a bit of trouble or felt anything but safe and
welcome.
> > > > > Always makes you wonder how history is rewritten to support this
or
> > > > > that point someone is trying to make.
> > > >
> > > > I came and went through Seattle/Tacoma and I never saw anything
like
> > that
> > > > either. More important is that Kerry is a slave to special
interests.
> > >
> > > I'd have to say "As opposed to who?" Pretty much all politicians are
> > slaves
> > > to special interests. Given Kerry's money I suspect he is less a slave
> > than
> > > some. I certianly think that the country is in the hands of special
> > interests
> > > now and I don't think the interests involved give much of a damn about
the
> > > people.
> >
> > Describes Kerry quite well.
>
> Bush too.

CITE.

-*MORT*-

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:54:39 -0600, "unknown"
wrote:

>>>>
>Which is it, a thousand vets or half a million?
>>>>>
>
>My apologize for not read the fine print correctly, but it is not make much
>of a different whether a thounsand vets or half a million protesters showed
>up at the Mall. They are all american, and there were more than half a
>million showed up to oppose the war. Moreover, most of America and many
>Vietnam Vets believed the war was wrong.
Well - so did Ho Chi Minh.

Why should we believe that a bunch of left wing anti-American
communists were correct? When the anti-war movement got it's way,
thousands of Vietnamese were slaughtered at the hands of their new
communist oppressors. But you've never really taken responsibility
for the deaths of those women and children - have ya?
Regards,

>