CBS Stands By Its Story

[exlrrp]

TELL US WHO YOU SERVED WITH GEORGIE!!!
I call on ALL candidates to undergo an investigation of their military record. John Kerry and I will always support this but Bush never will.
This aint over till its over. And it aint over yet.
The most telling thing of all is the White HOuse response to this--who would know if these were phony better than George W Bush?? If someone was publishing phony papers involving my service, I'd be out there next day denying it!! And who wold know better than me?. But the White HOuse adcepted them at first and have never denied it. They say they exonerate Bush--thats what you get for having a complete staff that never served in the military
These Killian memos fit very seamlessly into the known story--the known sequence of Bush's weaseling out of flight duty remains the same
Bush needs to come clean on his record--but he won't--wouldn't you think someone who was rerally proud of his record would be talking about it.

TJhousands and thousands of American veterans want to kn ow all about the special treatment Grounded George got We want to drag him out of his hole where he's hiding to explain this. He'll ony send out his spinmeisters
Here's a solid bet--odds of 2 to 5 Bush NEVER comes clean to the public to explain his record
This aint goiung to go away, only bigger, even if Bush gets elcted--doesn't it just seem like your worst nightmare, Georgie?

Gimp--wanted to post this picture to show just how much I get inspired by Texans sometime--can I sned em a Yard for you in the name of Gimpy?? Take care--next time come out here for the hurricane season
James

today from CBS
(CBS/AP) The controversy continues over the authenticity of memos obtained by CBS News that show President Bush's National Guard commander believed Mr. Bush at times shirked his duties and used his political influence.

The network is adamantly defending the authenticity of the memos, which were obtained by CBS News' "60 Minutes," saying experts who examined the memos concluded they were authentic documents produced by Mr. Bush's former commander, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian.

In a statement, CBS News said it stands by its story.

"This report was not based solely on recovered documents, but rather on a preponderance of evidence, including documents that were provided by unimpeachable sources, interviews with former Texas National Guard officials and individuals who worked closely back in the early 1970s with Colonel Jerry Killian and were well acquainted with his procedures, his character and his thinking," the statement read.

"In addition, the documents are backed up not only by independent handwriting and forensic document experts but by sources familiar with their content," the statement continued. "Contrary to some rumors, no internal investigation is underway at CBS News nor is one planned."

In a report on Friday night's "CBS News Evening News," Dan Rather reported that many of those raising questions about the documents have focused on something called superscript, a key that automatically types a raised "th."

Critics claim typewriters didn't have that ability in the 1970s. But some models did, Rather reported. In fact, other Bush military records already released by the White House itself show the same superscript ? including one from as far back as 1968.

Some analysts outside CBS say they believe the typeface on these memos is New Times Roman, which they claim was not available in the 1970s.

But the owner of the company that distributes this typing style told CBS News that it has been available since 1931.

Document and handwriting examiner Marcel Matley analyzed the documents for CBS News. He says he believes they are real. And he is concerned about exactly what is being examined by some of the people questioning the documents, because deterioration occurs each time a document is reproduced. And the documents being analyzed outside of CBS have been photocopied, faxed, scanned and downloaded, and are far removed from the documents CBS started with.

Matley did an interview with "60 Minutes" prior to Wednesday's broadcast. He looked at the documents and the signatures of Col. Killian, comparing known documents with the colonel's signature on the newly discovered ones.

"We look basically at what's called significant or insignificant features to determine whether it's the same person or not," Matley said. "I have no problem identifying them. I would say based on our available handwriting evidence, yes, this is the same person."

Matley finds the signatures to be some of the most compelling evidence.

Reached Friday by satellite, Matley said, "Since it is represented that some of them are definitely his, then we can conclude they are his signatures."

Matley said he's not surprised that questions about the documents have come up.

"I knew going in that this was dynamite one way or the other. And I knew that potentially it could do far more potential damage to me professionally than benefit me," he said. "But we seek the truth. That's what we do. You're supposed to put yourself out, to seek the truth and take what comes from it."

