Wash. Times: "Navy Pilot's Fate Looks Grim" (Speicher)

Does anyone have the full article?

For some reason, my browser will not download the full article from the
Washington Times website.

Apparently the report says the famous Iraqi defector who claimed to have
information about Speicher is a "born liar."

QUOTE

A secret Pentagon report states that once-promising leads in the hunt for
Capt. Michael Scott Speicher in Iraq have turned up no evidence of his
whereabouts, contradicting public official comments that the search was
producing positive results.

END QUOTE
--
----
JAS

"JAS" wrote in message
news:bf36h701n7f@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Does anyone have the full article?
>
> For some reason, my browser will not download the full article from the
> Washington Times website.
>
> Apparently the report says the famous Iraqi defector who claimed to have
> information about Speicher is a "born liar."
>
> QUOTE
>
> A secret Pentagon report states that once-promising leads in the hunt for
> Capt. Michael Scott Speicher in Iraq have turned up no evidence of his
> whereabouts, contradicting public official comments that the search was
> producing positive results.
>
> END QUOTE
> --
> ----
> JAS
>
>

Well, I finally got the full article.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...4916-4526r.htm


QUOTE

Navy pilot's fate now looks grim


By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES



A secret Pentagon report states that once-promising leads in the hunt
for Capt. Michael Scott Speicher in Iraq have turned up no evidence of his
whereabouts, contradicting public official comments that the search was
producing positive results.
The classified document also cast serious doubt on the credibility of
the Iraqi defector who first raised hopes in the United States that the Navy
pilot was alive and a captive in Iraq after his plane was shot down in 1991.
The defector claims to have seen Capt. Speicher alive in 1998. But
Iraqis interviewed by U.S. investigators say he is lying, according to the
report prepared for Gen. Richard B. Myers, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman.
The internal report, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington
Times, quotes one Iraqi as saying the defector is a "born liar." U.S.
officials are said to now have serious questions about the unnamed
defector's veracity.
"No significant evidence of [Capt. Speicher´s] status has been
discovered," says the two-page classified report dated June 23. It says
investigators have obtained an "alleged Speicher flight suit," which is
being examined for DNA evidence.
The report presents a much more pessimistic outlook for the search than
has been generally presented in public by some U.S. congressmen who have
received official briefings.
Sen. Bill Nelson, Florida Democrat, said he saw classified information
on a trip to Iraq that made him think the mystery would be solved. Sen. Pat
Roberts, Kansas Republican, made similar upbeat comments.
A day after the date of the Pentagon report, titled "Personnel Recovery
Efforts in Support of Capt. Speicher," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld
was asked about the Speicher search at a Pentagon press conference.
"I read two reports today, and what they told me is that the senior
people involved in, I guess the Iraqi Survey Group, are focused on this
issue, attentive to it. ... There is nothing that has been turned up thus
far that I could elaborate on that would be appropriate."
The report is stamped "secret" and written as an update on the extensive
search for the pilot, whose F-18 was shot down during Desert Storm.
The report reveals that the main source for a report last year that
Capt. Speicher survived the crash is a defector from Saddam Hussein's
Special Security Organization (SSO), which maintained the dictator's rule in
Baghdad.
The defector, whom U.S. officials call "defector No. 2314," provided
names of witnesses who he says support his story. But when contacted by the
U.S. search team, the Iraqis deny the defector's account.
"None of the information provided by 2314 has proven accurate," the
Pentagon report states.
The hunt for Capt. Speicher is one of the Bush administration's chief
postwar inquiries, topped only by the search for Saddam's weapons of mass
destruction.
The Iraq Survey Group, a large team put together to collect and analyze
intelligence in Iraq, contains a cell devoted to solving the Speicher
mystery and other missing-in-action cases.
The cell looking for Capt. Speicher has 15 personnel at the Defense
Intelligence Agency in Washington. They are aided by the CIA, the National
Imagery and Mapping Agency, and six other cell personnel working in Iraq.
The pilot was shot down on Desert Storm's first day, Jan. 17, 1991. He
appeared to have ejected, raising speculation he landed in the desert and
was taken prisoner, but originally was listed as killed in action.
But the defector's story, in part, prompted the Navy to change his
status to missing-captured and to promote him from commander to the rank of
captain.
This information created a storm of prewar news coverage that Saddam
might still be holding an American he was supposed to release, with all
other prisoners of war, after the March 1991 cease-fire.
But the secret Pentagon report lists a number of leads that turned out
to be bogus:
.Defector No. 2314 provided the names of several doctors who he said had
knowledge of Capt. Speicher's whereabouts. "All denied having any knowledge;
two have passed a polygraph exam," the Pentagon report says.
.The defector said his supervisor at SSO also knew of Capt. Speicher's
imprisonment. But the supervisor denied this, passed a polygraph and called
No. 2314 "a born liar."
.The source said a psychiatrist at the Rashid prison worked there during
Capt. Speicher's purported captivity. But the psychiatrist "denied any
knowledge."
.U.S. Central Command has recovered thousands of POW-related files in
Iraq. "To date, analysts have found only one reference to Speicher. The
reference indicates he ejected and lists his status as 'unknown.' "
The report says a search team tried to reach the crash site in mid-June,
after the successful U.S.-led war to overthrow Saddam but was foiled by
enemy fire.
It has previously been reported that investigators found the initials
"MSS" on a cell wall in the Hakimiyah prison. Criminal investigators
speculated that MSS might stand for Michael Scott Speicher, but made no
determination.
Concludes the report, "U.S. CentCom has searched every known location
associated with Speicher. Other than at Hakimiyah prison, where U.S. forces
found the initials 'MSS' carved in a cell wall, no significant evidence of
his status has been discovered."
As next steps, the Army's Criminal Investigative Command is examining
items taken from Hakimiyah prison. The items include sponges, clothing,
shoes and manacles.
"Process consists of cataloging, chemical and DNA analysis and will take
weeks to months to complete," the secret report says.
The Iraq Survey Group cell was also to interview an ethnic Iraqi U.S.
citizen who had been held at another Baghdad prison, Abu Ghurab. "This
individual reported to U.S. Marines that he heard Iraqi guards discussing
the 'U.S. pilot.' "
The paper says the cell administered a polygraph exam to the defector,
but it does not give the results. It says the military has asked the CIA "to
conduct an independent polygraph of 2314."
A CIA spokesman yesterday said the agency does not comment on polygraph
issues.

