Your Papers, Please ! Supreme Court to decide whether we must have an ID

[MORTARDUDE]

http://www.rense.com/general49/pprs.htm

Your Papers, Please
The Washington Times
2-27-4


Next week the U.S. Supreme Court will hear a case to decide whether or not all Americans must have identification on them at all times. The case has been brought by a cowboy in Nevada who was asked to show ID while he was leaning against his pickup truck on the side of the road near his ranch. The police officer did not offer any specific reason why he demanded proof of identity. Having committed no crime, Dudley Hiibel, the cowboy, refused -- and was arrested. He was later convicted for "Delaying a Peace Officer." In America, still a free country, citizens should not be required to provide identification papers at any whim of the authorities.

In the case at hand, Mr. Hiibel gave the arresting officer a chance to justify his request. But when asked why he demanded identification, the sheriff's deputy said only, "Because I'm investigating." When asked what he was investigating, the policeman responded with a wisecrack: "I'm investigating an investigation." The argument before the U.S. Supreme Court is whether requiring identification at any time is a violation of the Fourth Amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures or an invasion of privacy by the government.

In a 4-3 decision, the Nevada Supreme Court ruled against Mr. Hiibel, stating that the Nevada statute requiring identification during a police investigation "strikes a balance between constitutional protections of privacy and the need to protect police officers and the public." The argument is that police cannot rule out whether or not a stranger is a suspect in a crime until he is identified. In the dissent, Justice Deborah Agosti argues that merely knowing an individual's identity does not enhance safety. Regarding the Fourth Amendment, she explains, "Anonymity is encompassed within the expectation of privacy, a civil right." The Fifth Amendment also guarantees the right to remain silent, which can be construed as the right to guard one's identity.

The cowboy-ID case is timely because of the momentum in the federal government to mandate various kinds of national identification cards. Even some conservatives, such as Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl, support the idea of so-called Social Security cards with biometric identifiers such as retina scans and electronic fingerprints. The Nevada high court's ruling notes that "the right to wander freely and anonymously, if we so choose, is a fundamental right of privacy in a democratic society." The openness of the prairie symbolizes this freedom. It would be a shame if cowboys were required to carry a driver's license to ride a horse while roaming the open range.




Copyright ? 2004 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.

www.washingtontimes.com

[travisab1]

MORTARDUDE;
The receptionist at the VA Hospital knows me personally yet for the first time ever yesterday when I went for my Doctors appointment he asked for mi ID. I ask him why? He said that it was a new policy and everyone who comes in that door has to show their ID. I asked him if he had to show his ID when he came to work? He said yes...

Here goes another one of those stupid no excuse rules down the Pike...

It's a wonder if the cowboy wasn't made to put a license tag, headlights and tail lights on the next horse he rides. I know he was leaning against his pick-up but what would have happened if he'd been on horseback. Would they have towed the horse in as well?

Travis

[kmac7847]

I may regrett saying this but here goes...I think the cop was using his authority in a manner not deemed to serve and protect. I know In Greene County Tennessee Sheriff Steve Burns and his commado cops (Greene County sheriffs dept.) throw their authority around like a sack of bricks. The police do not have the right to stop anyone they choose because they want to. They use the 10-81 or suspicious vehical way too much and harass too many people.
Personally I dont have a problem with the nation being required to possess a national ID card, it's who and when we may be required to show it. I personally have learned just because one of the cops wants to do something like search your car or person they have to have a reason. I will no longer afford them an opprotunity to search me or my property without an ordered search warrent from a judge. I can personally Attest to a situation where I own an ar-15, was seen with it out in rural TN,a neighbor cop, or Undercover Narc Mr. Doug Johnson sinking creek road,0 Chuckey, tn didnt like it complained and before I knew it, and it went as far as the feds coming into my home and businesses to search for altered or improvised weapons. What a crock of shit. Nothing was found and my weapons cache was left intact. I personally think this went a little too far.