Robert Strong was an administrative officer for the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam years. He knew Jerry Killian, the man credited with writing the documents. And paper work, like these documents, was Strong's specialty. He is standing by his judgment that the documents are real.

"They are compatible with the way business was done at that time," Strong said. "They are compatible with the man I remember Jerry Killian being. I don't see anything in the documents that's discordant with what were the times, the situation or the people involved."

Killian died in 1984.

Strong says the highly charged political atmosphere of the National Guard at the time was perfectly represented in the new documents.

"It verged on outright corruption in terms of the favors that were done, the power that was traded. And it was unconscionable from a moral and ethical standpoint. It was unconscionable," Strong said.

The president's service record emerged as an issue during the 2000 race and again this winter. The Killian documents revived the issue of Mr. Bush's time in uniform after weeks in which Democratic challenger John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam combat veteran, has faced questions over his record as a Navy officer and an anti-war protester.

The questions about Mr. Bush's service center on how Mr. Bush got into the Guard and whether he fulfilled his duties during a period from mid-1972 to mid-1973.

What the Killian memos purport to show is that Mr. Bush defied a direct order to appear for a physical exam, that his performance as an officer was lacking in other ways and that Mr. Bush used family connections to try to quash any inquiry into his lapses.

In a separate development, the Boston Globe this week reported that Mr. Bush promised to sign up with a Boston-area unit when he left his Texas unit in 1973 to attend Harvard Business School. Mr. Bush never signed up with a Boston unit.

[exlrrp]

"It (the way things were done in the TANG) verged on outright corruption in terms of the favors that were done, the power that was traded. And it was unconscionable from a moral and ethical standpoint. It was unconscionable," Strong said."

He sure hit the nail right on the head

[SuperScout]

NARRATIVE/SOURCE PROBLEMS

1. The 72-year-old anchor conveniently did not mention the fact that James Moore, one of his key validative sources, is a
left-wing activist and author who has written two anti-Bush books, Bush's Brain, and Bush's War for Reelection. Rather referred to him as "author Jim Moore has written two books on the subject."

2. Not coincidentally, Rather also did not mention that one of its main validators, retired Maj. General Bobby Hodges, is accusing
60 Minutes staff of lying to him in order to get him to say the supposed Killian memos were authentic. ABC News has the story:
"Hodges, Killian's supervisor at the Guard, tells ABC News that he feels CBS misled him about the documents they uncovered.
According to Hodges, CBS told him the documents were 'handwritten' and after CBS read him excerpts he said, 'well if he wrote them that's what he felt.'

"Hodges also said he did not see the documents in the 70's and he cannot authenticate the documents or the contents. His personal belief is that the documents have been 'computer-generated' and are a 'fraud.'"

The Washington Post reported earlier today that CBS considered Hodges its "trump card": "A senior CBS official, who asked not to be named because CBS managers did not want to go beyond their official statement, named one of the network's sources as retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, the immediate superior of the documents' alleged author, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian. He said a CBS reporter read the documents to Hodges over the phone and Hodges replied that "these are the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time." "These documents represent what Killian not only was putting in memoranda, but was telling other people," the CBS News official said. "Journalistically, we've gone several extra miles."

The official said the network regarded Hodges's comments as "the trump card" on the question of authenticity, as he is a
Republican who acknowledged that he did not want to hurt Bush. Hodges, who declined to grant an on-camera interview to CBS, did not respond to messages left on his home answering machine in Texas.

Looks like jokers are no longer wild.

3. He deliberately ignored statements from Col. Killian's wife and son who said that he hated using typewriters, hardly ever kept
notes, and very much liked George W. Bush. In today's Washington Post, CBS conceded that it had not asked his wife to authenticate the letters it claims were written by her husband. Both Killian's widow and son say that the alleged memos are not characteristic of his style, both say he had no "personal file" from which CBS's source could have obtained them, and both do not believe all of they are authentic. Interviewed yesterday by radio show host Sean Hannity, Gary Killian said that he and his mother tried to get CBS to include their opinions in the story but CBS did not appear to want them.

