Holocaust Survivor Leaving U.S.

[phuloi]

Oh,for Heaven`s sake!

Where DID I put those shades?

The glare from those aluminum foil hats hurt my eyes.

[melody1181]

Hmmm wonder where all those people were that were on that plane went to?? All those people that were killed. I guess they were fictional people or were murdered by the US government.

If I remember right we went to war in Afghanistan for those attacks. I don't agree 100% with Iraq but we had every dam right to go to Afghanistan.

GOOD F***in GRIEF!!!! Get a life man. If thats all you do is look up freaky dink crap thats pretty sad.



This has gotta be my last response to this post. There is something wrong with you if you believe that dribble and nothing is gonna change that. Waistin breath or in this case energy typin.



:re::re::re::re::re::re::re::re::re::re::re::re:

[SuperScout]

One last reply, and then I insist that you go seek counseling:

I could care less where the original story about the peripatetic emigre appeared, be it in the NYT, LAT, or Lower Bayou Picayune and Daily Barf - the basic story is so full of crap that is reeks like a backed-up septic field. Any Jew who wanted to return to the Land of Pogroms is too crazy to be allowed to stay here, and should be deported to Antarctic for his own safety. And in case you haven't had a reality check in about 15 months, the 'main stream media' you tout so loudly is becoming less and less relevant as more accurate news outlets are being used by general folks. And wasn't it rense.com that started pushing the original conspiracy about how GWB plotted with whomever to bring down the WTC etc? And we're supposed to fall all over ourselves, accepting that and other tinfoil helmet wearers as bearers of truth?

As I've advised one other conspiracy advocate on these boards, if you have any proof, or simply a scintilla of evidence of some conspiracy as you want us to embrace, get off your dead ass, onto your dying feet, and run to your nearest FBI office and report it. But don't be surprised if they invite you to wear a tightly fitting white jacket, the haute couture for the funny farm where you just might belong.

And one last thing: do you know anybody that has been hauled off to jail, sans charges, sans indictment, sans any legal proceedings, simply for speaking against the government, as you claim, or is this just another example of your tinfoil helmet being way too tight?

[Seascamp]

An aircraft weighing in at well over 200K lbs, loaded with volatile hydrocarbon fuel, traveling at a velocity of 200 MPH and then impacting a solid structure like the Pentagon is going to yield a totally massive and instantaneous release of energy. The centuries old equation, F=MV squared, where F=force, M= weight/ gravity and velocity is distance/second can be used to plug in the numbers given above to approximate the horrendous and devastating explosive force. Short of that, just watch a video clip Indy car blowing apart with just a partial wall or fence impact to get a feel for the effects of energy on the loose.

Avionics, airframe, human bodies, plastics, fabrics, on and on, are instantly going to change state. And no, flight recorders are not impervious to the laws of physics, only strategically placed to have the best chance of survival, usually low and to the rear. The only things that may be recognizable would be those items that rip away and do not impact the structure and somehow miss the intense, explosive fireball. A forensic examination of the charred and melted bits of this and that using something like a gas chromatograph will absolutely show an overwhelming presence of once aircraft grade aluminum plus about everything else in the mix. Just a matter of how many tons of debris one analyzes, over and over again to see the same results over and over again.

When the conspiracy theorists and leftist rags are prepared to employ known mathematical relationships, centuries old and known physical laws, modern forensic analysis equipment and methodology that is all commercially available, then I?ll be all ears and eyes. Until then, I?ll stick with what has been proven to be true by known scientific methodology.
Alas, universal analysis standards and methods exist but somehow the conspiracy theorists and leftist rags avoid these known tools like the plague and usually dismiss them out of hand. After all, the theater of the mind trumps all known things any day, right?