END QUOTE




--
----
JAS

JAS, notice that the report did not give the results of the polygraph
given to the defector( near end of article). I only have about $200 in
my "savings account" but I will bet it all that he passed a polygraph
test(probably more than once). Also notice that the report did not ask
the CIA to do an independent polygraph of the only three(among the
several names he gave us) who passed "their" polygraph"...just the
defector.

As we all know, polographs are only as good as those who are giving
them and it appears to me that the report got the results it wanted
from the 3 Iraqis who passed "their" test ...but not the results they
wanted from the defector.

Donna Long







JAS" wrote in message news:...
> "JAS" wrote in message
> news:bf36h701n7f@enews2.newsguy.com...
> > Does anyone have the full article?
> >
> > For some reason, my browser will not download the full article from the
> > Washington Times website.
> >
> > Apparently the report says the famous Iraqi defector who claimed to have
> > information about Speicher is a "born liar."
> >
> > QUOTE
> >
> > A secret Pentagon report states that once-promising leads in the hunt for
> > Capt. Michael Scott Speicher in Iraq have turned up no evidence of his
> > whereabouts, contradicting public official comments that the search was
> > producing positive results.
> >
> > END QUOTE
> > --
> > ----
> > JAS
> >
> >
>
> Well, I finally got the full article.
>
> http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...4916-4526r.htm
>
>
> QUOTE
>
> Navy pilot's fate now looks grim
>
>
> By Rowan Scarborough
> THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>
>
>
> A secret Pentagon report states that once-promising leads in the hunt
> for Capt. Michael Scott Speicher in Iraq have turned up no evidence of his
> whereabouts, contradicting public official comments that the search was
> producing positive results.
> The classified document also cast serious doubt on the credibility of
> the Iraqi defector who first raised hopes in the United States that the Navy
> pilot was alive and a captive in Iraq after his plane was shot down in 1991.
> The defector claims to have seen Capt. Speicher alive in 1998. But
> Iraqis interviewed by U.S. investigators say he is lying, according to the
> report prepared for Gen. Richard B. Myers, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman.
> The internal report, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington
> Times, quotes one Iraqi as saying the defector is a "born liar." U.S.
> officials are said to now have serious questions about the unnamed
> defector's veracity.
> "No significant evidence of [Capt. Speicher´s] status has been
> discovered," says the two-page classified report dated June 23. It says
> investigators have obtained an "alleged Speicher flight suit," which is
> being examined for DNA evidence.
> The report presents a much more pessimistic outlook for the search than
> has been generally presented in public by some U.S. congressmen who have
> received official briefings.
> Sen. Bill Nelson, Florida Democrat, said he saw classified information
> on a trip to Iraq that made him think the mystery would be solved. Sen. Pat
> Roberts, Kansas Republican, made similar upbeat comments.
> A day after the date of the Pentagon report, titled "Personnel Recovery
> Efforts in Support of Capt. Speicher," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld
> was asked about the Speicher search at a Pentagon press conference.
> "I read two reports today, and what they told me is that the senior
> people involved in, I guess the Iraqi Survey Group, are focused on this
> issue, attentive to it. ... There is nothing that has been turned up thus
> far that I could elaborate on that would be appropriate."
> The report is stamped "secret" and written as an update on the extensive
> search for the pilot, whose F-18 was shot down during Desert Storm.
> The report reveals that the main source for a report last year that
> Capt. Speicher survived the crash is a defector from Saddam Hussein's
> Special Security Organization (SSO), which maintained the dictator's rule in
> Baghdad.
> The defector, whom U.S. officials call "defector No. 2314," provided
> names of witnesses who he says support his story. But when contacted by the
> U.S. search team, the Iraqis deny the defector's account.
> "None of the information provided by 2314 has proven accurate," the
> Pentagon report states.
> The hunt for Capt. Speicher is one of the Bush administration's chief
> postwar inquiries, topped only by the search for Saddam's weapons of mass