4. Rather did not mention that Ben Barnes, the Democratic lobbyist who is now saying he helped young Bush into the Texas Air National Guard (TANG), has changed his story according to his Republican daughter, Amy. She says that Barnes is making his Bush claims in preparation for his upcoming autobiography and to build up his political profile in the hopes of getting hired by a Kerry
administration, all of which he allegedly told her. Readers are also reminded of the fact that Ben Barnes testified UNDER OATH in a previous case that he did not help get GWB into the Guard. This seems to be a regular problem with some Democrats, lying under oath. So was Ben Barnes lying then, or is he lying now?

5. Also left out by Rather was the fact that one of the CBS documents dated in 1973 refers to pressure that then-Col. Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, had supposedly been applying on Killian to make things easier for Bush. Unfortunately for CBS's case, however, Staudt had retired in 1972.

6. CBS's own paid signature expert (the network featured no
typographers or typewriter experts tonight or in Wednesday's report), Marcel Matley, directly undermined CBS's case several years earlier in an essay for the American Law Institute: "Do not passively accept a copy as the sole basis of a case. Every copy,
intentionally or unintentionally, is in some way false to the original. In fact, modern copiers and computer printers are so good that they permit easy fabrication of quality forgeries."
In his defense tonight, Rather admitted that "the documents CBS started with were also photocopies." Any forensic document examiner will tell you that the original must be used in every case to determine true authenticity, testing such things as paper chemical content, ink/printer material chemistry etc.

7. The original 60 Minutes report as well as Friday's rebuttal did not feature a single person person who was quoted as coming to
Bush's defense who was not on his staff, despite the fact that it is not hard at all to find people who say they served with Bush
during the period in which he is accused of being AWOL. The only person that CBS did put on camera hardly provided much support for the documents' authenticity. Rather quoted him as follows: "Well, they are compatible with the way business was done at that time. They are compatible with the man that I remember, Jerry Killian, being. I don't see anything in the documents that are discordant with what were the times, what were the situation and what were the people that were involved."
Reached by the AP today, Strong was even more lukewarm toward the documents' authenticity. His former colleague, Retired Col. Maurice Udell called them fakes: "That's not true. I was there. I knew Jerry Killian. I went to Vietnam with Jerry Killian in 1968."

[Arrow]

Killian's son in a telephone interviewwith Fox News stated that he gave several names of people that served with the President in the guard to the researcher that called him from CBS.The names were names of men that flew with the President, rated him, and shared an apartment with him None were contacted by CBS. He also statedhe remembers his Father'swords at a dinner he had with himin regard toPresident Bush while he served under his Father in the Guard.They were filled with praise. Thatconversation was also ignored by CBS. The son was really quite polite in making an assesment of CBS when asked if he thought that this was a set up to smear the President. He wanted to be generous and just note that someone didn't do their homework.

Son: "Daddy, what's that big, ugly building over there with all those piles of dirt and cobwebs around it?"

Daddy: "Well, son once upon a time, we got some of our information from people in there who wore blinders. There are alot of buildings around the country that look just like that. This one once belonged to a company called CBS."

[SuperScout]

Can I smell another "apology" coming from James?.......................................Nah.. .............

[Arrow]

Post Script...

Jerry Killian's son stated that his Father was not the kind of man to write a "memo" if he were being pressured. He would go confront the situation head on.

Go Cable, Get a dish, Ditch CBS News....

http://www.nationalreview.com/script...0409100809.asp

[colmurph]

James.....I used to think that you were a pretty decent guy. Guess I was a lousy judge of character. My Bad............

[Gimpy]

SIGN ME UP!

[Seascamp]

"Any forensic document examiner will tell you that the original must be used in every case to determine true authenticity, testing such things as paper chemical content, ink/printer material chemistry etc."

That be the one, sure enough. Paper making is a hard science and fortunately or unfortunately for whatever ox is being gored, paper making processes have changed, big time, in the last three decades and it's a really easy thing to tell which is which, not a problem at all and inks are even easier. ?. Tiz called a gas chromatograph and is a usual tool in process varification/quality assurance labs and forinsic testing labs.

