Tiger Force Redux

[exlrrp]

The tiger force atrocity is back in the news again as the Pulitzer prize winning investigative reporters start hawking their book on the subject

"There was no reason for what they did. No reason at all."
A quote from a man who turned in some of the tiger force people for the atrocities they committed.
Just one example:
"Dennis Stout was a soldier caught between the ethics of his job and surviving in an unforgiving Army. As a military journalist, he watched platoon soldiers force 35 women and children into a pasture in the heart of Vietnam?s Central Highlands. As the people huddled - some crying-the soldiers moved the villagers into small groups and led them to the edge of the field. Then came the gun shots, with bodies falling. "They just killed them - mothers, with little kids and old people," he recalled."
The Army investigated the case for 4 1/2 years, substantiating 20 war crimes involving 18 soldiers. But no one was charged.
And while the record of the tiger force is enough to make me cringe, at least there was someone with integrity enough to turn in some pretty bad people. Some of the people I served with. It sure didn't come from the command.
Tiger Force was the name of our battalion (1st/327) Recon team.
They wore tiger fatigues and were supposed to be recon.
Ive mentioned before my "Summer of Love" in the Song ve valley, burning down villages, running people out of their homes and burning them down. The avowed purpose was to clear the place first and turn it into a free fire zone. We patrolled around there,. setting up ambushes at night
I consider this to be the most disgraceful thing I ever did in my life and I was ordered to do it by my superiors. I didn't sign up to run peaceful people out of their houses and burn them down but there I was doing it. This forever killed the image of the USArmy as good guys for me in that war. Even what I saw there dsigusted me. and I didn't see the half of it. It turns out that after (and during) the "clean up" the tiger force was goiing along behind us, wiping out civilians.
HUNDREDS OF CIVILIANS!!! This masssacre involved as many or more people than My Lai---which happened right down the road from where I'm talking about, just a short distance, less than a year later.
Ive always taken pride that My Lai wouldn't have happened among 101st troops--too well trained, too well disciplined, I always thought. But I was wrong. It DID happen among some of the troops I knew well.
And, just like My Lai, the US Army, instead of facing their responsibilities, buried the story, with the help of the Nixon administration, on the grounds that the US public wasn't ready for another My Lai. There was a complete breakdown of decency, honesty,morality and leadership from one end of this sorry spectacle to the other.
There STILL has been no one charged for the murder of hundreds of innocent people--and there probably won't be.
I hate to look at this subject myself and for the same reason: I'm part of it. But it has to be done to set the record straight.
The 101st massacred hundreds of civilians in the Song Ve Valley in the Summer of Love, ran them out of their houses and burned them down.. And I was part of it.
The sorriest thing I ever did in my life, I will regret taking part in that for the rest of my days.

[DMZ-LT]

My Lai and these folks are a coat of shame that. all of us who served have been forced to wear all these years . It still pisses me off. Calley shoud be shot and these people brought to trail. It ain't to late , They are still convicting folks from bombings in the Civil Rights Era. In my platoon there was never a complete breakdown of decency , honesty , morality or leadership. I would never follow an order to kill civilians nor would I let anyone in my platoon to do such a thing

[Boats]

It takes one hell of man to admit to such things - it doesn't make it right - but it does show - that after time - an event like this doesn't go away - and the only relief is to tell the story and get it off his heart. I can't imagine carrying something around like that - it would have caused me to go off the deep end. So regrettable and yet so very tragic. Did we learn anything? Only time will tell.

The guilt and shame we carry for the actions of a few. exlrrp by now I hope you have forgiven yourself for this, and I know God has. You served your country honorably in a war that just to much for us to understand. We did our time and fought for each other to keep each other alive. Let the people who ordered such deaths be held accountable, but you know as well as I do that shi$ rolls down hill.

[39mto39g]

Im not at all saying its right or wrong for that matter,, BBBUUUT.
In WW2 the US Army fire bombed Tokyo. Killed over 100,000 civilians and didn't give them a chance to leave before burning down there house. The only difference is distance. I think the guys that killed face to face , Like Mi Lai , have a much harder time dealing with what they did as apossed to the bomidear who just puched the button but the result was the same.
Why, I wonder, do people take such a negative attitude for exicution during a war and not say a word when those same people get Bombed or artilaryed. There just as dead.

But, what the hay.