> destruction.
> The Iraq Survey Group, a large team put together to collect and analyze
> intelligence in Iraq, contains a cell devoted to solving the Speicher
> mystery and other missing-in-action cases.
> The cell looking for Capt. Speicher has 15 personnel at the Defense
> Intelligence Agency in Washington. They are aided by the CIA, the National
> Imagery and Mapping Agency, and six other cell personnel working in Iraq.
> The pilot was shot down on Desert Storm's first day, Jan. 17, 1991. He
> appeared to have ejected, raising speculation he landed in the desert and
> was taken prisoner, but originally was listed as killed in action.
> But the defector's story, in part, prompted the Navy to change his
> status to missing-captured and to promote him from commander to the rank of
> captain.
> This information created a storm of prewar news coverage that Saddam
> might still be holding an American he was supposed to release, with all
> other prisoners of war, after the March 1991 cease-fire.
> But the secret Pentagon report lists a number of leads that turned out
> to be bogus:
> .Defector No. 2314 provided the names of several doctors who he said had
> knowledge of Capt. Speicher's whereabouts. "All denied having any knowledge;
> two have passed a polygraph exam," the Pentagon report says.
> .The defector said his supervisor at SSO also knew of Capt. Speicher's
> imprisonment. But the supervisor denied this, passed a polygraph and called
> No. 2314 "a born liar."
> .The source said a psychiatrist at the Rashid prison worked there during
> Capt. Speicher's purported captivity. But the psychiatrist "denied any
> knowledge."
> .U.S. Central Command has recovered thousands of POW-related files in
> Iraq. "To date, analysts have found only one reference to Speicher. The
> reference indicates he ejected and lists his status as 'unknown.' "
> The report says a search team tried to reach the crash site in mid-June,
> after the successful U.S.-led war to overthrow Saddam but was foiled by
> enemy fire.
> It has previously been reported that investigators found the initials
> "MSS" on a cell wall in the Hakimiyah prison. Criminal investigators
> speculated that MSS might stand for Michael Scott Speicher, but made no
> determination.
> Concludes the report, "U.S. CentCom has searched every known location
> associated with Speicher. Other than at Hakimiyah prison, where U.S. forces
> found the initials 'MSS' carved in a cell wall, no significant evidence of
> his status has been discovered."
> As next steps, the Army's Criminal Investigative Command is examining
> items taken from Hakimiyah prison. The items include sponges, clothing,
> shoes and manacles.
> "Process consists of cataloging, chemical and DNA analysis and will take
> weeks to months to complete," the secret report says.
> The Iraq Survey Group cell was also to interview an ethnic Iraqi U.S.
> citizen who had been held at another Baghdad prison, Abu Ghurab. "This
> individual reported to U.S. Marines that he heard Iraqi guards discussing
> the 'U.S. pilot.' "
> The paper says the cell administered a polygraph exam to the defector,
> but it does not give the results. It says the military has asked the CIA "to
> conduct an independent polygraph of 2314."
> A CIA spokesman yesterday said the agency does not comment on polygraph
> issues.
>
> END QUOTE
>
>
>
>
> --
> ----
> JAS
>
>
>
> begin 666 clear.gif
> M1TE&.#EA"@`*`( ``/___P```"'Y! $`````+ `````*``H```((A(^IR^T/
> $8RL`.P``
> `
> end
>
> begin 666 twt-grey2.gif
> M1TE&.#EA"@`*`( ``)VKQ ```"'Y! ``````+ `````*``H```((A(^IR^T/
> $8RL`.P``
> `
> end

While it may be true that "polygraphs are only as good as those who are
giving them " - every federal agency which utilizes the polygraph is subject
to rigorous standards and quality assurance. There standards required of an
examiner are quite stringent and the training initially is around 6 months,
with continuing training throughout the examiners career. Each agency sets
up quality assurance guidelines and the examinations are subjected to "peer
review" where the examiner is required to submit the examination and his or
her analysis of the examination. People who don't measure up are given an
opportunity to retrain and if they continue to screw up they are re-assigned
to other duties.

A more accurate comment would be that a polygraph is only as good as the
questions asked. Such as in the case of the celebrity or public figure who
is accused of wrongdoing - takes a polygraph at his or her own expense - and
announces that they have passed. Well sure they passed - but where they
asked the appropriate questions.