CBS seems to be hedging on a source document and de emphasizing its importance, but without a source document I?m not sure how the allegations can be made to stick unless there is a massive rug dance and slight of hand.

Without an authenticated source document, maybe Danny Lad should consider putting on a bowtie and call this whole episode ?Peewee Herman?s great adventures at the XXX movie house?.

Scamp

[zuni_rocket]

I found this article most interesting and I wish to share it with you'll & it can be found with back up material to support the facts unlike the lies from the left.I give the url for it for you as it does have many active links to xheck references to verify sorces.....jb

Man , tell me how you can ever be ever be a democrat and have been in the service or at lest the US Service?? Especially a Nam vet or older??
Good Men Died, while Kerry Lied. Jim Bishop.

Bush's Advantage on Military Service
By Ben Johnson
FrontPageMagazine.com | September 10, 2004
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Rea...e.asp?ID=15039

"Mr. President, you and I know that?if service or non-service in the [Vietnam] war is to become a test of qualification for high office?our nation would never recover from the divisions created by that war."? Sen. John Kerry on the Senate floor, 1992.

The narrowly partisan opponents of the current War on Terrorism, panicked by the pro-war president?s double-digit lead in the polls, have drudged up their archaic ace-in-the-hole: the president?s service record in the Air National Guard. This issue is growing so old, it should have whiskers. The latest round of 527 commercials target alleged gaps in George W. Bush?s service in the National Guard. This time, a group named "Texans for Truth" is airing ads questioning whether George W. Bush ever flew in the Alabama National Guard in 1972. They charge, among other things, that Bush missed a physical examination, proving he never fulfilled his duty. Having had this issue vetted during two races for governor of Texas, one Republican primary and two presidential elections, the public has shown itself content with Bush?s affirmative answer. The last time the Left trotted out this charge ? only six months ago ? a young lady Bush dated in 1972 even confirmed that he completed his training in Montgomery. The facts show George W. Bush served honorably in the National Guard from 1968-73, volunteering the most hours when the country was most likely to call on him and decreasing his flight time as the nation pulled out of Vietnam. Weighing their records on balance, George W. Bush?s service record appears far more commendable than John Kerry?s.

The Facts on Bush?s National Guard Duty

George W. Bush entered the Texas Air National Guard upon graduating from Yale in May of 1968. For the next two years, Bush would fly almost non-stop for 80 weeks, making his Reserve duty a full-time job. From May 1968-69, he earned 253 flight points, more than five times the required annual minimum for Reserve members. He earned nearly 100 points more than that the following year. From 1970-72, he earned more than twice his minimum each year.

In 1972, he famously asked to be transferred to the Alabama National Guard, so he could work on a political campaign. He earned only 56 points from May 1972-73. In the summer of 1973, he earned another 56 points in just two months and was granted an honorable discharge six months before completing his six-year commitment. It is this latter portion of service the Left has seized upon. Non-veterans Terry MacAuliffe and Michael Moore have (falsely) described Bush as "AWOL" during this time. Others wondered how Bush could be allowed to turn in fewer hours in 1972-3 than he did the four previous years. The president?s opportunistic critics overlook the context of his Guard service: the conditions of the Vietnam War.

Bush entered the Guard at the high water mark of Lyndon Johnson?s escalation policies. By 1969, more than half-a-million U.S. soldiers were stationed in Vietnam. After the inauguration of Richard Nixon, the Republican who campaigned on a platform of "peace with honor" began the first significant troop withdrawals: 75,000 by the end of 1969. Through his policy of "Vietnamization," Nixon recalled another 170,000 American troops by 1971. Despite these improvements, the American presence was significant.

It was during these years that George W. Bush logged the largest number of flight hours; precisely when he was needed the most, during the period of greatest likelihood he would be called into active duty for his country. According to his superiors, that service proved exemplary; Bush?s commanders peppered his five-plus year service record with commendations. In 1970, an evaluator raved Bush "clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot," calling the future president "a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership." How prophetic.