Scamp

[urbsdad6]

I know I'm beating my head against the wall on this one folks(and ruining my new tinfoil hat and getting my white jacket all scuffed as I type with a poposicle stick taped to my nose) but in all seriousness I appreciate any and all commentary derogatory or not. Just remember that I post to try and get people thinking outside of the box. Alex Jones was the first to start talking about a massive conceal and commit operation two weeks after9/11 happened. I really don't want to be right about this stuff because it makes our country look ugly, but just as a magician can make you believe in magic our Government can make you believe their blood stained laundry is white! I really haven't seen any aircrashes where there wasn't "any" physical evidence left although I'm sure it can and has happened. The supposed crash only reached the third ring in the Pentagon structure plus it was an area undergoing repairs at the time (I admit I could be wrong on that count) but if an airliner of the size described impacted the Pentagon it should have done wayyyyyyyyy more damage than the little hole that punctered it based on the laws of physics in this universe, nez pa? Shouldn't there have been bodies somwhere? Also submitted for your enjoyment and blinder vision in stereo this item which again is not proof nor do I suggest it is proof but start thinking about something greater than your own small worlds where everything is all wrapped up nice and neat in a clean white hanky.

The below article can be found at this site so you can check all the mentioned links within the article:

http://tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_-_al..._you_need.html

9/11 - ALL THE PROOF YOU NEED!

A 9/11 CHECKMATE
BY TvNewsLIES.ORG - April - 2005

Some things are so disturbing that they are almost impossible to believe. That is why, in the 9/11 enigma, less is more.

Until these questions are answered there is no need to establish more doubt. What we have here is solid undisputed evidence that we were never told the truth.

Before you read this article, conduct this test. Try to purchase some stock, or some futures, a mutual fund or some put options, without providing your identity. Go ahead and try it! See if you get anywhere. Find out what happens when you tell the investment firm that you want to make a huge investment anonymously. It can?t be done.

Then ask yourself this question: How could someone have placed anonymous put options on American Airlines and United Airlines just prior to the attacks of 9/11? Then ask yourself why no one has investigated this suspicious deal. Ask yourself why there has been no attempt by the US government to identify the person who anticipated huge profits from a disaster that was yet to occur. Is it because the trail possibly leads to the CIA?

Then wonder about the collapse of Building 7 on the day of the attacks. Ask yourself why the owner of the building allowed the building to be pulled down (intentionally demolished) hours after the Twin Towers fell. Pulling down a building takes weeks of planning and preparation so that explosives can be safely positioned and wired. Not so in this case. Wonder why.

If you have any doubts at all about the official 9/11 story, then the answers to these questions are all the proof you need that something is very, very wrong!

Independent 9/11 researchers have worked nonstop since the events to examine the events of 9/11 and they have uncovered enough information to seriously challenge the official versions of what happened on that fateful day. But maybe, just maybe, the very fact that massive amounts of information are available is a problem in itself. There may be far too much evidence for most Americans to face.

The challenges to the official stories may be too devastating to be processed by the average American who has spent a lifetime believing in the system. Many people can deal with the minor violations that are part of the political scene, but cannot possibly fathom a government that might be complicit in an attack on its own people. They are not unlike the parents who eventually come to terms with a child?s shoplifting spree. The same parents would do anything to deny far more serious accusations. Imagine the response of parents whose son turns out to be a Timothy McVeigh.

Some things are so disturbing that they are almost impossible to believe. That is why, in the 9/11 enigma, less is more. There is a real danger of frightening everyone off by offering too much information. Therefore, if we think of the problem as a chess game, two strategic moves can lead to checkmate.

There are two pieces of the 9/11 puzzle that on their own expose the lies of the administration.

Two questions must be raised so that even the most diehard Bush supporters realize they have been deceived. These are issues that no one can debate or dismiss. These are not conspiracy theories. They are fact-based questions that can lead to exposing the deceptions in the official reports. The apologists have no way to explain these away or justify them. Basically, they offer clear evidence that the official explanations of 9/11 are meaningless.