--
Nigel Brooks


"Donna Long" wrote in message
news:b55a4c1b.0307170206.19875679@posting.google.c om...
> JAS, notice that the report did not give the results of the polygraph
> given to the defector( near end of article). I only have about $200 in
> my "savings account" but I will bet it all that he passed a polygraph
> test(probably more than once). Also notice that the report did not ask
> the CIA to do an independent polygraph of the only three(among the
> several names he gave us) who passed "their" polygraph"...just the
> defector.
>
> As we all know, polographs are only as good as those who are giving
> them and it appears to me that the report got the results it wanted
> from the 3 Iraqis who passed "their" test ...but not the results they
> wanted from the defector.
>
> Donna Long
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> JAS" wrote in message
news:...
> > "JAS" wrote in message
> > news:bf36h701n7f@enews2.newsguy.com...
> > > Does anyone have the full article?
> > >
> > > For some reason, my browser will not download the full article from
the
> > > Washington Times website.
> > >
> > > Apparently the report says the famous Iraqi defector who claimed to
have
> > > information about Speicher is a "born liar."
> > >
> > > QUOTE
> > >
> > > A secret Pentagon report states that once-promising leads in the hunt
for
> > > Capt. Michael Scott Speicher in Iraq have turned up no evidence of his
> > > whereabouts, contradicting public official comments that the search
was
> > > producing positive results.
> > >
> > > END QUOTE
> > > --
> > > ----
> > > JAS
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Well, I finally got the full article.
> >
> > http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...4916-4526r.htm
> >
> >
> > QUOTE
> >
> > Navy pilot's fate now looks grim
> >
> >
> > By Rowan Scarborough
> > THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> >
> >
> >
> > A secret Pentagon report states that once-promising leads in the
hunt
> > for Capt. Michael Scott Speicher in Iraq have turned up no evidence of
his
> > whereabouts, contradicting public official comments that the search was
> > producing positive results.
> > The classified document also cast serious doubt on the credibility
of
> > the Iraqi defector who first raised hopes in the United States that the
Navy
> > pilot was alive and a captive in Iraq after his plane was shot down in
1991.
> > The defector claims to have seen Capt. Speicher alive in 1998. But
> > Iraqis interviewed by U.S. investigators say he is lying, according to
the
> > report prepared for Gen. Richard B. Myers, Joint Chiefs of Staff
chairman.
> > The internal report, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington
> > Times, quotes one Iraqi as saying the defector is a "born liar." U.S.
> > officials are said to now have serious questions about the unnamed
> > defector's veracity.
> > "No significant evidence of [Capt. Speicher´s] status has been
> > discovered," says the two-page classified report dated June 23. It says
> > investigators have obtained an "alleged Speicher flight suit," which is
> > being examined for DNA evidence.
> > The report presents a much more pessimistic outlook for the search
than
> > has been generally presented in public by some U.S. congressmen who have
> > received official briefings.
> > Sen. Bill Nelson, Florida Democrat, said he saw classified
information
> > on a trip to Iraq that made him think the mystery would be solved. Sen.
Pat
> > Roberts, Kansas Republican, made similar upbeat comments.
> > A day after the date of the Pentagon report, titled "Personnel
Recovery
> > Efforts in Support of Capt. Speicher," Defense Secretary Donald H.
Rumsfeld
> > was asked about the Speicher search at a Pentagon press conference.
> > "I read two reports today, and what they told me is that the senior
> > people involved in, I guess the Iraqi Survey Group, are focused on this
> > issue, attentive to it. ... There is nothing that has been turned up
thus
> > far that I could elaborate on that would be appropriate."
> > The report is stamped "secret" and written as an update on the
extensive
> > search for the pilot, whose F-18 was shot down during Desert Storm.
> > The report reveals that the main source for a report last year that
> > Capt. Speicher survived the crash is a defector from Saddam Hussein's
> > Special Security Organization (SSO), which maintained the dictator's
rule in
> > Baghdad.
> > The defector, whom U.S. officials call "defector No. 2314," provided
> > names of witnesses who he says support his story. But when contacted by
the
> > U.S. search team, the Iraqis deny the defector's account.
> > "None of the information provided by 2314 has proven accurate," the
> > Pentagon report states.
> > The hunt for Capt. Speicher is one of the Bush administration's
chief
> > postwar inquiries, topped only by the search for Saddam's weapons of
mass
> > destruction.
> > The Iraq Survey Group, a large team put together to collect and
analyze
> > intelligence in Iraq, contains a cell devoted to solving the Speicher
> > mystery and other missing-in-action cases.
> > The cell looking for Capt. Speicher has 15 personnel at the Defense
> > Intelligence Agency in Washington. They are aided by the CIA, the
National
> > Imagery and Mapping Agency, and six other cell personnel working in
Iraq.
> > The pilot was shot down on Desert Storm's first day, Jan. 17, 1991.
He
> > appeared to have ejected, raising speculation he landed in the desert
and
> > was taken prisoner, but originally was listed as killed in action.
> > But the defector's story, in part, prompted the Navy to change his
> > status to missing-captured and to promote him from commander to the rank
of
> > captain.
> > This information created a storm of prewar news coverage that Saddam
> > might still be holding an American he was supposed to release, with all
> > other prisoners of war, after the March 1991 cease-fire.
> > But the secret Pentagon report lists a number of leads that turned
out
> > to be bogus:
> > .Defector No. 2314 provided the names of several doctors who he said
had
> > knowledge of Capt. Speicher's whereabouts. "All denied having any
knowledge;
> > two have passed a polygraph exam," the Pentagon report says.
> > .The defector said his supervisor at SSO also knew of Capt.
Speicher's
> > imprisonment. But the supervisor denied this, passed a polygraph and
called
> > No. 2314 "a born liar."
> > .The source said a psychiatrist at the Rashid prison worked there
during
> > Capt. Speicher's purported captivity. But the psychiatrist "denied any
> > knowledge."
> > .U.S. Central Command has recovered thousands of POW-related files
in
> > Iraq. "To date, analysts have found only one reference to Speicher. The
> > reference indicates he ejected and lists his status as 'unknown.' "
> > The report says a search team tried to reach the crash site in
mid-June,
> > after the successful U.S.-led war to overthrow Saddam but was foiled by
> > enemy fire.
> > It has previously been reported that investigators found the
initials
> > "MSS" on a cell wall in the Hakimiyah prison. Criminal investigators
> > speculated that MSS might stand for Michael Scott Speicher, but made no
> > determination.
> > Concludes the report, "U.S. CentCom has searched every known
location
> > associated with Speicher. Other than at Hakimiyah prison, where U.S.
forces
> > found the initials 'MSS' carved in a cell wall, no significant evidence
of
> > his status has been discovered."
> > As next steps, the Army's Criminal Investigative Command is
examining
> > items taken from Hakimiyah prison. The items include sponges, clothing,
> > shoes and manacles.
> > "Process consists of cataloging, chemical and DNA analysis and will
take
> > weeks to months to complete," the secret report says.
> > The Iraq Survey Group cell was also to interview an ethnic Iraqi
U.S.
> > citizen who had been held at another Baghdad prison, Abu Ghurab. "This
> > individual reported to U.S. Marines that he heard Iraqi guards
discussing
> > the 'U.S. pilot.' "
> > The paper says the cell administered a polygraph exam to the
defector,
> > but it does not give the results. It says the military has asked the CIA
"to
> > conduct an independent polygraph of 2314."
> > A CIA spokesman yesterday said the agency does not comment on
polygraph
> > issues.
> >
> > END QUOTE
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ----
> > JAS
> >
> >
> >
> > begin 666 clear.gif
> > M1TE&.#EA"@`*`( ``/___P```"'Y! $`````+ `````*``H```((A(^IR^T/
> > $8RL`.P``
> > `
> > end
> >
> > begin 666 twt-grey2.gif
> > M1TE&.#EA"@`*`( ``)VKQ ```"'Y! ``````+ `````*``H```((A(^IR^T/
> > $8RL`.P``
> > `
> > end