Over the next two years, the pace of President Nixon?s troop draw-downs would accelerate faster than he intended. This is also when the president (intentionally) decreased the number of draftees, soon phasing out conscription altogether. The last American ground troops were removed on August 23, 1972. Seven months later, Nixon pronounced, "The day we have all worked and prayed for has finally come," as he withdrew the last American troops from Vietnam in March 1973. And this was when George W. Bush put in only the minimum fly time necessary ? when he was least needed and least likely to be called into service.

By 1972, the services were overrun with grounded pilots. In yesterday?s edition of The Hill, Byron York quotes retired Colonel William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971. Campenni recalled:


In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots. The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ?72 or ?73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.

By the time Bush put in for an early discharge, after he met all the fly time required, the Air Force was scrambling to shed unneeded officers, and there was no American presence in Vietnam whatever. The services welcomed the departure of a reservist who had logged far more than his required hours and would merely sit idle for six months. They had no war to fight; even the "real" servicemen had been called out? to the chagrin of democratic South Vietnamese. At the insistence of Congressional Democrats, who had Nixon over a barrel thanks to Watergate, America was AWOL from this battle, and our allies would pay the price.

These facts have not killed the liberal media?s outcry over the story ? for the fourth or fifth time. Although Bush has turned over all his service records ? including some the military, according to regulations, should have destroyed decades ago ? while Kerry has stonewalled on his, the mainstream media pounced on the Bush story (just as they ignored the Swiftboat Vets? ads at the height of that controversy). And though every media outlet in the country hinted at a Bush connection to the Swiftboat Vets operation, only former Republican Representative Joe Scarborough had the decency to investigate the background of these new "independent" campaigners. On his show last night, Scarborough pointed out that "Texans for Truth" organizer Glenn Smith had been a consultant for MoveOn.org, promoted the anti-Bush book Bush?s Brain, and was an associate of both Paul Begala and Ann Richards.

Making Political Hay on Vietnam

In response to these false and despicable ads, a prominent senator known as a war hero stated:


I am saddened by the fact that Vietnam has yet again been inserted into the campaign, and that it has been inserted in what I feel to be the worst possible way?The race for the White House should be about leadership, and leadership requires that one help heal the wounds of Vietnam, not reopen them?We do not need to divide America over who served and how.

No, it was not John McCain. OK, that was Senator John Kerry discussing Bill Clinton?s draft evasion on the Senate floor in 1992. In the 2004 presidential campaign, Kerry has been injecting Vietnam into the discussion at every opportunity. During his ridiculous midnight campaign rally after President Bush?s speech at the Republican National Convention, Kerry again played the Vietnam card: "The Vice President called me unfit for office last night." (He didn?t.) "Well, I'll leave it up to the voters to decide whether five deferments makes someone more qualified to defend this nation than two tours of duty." The conventional wisdom agrees: Kerry?s Purple Hearts trump Bush?s flights over the Gulf of Mexico. However, a closer look reveals Kerry?s war service record not be an advantage over Bush?s complete record at all.

Kerry?s Service

Bill Clinton claims that during Vietnam, John Kerry responded to his nation?s call with an Isaiah-like, "Send me." As usual, Clinton trimmed the facts to fit his story. Kerry went into the service in 1966 after petitioning his draft board for a deferment so he could study in Paris. (Kerry did not say, "Send me"; he said, "Non, merci.") John O?Neill?s Unfit for Command summarizes Kerry?s actions after the board denied his request:


Kerry decided to enlist in the Navy ... The top choice was the Navy Reserves where the duty commitment was shorter and a larger proportion of the period could be served stateside on inactive duty.

John Kerry's service record indicates that on Feb. 18, 1966, he enlisted in the United States Naval Reserves, status "inactive," not in the U.S. Navy.

Interestingly, Kerry would later equate George W. Bush?s service in the Reserves with going to Canada.

