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Old 01-10-2004, 07:02 PM
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Question Warfare - The Edge

War, endless freakin' dad gum war... used to think there was a way to end IT... stupid human trick I played on myself.

What, though, IS it that puts a man to where he goes from a simple difference of opinion to blows, to death, to suffering and to destruction of all things good and safe... what IS it? Where does that edge fall, where do we find it, how do we recognize it... can it be avoided... MUST we have it? Why, why, why... or must we be the warriors, who can only say that it IS, therefore... so so so hard to do, so hard hard... or have we already become it...

Is it just a personal threshhold? Is it something eternal like the sky? Is it God's will we must obey?

on land
in the sky
on the sea
in our hearts and minds

Even if we could know, would it matter?

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Old 01-11-2004, 10:13 AM
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I don't think we can "blame" our failures on God. He gave us all the knowledge and resources we need to become the most successful species on this planet. However we also developed what other species don't have, ego. Somewhere there is always someone who thinks he has all the answers and we must follow his ideas...or he'll kill us. Naturally, if we don't agree, we're forced to fight back. The old saying is that "Money is the root of all evil". I disagree. The lust for power is worse. Money, if you have the knowledge and talent, is relatively easy to accumulate, but the idea that you can literally control lives (sort of God-like) is the real failure factor. Once someone gets it into his head that, his whims should be the order of the day, then watch out! Hussein is a perfect example. With the oil resouces of Iraq, he could've been easily satisfied with running just that country, but the lust for power drove him to attack Iran and Kuwait, kill tens of thousands of potential threats and, under the guise of Islam, attempt to take over or control the entire mideast and make a long range bid for world domination. Face it, mankind is its own worst enemy.
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Old 01-11-2004, 05:06 PM
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Yeah Dan... we often say God gave us the right way and another choice, which is too often taken... why in the frick do we too often choose war?

I dunno man... warriors tell me that it just IS, so that's what we deal with when it comes down... I believe they are right on that.... I never wanted to be a warrior Dan... seems like I must be now I guess... is there ANY thing I am missing on this deal here now?
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Old 01-12-2004, 05:58 AM
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I don't know the answer either. On a daily basis, I read newspapers and watch local and network broadcasts and end up just sitting there with a dropped jaw and shaking my head at the extreme stupidity of some people. Then I want to pull a blanket over my head and hope that it'll all go away, but it never does. The only thing I ever wanted to control is my own life and I can only do that on a very basic level as there are too many people making decisions for me on the govenmental level. I just try to live as good a life as I can, help people whenever possible, vote in every election (a feeble attempt at having a say at the governmental level), and live by the Golden Rule.

It will take many more generations before we finally come to our collective senses, give ourselves and dope slap, and ask ourselves, "What the hell were we thinking?!" Then maybe mankind will have a chance. Until then, we just do the best we can.
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Old 01-12-2004, 12:44 PM
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Nope my brother, it never does go away... it just never ever does.

We do the best we can...
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Old 01-27-2004, 01:38 AM
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Just my two cents worth.

War's hell, for sure. And no one hates war as much as a warrior. But wouldn't you agree that there has to be a time that you stand up and say no, even if it means that you'll have to put yourself in harm's way?

I often equate our military interventions to save other countries (sometimes from their selves) as being a man who comes upon a woman being raped. There are no cops around. We are her only means of salvation. We have only two choices. We can wade in and assist her, and, if need be, fight her attacker off at risk to ourselves or we can stand feebly by and watch the rape. And if we DO NOTHING, does that not make us complicit in that rape, at least by our refusal to try to stop it?

Now, being a man raised to believe in personal integrity and the need to stand up when the need arises, I would have a hell of a time living with myself if I were to stand idly by when there was something I could do. And when you get right down to it, I at least, joined the military to protect and serve my country and those with whom my country had decided it was our responsibility to defend as well.

So yeah...that means that sometimes you have to war upon others. Sometimes you have to accept that warring on others can be painful. It's never the easy choice. We leave our homes and our loves and our lives to become avenging angels of sorts, and sometimes we're portrayed as a plague of devils. But angels or devils, we've helped a hell of a lot of people in the past 228 years.

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Old 01-27-2004, 04:11 AM
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Yes Jake, there does have to come a time when a man just has to stand up and say, "NO!"... there surely does. very very true.

And, Welcome aboard yourself...

Stay long, talk much.
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Old 01-27-2004, 08:06 AM
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Bluehawk:

Glad to be aboard. Always an honor to be in the company of those who've served.

I've often felt that there must be a special heaven for those who've selflessly dedicated their lives to the military service of this or, indeed any country. There you find people of conscience and of duty who, even though they might personally disagree with a particular politic of the moment, march off to do the job they swore to do.

The line that has always touched me most in my enlistment oaths (seemed to me they were like booster shots every 4 years) was "to protect and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic." In this one phrase, we commit ourselves to the fight that our nation has decided to fight. We surrender our will to the greater Will of the nation and, while we personally might think that there might be another way, we follow our legal orders as best we can. Sometimes the Will of the nation changes, as it did in Vietnam, and we come home to train and become better prepared to fight the good fight another day. But until it does, we do our duty and take that "spoonful of sugar" to help the medicine go down.

I was in Libya, Vietnam, Turkey and Germany during my 20 years. And during my 20 years, there was no time when there wasn't a war SOMEPLACE on the planet. Historians can tell us that there has been a war someplace on the planet for virtually all of its existence. Even for a peace-loving nation whose military trains defensively for eventual offensive action, sooner or later, the odds are we too will be involved.

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Old 01-27-2004, 10:11 AM
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Jake -
I'm gonna say Welcome Home to ya now...

Yer sounded a damn sight too much like meself bro... but I, for one, am mighty glad you are here for us dyslexic pre-alzheimers.

Scout and Scamp, Tamaroa, Bones, Doc, ColMurph, Little Sparrow, Griz, LT, Mortardue, exlrrp.... so many more are good guys Jake, fine leaders, listen to them and sound off. We got some real good fighters on here, with time in like you. You are among true friends Jake.

Cannot claim to have "selflessly served" bro, I was only 17, did not know shit about feces or pouring piss out of a boot. However, what unites us here is our beloved motherland and the promise of true democracy. It's up to us now, eh?
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