longd88@earthlink.net (Donna Long) wrote in message news:...
> JAS, notice that the report did not give the results of the polygraph
> given to the defector( near end of article). I only have about $200 in
> my "savings account" but I will bet it all that he passed a polygraph
> test(probably more than once). Also notice that the report did not ask
> the CIA to do an independent polygraph of the only three(among the
> several names he gave us) who passed "their" polygraph"...just the
> defector.
>
> As we all know, polographs are only as good as those who are giving
> them and it appears to me that the report got the results it wanted
> from the 3 Iraqis who passed "their" test ...but not the results they
> wanted from the defector.
>
> Donna Long
>

You'll notice also that the report clearly states:

*"No significant evidence of [Capt. Speicher´s] status has been
discovered," says the two-page classified report dated June 23.

That would seem to pretty much cover it.

I'll have to say, the report raises a few questions in my mind
too. How did the Washington Times get their hands on a SECRET
document? Someone is responsible for this security breach. Why do
you suppose?

And then there's this: "The report says a search team tried to
reach the crash site in mid-June, after the successful U.S.-led war to
overthrow Saddam but was foiled by enemy fire. " The US Military in
Iraq can't get to the crash site? That's hard to believe.

Thank you , Nigel, for introducing a splash of reality.

Then, there is the intractable problem of cross-cultural polygraphs.

The "polygraph" is a Western invention and concept, based on the Western
cultural idea of "truth" and the supposed reaction of people when they do
not tell the truth. In many cultures, not appearing disagreeable is more
important than "telling the truth." Thus, individuals from other cultures
may respond positively or negatively to the questions on a polygraph exam
depending on whether or not they want to please the person administering the
polygraph.