In December 1968, the Navy sent Kerry into Vietnam for the most celebrated four-month tour of duty in combat history. The Swiftboat Vets have raised troubling questions about nearly every aspect of Kerry?s service, including the conditions under which he was awarded all his medals. It appears Kerry put himself forward for Purple Hearts every time he scratched himself, racked up three medals, then got himself sent out of harm?s way on an arcane technicality forgotten by most men (including his commanding officers). Kerry petitioned for his third Purple Heart ? probably the result of a self-inflicted grenade wound received on March 13, 1969, which he fibbed about ? and asked to be sent stateside within four days. (On the Dick Cavett Show in 1971, he would claim he agonized for weeks over whether to leave the Mekong Delta.) After being sent home in April of 1969, Kerry asked his commanding officer, Admiral Walter F. Schlech Jr., "to tell his boss that his conscience dictated that he protest the war, that he wanted out of the Navy immediately so that he could run for Congress." So Kerry, too, left the service to work on a political campaign ? his own. (He lost.) Unlike President Bush, though, he did not ask to be transferred to another state to complete his mandatory service; he left the service altogether ? at the height of American involvement, to demonize his fellow countrymen.

Also unlike Bush, Kerry had not yet completed the prerequisites of service: specifically, to serve six more months. George W. Bush identified with and supported the troops by flying the most hours when American GIs were putting in the heaviest sacrifices and left only after civilian command completely withdrew American troops from Vietnam. Kerry would ask to be sent home from the heat of battle when troop strength was at a near-record high, then demand to be released even from domestic service, for reasons of "conscience." Six months after his discharge in January of 1970, John Kerry would begin agitating with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Although still a member of the Naval Reserves (he did not leave that service until 1978), John Kerry personally met with the North Vietnamese communists in Paris in 1970, a violation of the Logan Act and certainly an act bordering on treason. It was at this time he supported the "People?s Peace Treaty," a communist propaganda agreement calling for a total, immediate, unilateral American withdrawal from Vietnam.

In early 1971, he would hold the infamous Winter Soldier Investigation with Jane Fonda and a host of false veterans while his "band of brothers" continued to face deadly fire from "Victor Charlie." Even those "Winter Soldiers" who had actually set foot in Southeast Asia have since admitted their stories were contrived. One such veteran, Steven J. Pitkin, swore in an affadavit last Tuesday:


During the Winter Soldier Investigation, John Kerry and other leaders of that event pressured me to testify about American war crimes, despite my repeated statements that I could not honestly do so. ... Kerry and other leaders of the event instructed me to publicly state that I had witnessed incidents of rape, brutality, atrocities and racism, knowing that such statements would necessarily be untrue.

Pitkin later said, "[Kerry] did what I call extreme coaching" of witnesses.

A mere six months after this performance, John Kerry addressed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April 1971, where he claimed American GIs had:


raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in [a] fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam?.

North Vietnamese jailers used Kerry?s words to torture American POWs, including John McCain. Paul Galanti, who spent more than six years in captivity and volunteered on McCain?s 2000 presidential campaign, said the North Vietnamese often cited Kerry personally: "They wanted us to?confess to war crimes and killing babies and all this other stuff. They kept talking about Vietnam Veterans Against the War, they had seen the right way and?they had crossed over to the peoples' [i.e., Communist] side."

A few months later, Kerry would be the one contemplating violence, attending a VVAW meeting in which that body would consider assassinating a U.S. senator.

Kerry, in other words, served four months, was sent home after three scratches (including one self-inflicted wound to the buttocks) and immediately began giving Americans enemies torture fodder to use against his old Navy buddies in the Hanoi Hilton. During the same one-year period, George W. Bush was racking up 137 flight points, wearing the uniform of his country. He would continue to do so until after America?s involvement in the war ended. Bush?s Guard service, deeply rooted in his sense of patriotism, is beginning to look better and better. And Kerry?s service ? every moment filmed for his political posterity, every loophole exploited out of self-preservation ? is beginning to look less appealing every moment.

And who knows what we?ll find out after John Kerry releases all his service records?


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