TWO MOVES TO CHECKMATE

1. THE COVER UP

Someone had foreknowledge of the attacks. In the weeks leading up to 9/11 someone made a series of investments that would have paid off in huge profits because of the attacks. This is well documented and undisputed. This person specifically invested in the two airliners used in the attacks, anticipating windfall profits from any drop in the stock prices of these companies. This is solid evidence that at least one person in the United States had detailed information that something bad was going to happen to the specific airlines that were to be used in the attack.

We have been told that the person who made these investments never claimed the profits. We are expected to believe that this explains why his or her identity is unavailable. This is absolutely untrue. This is not an instance in which someone was waiting to pick up a package at an airport locker. This is a case of a financial institution processing an investment transaction for an individual. This CAN NOT BE PERFORMED ANONYMOUSLY! The identity of this person who had foreknowledge of the attack is know and this person?s identity is being protected by our government and this is a fact! Period, end of story.

WHO MADE THE INVESTMENT? Identify this person and you have someone who very probably had detailed foreknowledge of the events. The fact that the profits were never collected is even more suspicious and incriminating. The fact that the identity of this person remains unknown is even more suspicious. The only possible conclusion is that this person is known to the government and that his or her identity is being protected.

There has been a clear and concerted cover up regarding the person who tried to profit from events he or she knew were coming. The people who could easily clear this up, but who chose to close any further investigation into the matter are not underlings. They are officials who answer directly to the President of the United States. Check.

2. BUILDING 7

On September 11th, Towers One and Two collapsed after suffering direct hits by airliners. Building 7 was neither hit by an airliner nor damaged severely by flying debris, but at 5:20 p.m. it collapsed in the exact same accordion style of the other two towers. The official explanation by FEMA investigators claimed that WTC 7 fell as a result of burning for 7 hours.

Several weeks after the events of 9/11, Larry Silverstein, the new owner of the WTC was interviewed on TV. At this time he openly acknowledged the decision to pull Building 7. This was a public statement in which the owner of the WTC agreed to the destruction of the building.

This decision was never explained and was never questioned by the Kean Commission. The conflicting report of the FEMA investigators was also never explained. Pulling a building requires weeks, if not months of preparation. Explosives have to be carefully and strategically placed and wired. How was it possible to pull a building without first preparing for its demolition?

Larry Silverstein invested $386 million in WTC 7. On 9/11, by his own admission, Larry Silverstein ordered the demolition of his building. In February of 2002, his company won a settlement of $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers. Do the math. No one investigated. This is a confession to the demolition of Building 7. Let me repeat that, THIS IS A CONFESSION! Checkmate.

Until these questions are answered there is no need to establish more doubt. What we have here is solid undisputed evidence that we were never told the truth. We have solid evidence that the official investigation stopped short of delving into questions that could have supplied answers. We have solid proof that something is very, very wrong.

There is a mountain of unanswered questions concerning the events surrounding the 9/11 attacks. Anyone willing to listen or look at the inconsistencies would have to draw an obvious conclusion: the official explanation of the events of 9/11 is nothing more than a desperate attempt to distract the American people from investigating the truth. There can be no denying that there are a number of strange and puzzling occurrences that have never been, and seemingly cannot be explained.

Perhaps the abundance of startling and damning information is too incredible to be accepted easily by the millions of Americans who have bought into the corporate media's version of the events. So many people in this country can not deal with, or accept any real challenge to the official explanation that allows for no foreknowledge or cover up by their government. Even if most Americans were to be presented with clearly corroborated facts or cold evidence, they would probably refuse to even consider the involvement of their elected leaders in a tragedy of such huge proportions.

The official story, however, collapses after an examination of the two questions just raised. Very simply put, case closed. We do not need to pull an OJ here and bury the obvious under more evidence than the jury can handle. Show the Bronco chase and the blood evidence, and rest the prosecution. Otherwise we risk badly confusing a jury of the uninformed.