All of which explains why the polygraph is an investigative tool, not a
definitive bit of evidence.

--

----

Joe S.

"Nigel Brooks ²°°³®©" wrote in message
news:bf6h9b$b27hv$1@ID-74999.news.uni-berlin.de...
> While it may be true that "polygraphs are only as good as those who are
> giving them " - every federal agency which utilizes the polygraph is
subject
> to rigorous standards and quality assurance. There standards required of
an
> examiner are quite stringent and the training initially is around 6
months,
> with continuing training throughout the examiners career. Each agency
sets
> up quality assurance guidelines and the examinations are subjected to
"peer
> review" where the examiner is required to submit the examination and his
or
> her analysis of the examination. People who don't measure up are given an
> opportunity to retrain and if they continue to screw up they are
re-assigned
> to other duties.
>
> A more accurate comment would be that a polygraph is only as good as the
> questions asked. Such as in the case of the celebrity or public figure
who
> is accused of wrongdoing - takes a polygraph at his or her own expense -
and
> announces that they have passed. Well sure they passed - but where they
> asked the appropriate questions.
>
> --
> Nigel Brooks
>
>
> "Donna Long" wrote in message
> news:b55a4c1b.0307170206.19875679@posting.google.c om...
> > JAS, notice that the report did not give the results of the polygraph
> > given to the defector( near end of article). I only have about $200 in
> > my "savings account" but I will bet it all that he passed a polygraph
> > test(probably more than once). Also notice that the report did not ask
> > the CIA to do an independent polygraph of the only three(among the
> > several names he gave us) who passed "their" polygraph"...just the
> > defector.
> >
> > As we all know, polographs are only as good as those who are giving
> > them and it appears to me that the report got the results it wanted
> > from the 3 Iraqis who passed "their" test ...but not the results they
> > wanted from the defector.
> >
> > Donna Long
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > JAS" wrote in message
> news:...
> > > "JAS" wrote in message
> > > news:bf36h701n7f@enews2.newsguy.com...
> > > > Does anyone have the full article?
> > > >
> > > > For some reason, my browser will not download the full article from
> the
> > > > Washington Times website.
> > > >
> > > > Apparently the report says the famous Iraqi defector who claimed to
> have
> > > > information about Speicher is a "born liar."
> > > >
> > > > QUOTE
> > > >
> > > > A secret Pentagon report states that once-promising leads in the
hunt
> for
> > > > Capt. Michael Scott Speicher in Iraq have turned up no evidence of
his
> > > > whereabouts, contradicting public official comments that the search
> was
> > > > producing positive results.
> > > >
> > > > END QUOTE
> > > > --
> > > > ----
> > > > JAS
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, I finally got the full article.
> > >
> > > http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...4916-4526r.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > QUOTE
> > >
> > > Navy pilot's fate now looks grim
> > >
> > >
> > > By Rowan Scarborough
> > > THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A secret Pentagon report states that once-promising leads in the
> hunt
> > > for Capt. Michael Scott Speicher in Iraq have turned up no evidence of
> his
> > > whereabouts, contradicting public official comments that the search
was
> > > producing positive results.
> > > The classified document also cast serious doubt on the credibility
> of
> > > the Iraqi defector who first raised hopes in the United States that
the
> Navy
> > > pilot was alive and a captive in Iraq after his plane was shot down in
> 1991.
> > > The defector claims to have seen Capt. Speicher alive in 1998. But
> > > Iraqis interviewed by U.S. investigators say he is lying, according to
> the
> > > report prepared for Gen. Richard B. Myers, Joint Chiefs of Staff
> chairman.
> > > The internal report, a copy of which was obtained by The
Washington
> > > Times, quotes one Iraqi as saying the defector is a "born liar." U.S.
> > > officials are said to now have serious questions about the unnamed
> > > defector's veracity.
> > > "No significant evidence of [Capt. Speicher´s] status has been
> > > discovered," says the two-page classified report dated June 23. It
says
> > > investigators have obtained an "alleged Speicher flight suit," which
is
> > > being examined for DNA evidence.
> > > The report presents a much more pessimistic outlook for the search
> than
> > > has been generally presented in public by some U.S. congressmen who
have
> > > received official briefings.
> > > Sen. Bill Nelson, Florida Democrat, said he saw classified
> information
> > > on a trip to Iraq that made him think the mystery would be solved.
Sen.
> Pat
> > > Roberts, Kansas Republican, made similar upbeat comments.
> > > A day after the date of the Pentagon report, titled "Personnel
> Recovery
> > > Efforts in Support of Capt. Speicher," Defense Secretary Donald H.
> Rumsfeld
> > > was asked about the Speicher search at a Pentagon press conference.