[williams919]

Working as a cop or down here on the Southern Border, I feel an ID is a simple solution to a lot of problems. First off we have only heard part of this story about the Cowboy. If in fact the cop was just being an a$$ and hassleing the Cowboy. I agree this should get shoved up the Sheriff's arse. BUT if it was a case of a crime in the area and the cop was checking him for any good reason, well then the Cowboy is wrong.
Daily I ask people for a picture ID, by the way where I work you need some ID in order to return to the US from Mexico. But when you ask "Are you a US citizen?' the dumd a$$e$$ give you answers like "Left it at home", "From Minnesota, ain't that in the US?" or "What do I look like?", the last one after you have heard about 2000 a$$hole$ smart remarks receives a reply, "Sir, I am not here to discuss your looks". Kinda sound like I get tired of our society thinking all civil servants should kiss their a$$ just because they pay my wages, or at least that is what they tell me. I only paid $18000 plus in taxes last year, both from regular pay and my Navy retirement. So I figure I paid myself just a little.
The government wants to identify people, and tes it is a sticky situation, but instead of solving problems, all I hear is bitching about something that needs to be done. After all I am sure that cop and myself have never ever been lied to about someones name.
Just my opinion, could be wrong, God knows I have before a couple of times.
theemperor

[MORTARDUDE]

If I had any faith at all left in the Federal Government ( I don't )..I would be all for a National ID card. If I thought it 1) would allow for deportation of illegal aliens quicker 2) deportation of undesirables 3)
expedite the arrest of career criminals 4) make the arrest of known terrorists more certain 5) insure the safety of all Americans..

I would be 100% for it...the sad fact is that none of that would happen, but it would create a huge database which would allow for even less privacy than we have now......Just IMHO

larry

[BLUEHAWK]

What America needs is a national driver license and vehicle license plate... simple solution to a complex problem (and a damn annoying expensive one for ordinary folks TOO!)

Everybody keeps swearing that now we've gone with the Union, so by God let us GO with THE union, right this minute!

[Keith_Hixson]

Just my thought.

Of all places, rural Nevada.

Something stinks.

Keith

[sn-e3]

Maybe maybe not all the sudden our Boeing gistapo are packing shotguns and stopping every vehical and doing a quick look see their might be more going on around us then we know about. yet I do feel safer at work knowing the checks on incoming rigs is more thoughal then before.

[BLUEHAWK]

Larry - I do not see how the much feared "data base" COULD get very much larger man! Jaysus... the SS card and Driver License number we ALREADY have damn near control every freakin' thing simple and free that anybody does or wants to do in this America... sorta like the national ID came in the back door while we were napping, and now that it is upon us we might just as well have SOME way of knowing who exacraly IS an American, and then every cop in every township will see the card and respect it, eh? Hell, maybe a person could even go to an American bank or an airport check-in line and NOT be made to feel like a presumed enemy of the state!!!

Like I said, either we HAVE a Federal system or we don't, but let us cease playing around with people's loyalties and pretending we are something we have not yet become.

[MORTARDUDE]

Mike :

I speak from 32 years and 2 months in "the belly of the beast", so to speak. To be specific, all that time was spent dealing with federal government mainframe computer operations...I ain't no prophet, but I will bet you here is what will happen ( sooner rather than later )

1) the National ID Card Act will be passed, and just like your Social Security card ( which was not meant to be a national ID number ),
it will be required to do anything pertaining to the federal government...( that takes in a lot of territory )

2) all the state, county, and local governments will "piggy-back" on it, as the federal government will give them "incentives" to do it..

3) it will be rife with erroneous data...

4) said erroneous data will cause decent law-abiding citizens ( 95% of the population ) to be hassled in a variety of ways...most will be very unpleasant...

5) it will be easy to counterfeit and to assume someone else's identity ( much easier than now..one-stop-shopping )

6) if you are one of the unlucky individuals whose identity has been assumed, you will not be able to do ANYTHING...

7) this will just be a "speed bump" for most illegal aliens and terrorists, as there will be many unscrupulous individuals on the inside that will sell information..

8) after the next major "terrorist incident" in the USA, everyone will be clamoring for this...

that is the "good" side of it..

What will it be like when all your medical history, work history, DNA, credit history, and God knows what else is loaded on it ??

As with the myth of gun registrations, only honest citizens will suffer...

All IMHO as usual..

Larry

P.S. : Do some Google searches on "DARPA"...they are already setup for this.