It is vital that the evidence based community encourage the American public to question the events for themselves. Two questions of this magnitude are enough to raise reasonable doubt. Two such questions that have gone uninvestigated and unexplained are enough to arouse curiosity,

We?re in a very dangerous game, here, and all of us are players. Much of what happened on September 11th remains at best unclear, and at worst terribly suspicious. The reality that the President of the United States spent more than 18 months resisting an official investigation into the most devastating tragedy in our history is in itself an outrage. But the reality that there is no official body still seeking answers to vital questions is an even greater outrage.

And if that remains the case, we all will have been checkmated, en masse.

Editor's NOTE: People might comment on this article by calling it a conspiracy theory. This is their usual way of dismissing the facts. I ask you, where exactly is there ?theory? on this page? What elements of this article are in dispute? This is not a theory, this article poses questions that have not been answered and the people who call the results of the independent 9/11 research community ?conspiracy theories? have yet to qualify their assertion. You can not simply call something a ?theory? just because you have not looked closely enough to see the facts that have been presented. If you call this a theory you are in denial. Very simply put, you can not debate this issue. Many people will dismiss this, as they do all evidence that goes against what they want to believe, yet when asked what their criteria is for discerning between theory and fact, they will not have a logical answer. This is not theory and neither are the facts that have been brought to light by the many people involved in the legitimate independent 9/11 research community.

An URGENT Message from the Editor!
WHY AMERICANS REFUSE TO BELIEVE THE 9/11 EVIDENCE!!! - The attacks of 9/11 were so unthinkable that most Americans would refuse to believe the complicity of their own government, even if presented with a mountain of evidence. - Very simply, it is possible to escape blame if you do something that nobody in the world believes you could do.
DAVID RAY GRIFFIN: ALMOST PERFECT ABOUT 9/11!
Before you call this a ?Conspiracy Theory? read this! Learn the difference between theory and fact!
Close-Up of WTC-7 Collapse Footage Shows Unmistakable Demolition Charges
Professional Demolition of World Trade Center Building 7 - On-line videos and in depth analysis.
9/11 Video Selection
How Building Implosions Work


Sleep well tonite your government is watching out for you after they cover there tracks.

Doc Urb

[reconeil]

Urb's: "Whether or not this old guy is real or fictional...",SEZ-IT-ALL for me.

Such explains the typically purposeful Leftist or DNC deceits, underminings, name callings and character assassinating of everyone Republican or Conservative (even in Military during wartime).

Whether for: "Real or fictional" reasons, Republicans/Conservatives MUST BE BASHED CONTINUALLY and over and over and over, and most everywhere possible.
Hey,...how else can Madam Hillary and Gang: "Recapture The White House? Be an HONEST Democrat, and LOOSE FOR SURE dummy.

Whatever, no one should fall for such obviously deceptive Leftist tactics for gaining power and control,...anyway, anywhere or anytime. Leftist Socialism and Freedom & Liberty,...just don't mix well AT ALL.

Neil

[David]

The Political Debate forum has always been a free for all and while I do not necessarily subscribe to urbsdad6 beliefs the way people in this forum go about attacking other members is not very helpful nor becoming to fellow veterans.

I would like to state a couple things here:

1. When you have incidents like Watergate happening how can you blame some for looking to find the answers between the lines? Is this reason to crucify them?

2. Rather then simply berating people live up to your own standards and disprove the statements made. The burden of proof may be on the accuser but without a solid defense you can be sure the prosecution will win over time every time.

[urbsdad6]

Neil

Just understand we had no choice in the last election. Both candidates were saying the same things with different spins so as far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter what your politics are there is a bigger picture to be dealt with that goes beyond personal political choice. A rigged election with machines that no one is allowed access to does not favor anyone in this country. As far as I'm concerned a country with elections that allow you the false sense of security of believing you are getting your Constitutional rights offers no choice in the end and that is pretty close to a dictatorship.


Doc Urb

[Gimpy]

David said!

[Advisor]

Urbs...rigged elections?? You're talking about 1960 Chicago, right?