> > > "I read two reports today, and what they told me is that the
senior
> > > people involved in, I guess the Iraqi Survey Group, are focused on
this
> > > issue, attentive to it. ... There is nothing that has been turned up
> thus
> > > far that I could elaborate on that would be appropriate."
> > > The report is stamped "secret" and written as an update on the
> extensive
> > > search for the pilot, whose F-18 was shot down during Desert Storm.
> > > The report reveals that the main source for a report last year
that
> > > Capt. Speicher survived the crash is a defector from Saddam Hussein's
> > > Special Security Organization (SSO), which maintained the dictator's
> rule in
> > > Baghdad.
> > > The defector, whom U.S. officials call "defector No. 2314,"
provided
> > > names of witnesses who he says support his story. But when contacted
by
> the
> > > U.S. search team, the Iraqis deny the defector's account.
> > > "None of the information provided by 2314 has proven accurate,"
the
> > > Pentagon report states.
> > > The hunt for Capt. Speicher is one of the Bush administration's
> chief
> > > postwar inquiries, topped only by the search for Saddam's weapons of
> mass
> > > destruction.
> > > The Iraq Survey Group, a large team put together to collect and
> analyze
> > > intelligence in Iraq, contains a cell devoted to solving the Speicher
> > > mystery and other missing-in-action cases.
> > > The cell looking for Capt. Speicher has 15 personnel at the
Defense
> > > Intelligence Agency in Washington. They are aided by the CIA, the
> National
> > > Imagery and Mapping Agency, and six other cell personnel working in
> Iraq.
> > > The pilot was shot down on Desert Storm's first day, Jan. 17,
1991.
> He
> > > appeared to have ejected, raising speculation he landed in the desert
> and
> > > was taken prisoner, but originally was listed as killed in action.
> > > But the defector's story, in part, prompted the Navy to change his
> > > status to missing-captured and to promote him from commander to the
rank
> of
> > > captain.
> > > This information created a storm of prewar news coverage that
Saddam
> > > might still be holding an American he was supposed to release, with
all
> > > other prisoners of war, after the March 1991 cease-fire.
> > > But the secret Pentagon report lists a number of leads that turned
> out
> > > to be bogus:
> > > .Defector No. 2314 provided the names of several doctors who he
said
> had
> > > knowledge of Capt. Speicher's whereabouts. "All denied having any
> knowledge;
> > > two have passed a polygraph exam," the Pentagon report says.
> > > .The defector said his supervisor at SSO also knew of Capt.
> Speicher's
> > > imprisonment. But the supervisor denied this, passed a polygraph and
> called
> > > No. 2314 "a born liar."
> > > .The source said a psychiatrist at the Rashid prison worked there
> during
> > > Capt. Speicher's purported captivity. But the psychiatrist "denied any
> > > knowledge."
> > > .U.S. Central Command has recovered thousands of POW-related files
> in
> > > Iraq. "To date, analysts have found only one reference to Speicher.
The
> > > reference indicates he ejected and lists his status as 'unknown.' "
> > > The report says a search team tried to reach the crash site in
> mid-June,
> > > after the successful U.S.-led war to overthrow Saddam but was foiled
by
> > > enemy fire.
> > > It has previously been reported that investigators found the
> initials
> > > "MSS" on a cell wall in the Hakimiyah prison. Criminal investigators
> > > speculated that MSS might stand for Michael Scott Speicher, but made
no
> > > determination.
> > > Concludes the report, "U.S. CentCom has searched every known
> location
> > > associated with Speicher. Other than at Hakimiyah prison, where U.S.
> forces
> > > found the initials 'MSS' carved in a cell wall, no significant
evidence
> of
> > > his status has been discovered."
> > > As next steps, the Army's Criminal Investigative Command is
> examining
> > > items taken from Hakimiyah prison. The items include sponges,
clothing,
> > > shoes and manacles.
> > > "Process consists of cataloging, chemical and DNA analysis and
will
> take
> > > weeks to months to complete," the secret report says.
> > > The Iraq Survey Group cell was also to interview an ethnic Iraqi
> U.S.
> > > citizen who had been held at another Baghdad prison, Abu Ghurab. "This
> > > individual reported to U.S. Marines that he heard Iraqi guards
> discussing
> > > the 'U.S. pilot.' "
> > > The paper says the cell administered a polygraph exam to the
> defector,
> > > but it does not give the results. It says the military has asked the
CIA
> "to
> > > conduct an independent polygraph of 2314."
> > > A CIA spokesman yesterday said the agency does not comment on
> polygraph
> > > issues.
> > >
> > > END QUOTE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ----
> > > JAS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > begin 666 clear.gif
> > > M1TE&.#EA"@`*`( ``/___P```"'Y! $`````+ `````*``H```((A(^IR^T/
> > > $8RL`.P``
> > > `
> > > end
> > >
> > > begin 666 twt-grey2.gif
> > > M1TE&.#EA"@`*`( ``)VKQ ```"'Y! ``````+ `````*``H```((A(^IR^T/
> > > $8RL`.P``
> > > `
> > > end
>
>

Here's another "speculation".

