Afghani Opium

[BLUEHAWK]

:cd:

I've asked some of these questions in other ways on PF:

Today, Saturday, October 4th, Associated Press report... summary

Looks like (from the map they published in the article by: Mark Fritz) Afghanistan has roughly 188 provinces (or counties or whatever they call 'em)... of that number they are showing 109 that are experiencing in INcrease in opium poppy production in 2003 over 2002.

Now, not that I am surprised, nor (actually) that I even really worry about it all that much (each to his own poison, and his own consequences, I always say)... I mean they gotta have SOME kind of a national economy, right?

But here on PF the minute you mention anything resembling "international drug trade" ya better watch out... first thing you'll be told is, "Drugs finance terrorism". Like I've said before, a number of times, I don't know if that is true or not, and it would not surprise me for drugs to finance a WHOLE lot of stuff good and bad. I've also said a number of times that I do not see that any "War on Drugs" has been successful, nor do I think it ever will be or could be.

But here we have a situation where we KNOW that the remnants of the Taliban are good farmers and can bring their agriculture to market, and we know they know we know they are doing so. What they do with the money is like any other national or family budget... some food, replace a Koran or two, upgrade some software, a little trip to the lumber yard once in awhile, pay the cell phone bill, a dress here and there, maybe some fuel for the family donkey, and some weapons. And, how's this for parsing Holy words... a lady muslim the other day said that while the Koran does prohibit intoxication, it says nothing about SELLING or producing drugs, which is why they can justify doing so (lemme see, is this what the meaning of the word "Is" is?) Pardon my sarcasm...

Wouldn't it just be more efficient (and maybe even life-saving of our troopers) to call a truce in the Drug War, take some of the financial incentive out of it by putting a HEAVY tax (ADD to the national treasury! What a concept!) on the incoming garbage... and just GET OVER our Puritanical insistence that anything which alters human consciousness is the Devil's Work?

[Sgt_Tropo]

And just who is going to fund the tremendious added cost to the national welfare, medicaid / medicare, police and other funds that history has proven take a huge hit because of these drugs and their effects ? Get real ! Instead of legalizing drugs, we ought to be stiffening the consequences and better enforcing them.
Personally, I believe anyone convicted of selling, distributing or manufacturing these types of drugs should be immediately executed.

[BLUEHAWK]

Sarge (if you will permit the honorable abbreviation) -

I dunno for sure either, and what you say is so true too.

All I beg leave for us to consider is this: the war on drugs HAS failed, it was a "pig in a poke", well meant.

I posit this, for your input: At what point would all costs of escalating penalties become meaningless in achieving the generally accepted objectives?

I do not suggest legalization. I do not suggest decriminalization. I suggest capitalization.

Let us no longer turn the blind eye.

[Seascamp]

As a practical matter we are in Afghanistan to smash the Talibs or anyone the looks like a Talib. I would be very much against the US or any other county taking away jurisdiction or imposing laws that are not for the specific purpose crushing the Talibs or Al Qaeda. So if a poppy plantation is known to provide funding for the terrorist cause, then burn it down and wreck the soil. If not, let the emerging Afghani Government deal with it and all the side issues. This may seem to be a bit of hypocrisy, but I believe our role is to deal with the drug bandits and poppy product when it?s on the move and in the market. Then any SOB peddling that stuff gets to be taken down immediately if not sooner, yesterday was a day late as far as I?m concerned. During Operation Market Time, RVN, we grabbed up more than a few basketball-sized poppy tar balls coming down river from the ?Golden Triangle? and were told to stop doing that. My assumption was that higher powers were tracking that stuff and going after the big fish. But then I was young and gullible at the time and I?m not sure I?d make the same assumption these days, who knows.

Scamp

[BLUEHAWK]

Scamp & Tropo -

It's the two words, "duplicitous" and "Mafia", which concern me most... in this instance.

Golden Triangle, 109 provinces, etc.

I think we been had.

[Seascamp]

?Had? is the word but I guess I?d rather be had in broad daylight that be fooled into thinking nothing but good things are happening in Afghanistan. If we were to get after the poppy plantations, it is a mathematical certainty that we?d really piss off a bunch of the warlords and get yet another civil war a roaring and boiling. US troops would then be the premier targets and the number one objects of rage. No doubt organized crime is the principal beneficiary of the Afghanistan poppy tar exports, but then that?s why we have prisons and why so many inmates are in there on drug related offences. It?s a vicious circle that seems to be like a snake biting it?s own tail. But at least we can see the snake so not all is lost. It?s my understanding that the lions share of the Afghanistan poppy tar export ends up in France for refining and further export. The French Government doesn?t seem to be getting their bowels in an uproar over the problem so I?d say that is a larger issue than what some warlord is grows near the edge of the earth.

Scamp

[BLUEHAWK]

Glad you put it that way Scamp, I pretty much came to a similar conclusion... "at least we can see the snake".

Out west where I spend a lot of time on ranches or in mountains, we say that you practically have to step on a rattler to get him to bite ya.

Same thing, eh?

[Seascamp]

Out here in Nevada we got some mean-ass rattlers that will come after the unsuspecting if ya don?t watch out. So when I go fly-fishing I take an old .22 revolver with snake loads and that seems to level the playing field very nicely. Maybe I could loan out my snake shooter to the DEA during the off-season. That would work I'd say.

Scamp

[BLUEHAWK]

Dang Scamp!
You Nevadans DO have some mean snakes! (Wonder if their relatives are Taliban?)

Maybe you need to point out to me a viper shooter too...

[Sgt_Tropo]

I have to assume you're talking about them nasty ol' sidewinders. We got a bunch of them in Arizona too. When I lived there, I had to take a pistol and snake shot to the golf courses, especially during the mating season. That's when those sidewinders really get mean and nasty.
Heh, heh...It amazing how the sound of a .357 going off right behind you can mess up a drive or a putt !!

PS - It is absolutely amazing how fast those things can move with their crazy side-over-side motion. Also, you use only a little .22 ? Man oh man, in Arizona all that would do is make 'em madder ! I carried a .357 with snake loads and even then it would often take more than one shot (hit) to kill an adult sidewinder, unless you were really close (and I don't like snakes.)