Ron

[Packo]

James,

I know how you feel about this and this has also caused Phumper some consternation since it reared it's ugly head. I know that you never pulled the trigger on these people and for that you should be proud. I know you feel bad that it was you that forced them out of their homes but the responsibility for their deaths lies with our government who sent us there in the 60's and the men that ordered it and carried it out. It is what war is.....a dirty horrible job...probably the worst in the world and Ron has hit the nail on the head, just ask the innocent people in Dresden, London, the Phillipino's, Jews, South Koreans,.......There is also enough blame to go around to the North Vietnamese who decided to come down and "unite" their fellow countrymen in the South...many who fled them to begin with. It is why I hate War. I am proud to say that I never saw anything like this in the Cav. Let me know if you need anyhting.

Tom

[frisco-kid]

Originally posted by exlrrp

Ive mentioned before my "Summer of Love" in the Song ve valley, burning down villages, running people out of their homes and burning them down. The avowed purpose was to clear the place first and turn it into a free fire zone. We patrolled around there,. setting up ambushes at night
I consider this to be the most disgraceful thing I ever did in my life and I was ordered to do it by my superiors. I didn't sign up to run peaceful people out of their houses and burn them down but there I was doing it. This forever killed the image of the USArmy as good guys for me in that war. Even what I saw there dsigusted me. and I didn't see the half of it. It turns out that after (and during) the "clean up" the tiger force was goiing along behind us, wiping out civilians.

Operation Malheur II. That's what this phase of the the operation was named. Malheur I was puting the whole brigade into the mountains west of Duc Pho to do Search and Destroy on the VC basecamps that had been in these mountains for years. It ran from the end of APR67 to the first part of JUN67. The 2/502 [me] and the 1/327 CA'd in on 11MAY67. 2/327 came in the next day. When they brought us down out of the mountains it was like James said; we were to clear out the Song Ve and Crow's Foot Valleys to be Free Fire Zones. Malheur II. I DEROS'd the end of JUN67, just barely involved in any of it. But like James, it totally rubbed me wrong. Just wasn't what I signed up to be a paratrooper for. Most of the other guys in my company felt the same way.

I didn't believe this stuff about Tiger Force when it first became public a couple of years ago. It just didn't fit or represent the 101st that I was proud to have served in. But now it seems to be irrefutable, giving the whole 1st Bde. [the only one in-country at the time] a black eye. A sad deal. These 18 people need to be rounded up and held accountable. EVERY ONE OF THEM. Not like with Calley's platoon members getting amnesty for their testimony against him. If you pulled a trigger on these people you should swing for it, period.

I'm looking forward to reading the book when you're done with it, Bro. It was good seeing you last Saturday.

[exlrrp]

Guess what may piss me off the most is how stupid I feel about this--like tricked into doing something awful.
Like Tom, I would have gone to my grave defnding the 101st--untill I read the accounts. It is true. This did happen. Babies beheaded. Women raped in front of their famiies, then murdered. 22 paratroopers raping one woman. Mass murders. There's over 30 seperate war crimes incuding murder and rape charged among 18 people. Everything Kerry said happened, did happen, right in the Song Ve valley. Right under my nose--paste it in yr fcking hat!! I am very, very pissed off about this whole sorry episode
Its the same way I felt about My Lai--I didn't do that either but I felt really shitty about the whole affair, but it wasn't me. But in the Song Ve, I burned down one of the houses (then stopped) That makes me part of it.
And once again, its not just about the crime, its about the cover up. Its obvious that once again, the US Army, all the way up to the top conspired once again to bury this story: MASS FUCKING MURDERS!!
Because they didn't want to be "embarassed."
I was proud to have been in the 1st/327, they were a fighting outfit. Now I only go by ex lrrp
Stay good
James

[1CAVCCO15MED]

I really don't know what to say, James. I am just so sorry.

[39mto39g]

There are NO good guys in war. only after its over and the remembering starts do people start getting upset at what people did in war.
I don't know if its possible to fight a "Nice" war. That is if you want to win anyway.
If you just want to kill people for 10-15 years then maybe, be nice, play fair, don't hurt anyone , people shoot at you first before you fire, etc.
But if your intent is to win, then how the Japs fight a war , in my opinion is best,
Invade, Kill everyone, everything, when apossed by a larger force, never give up, fight to last man, Kill all that surrender.
That is how you win a war.
After the war is over and the healing starts, the ones that did the dirty deeds need help, and a big "Thank You"

Ron