Maybe it was leaked by a "CYA" DOD bureaucrat. Someone of the same
"ilk" as your gutless hero Clinton...who just 10 days before leaving
office (Jan 11, 2001) told the press that Speicher's status had been
changed to Missing in Action because "We have some information that
leads us to believe that he might be alive...and we hope and pray that
he is. But we have already begun working to try to determine whether,
in fact, he's alive, if he is, where he is and how we can get him
out". Two hours later, true to form, Slick Willie, tempered his
statement, telling the media, " Well, I don't want to say more than we
have. All I want to say is we have evidence which convinced me that we
can't ensure that he perished. I don't want to hold out false hope,
but I thought it was wrong to continue to classify him as killed in
action when he might not have been".

What a man! In office 8 years... wouldn't let Adm. Arthur launch a
planned covert mission into Iraq in April 1994 to check out Speicher's
(then) undistrubed crash site...despite intelligence assessments that
a chance of success for a secret mission was considered "high" in the
sparsely populated area. Instead, he asks Saddam's permission thru the
International Red Cross to visit the crash site and 2 years later we
are allowed to send a team in that (Suprise, Suprise, Suprise) finds a
scavanged crash site...complete with a "planted" flight suit.

Damn Clinton to hell...he had a chance to find out what happened to
Speicher but was too chicken-shit to listen to the military leaders
who had a low-risk plan in place to learn the fate of one of their
own. And then he has the unmitigated gall to say... just 10 days
before he leaves office... that there is evidence Speicher may not be
dead, change Speicher's status to MIA and dump him in George Bush's
lap.

Talk about CYA! I can just hear Hillary's man now should Speicher be
found alive or (God Forbid) it be proven that he was a POW in the
mid-90's and later died in captivity.

"Well, I never ruled out the possibility he might have been
alive"(ummm...now where have I heard that CYA statement before?)

Donna Long



Talk about CYA!

"Joe S." wrote in message news:...
> Who leaked the report to the "Times?"
>
> I don't know but I'd bet on one of 3-4 people but damned if I'll tell
> anyone who my candidates are.
>
> What was their motivation? They are professionals who are tired of the
> bullshit surrounding this case.
>
> It's interesting to note that an Army major did the most detailed study of
> the Speicher case while he was assigned to DPMO. His conclusions were at
> variance with the prevailing political climate -- which was that Iraq was
> evil and we need all the evidence we can to justify attacking them.
>
> His report went up through channels -- then the Deputy Director of DPMO
> recalled all copies, destroyed them, and kept one copy in his files. He
> missed one copy that remained at the USD-P office and there are rumors that
> he missed a couple of electronic copies. The DPMO Deputy -- who sees a
> potential ASD in the mirror every day when he shaves -- caused to be issued
> another report that was essentially what the neo-cons in the Pentagon wanted
> to hear. It is this heavily-modified, misleading piece of manufactured
> intell that led Senator Roberts down the garden path and that led the Navy
> to reclassify Speicher.
>
> The major who prepared the report has since moved on.
>
> I have attempted to obtain copies of this report through FOIA but have been
> refused. I am in the midst of appealing the refusal.
>
> I suspect the leak to the Times was from one of three or four people who are
> fed up with the politicizing of intell.
>
> --
>
> ----
> Joe S.
>
> "Dai Uy" wrote in message
> news:63323b03.0307170830.7e8353ad@posting.google.c om...
> > longd88@earthlink.net (Donna Long) wrote in message
> news:...
> > > JAS, notice that the report did not give the results of the polygraph
> > > given to the defector( near end of article). I only have about $200 in
> > > my "savings account" but I will bet it all that he passed a polygraph
> > > test(probably more than once). Also notice that the report did not ask
> > > the CIA to do an independent polygraph of the only three(among the
> > > several names he gave us) who passed "their" polygraph"...just the
> > > defector.
> > >
> > > As we all know, polographs are only as good as those who are giving
> > > them and it appears to me that the report got the results it wanted
> > > from the 3 Iraqis who passed "their" test ...but not the results they
> > > wanted from the defector.
> > >
> > > Donna Long
> > >
> >
> > You'll notice also that the report clearly states:
> >
> > "No significant evidence of [Capt. Speicher´s] status has been
> > discovered," says the two-page classified report dated June 23.
> >
> > That would seem to pretty much cover it.
> >
> > I'll have to say, the report raises a few questions in my mind
> > too. How did the Washington Times get their hands on a SECRET
> > document? Someone is responsible for this security breach. Why do
> > you suppose?
> >
> > And then there's this: "The report says a search team tried to
> > reach the crash site in mid-June, after the successful U.S.-led war to
> > overthrow Saddam but was foiled by enemy fire. " The US Military in
> > Iraq can't get to the crash site? That's hard to believe.