The Patriot Files Forums  

Go Back   The Patriot Files Forums > Conflict posts > Vietnam

Post New Thread  Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-21-2002, 06:07 AM
SeaSoldier SeaSoldier is offline
Junior Member
 

Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 21
Default Terry Barton Charged with starting fire.

by Michelle Malkin

Terry Barton, a U.S. Forest Service worker, was charged this week with intentionally setting the largest wildfire in Colorado history. It is a black mark on the beleaguered federal agency. But it's not the blackest mark.

Last summer, four young firefighters died at the Thirtymile Fire in Washington state's Okanogan National Forest: Tom Craven, Karen FitzPatrick, Jessica Johnson and Devin Weaver. Craven, 30, was a father of two and an eight-year veteran with the Naches Ranger District. FitzPatrick, 18, was a newly minted high school grad and had been with the Forest Service for three weeks. Johnson, 19, was a college student who developed a passion for firefighting in high school. Weaver, 21, was an electrical engineering student who had completed firefighter training six weeks earlier.

If you believe the government's version of events, as inscribed on a Forest Service memorial to be unveiled next month, here is what happened to the quartet: "On July 10, 2001, high temperatures, low humidity and severe drought conditions caused an abandoned cooking fire to ultimately erupt into a devastating firestorm that swept up the Chewuch River valley, trapping 14 firefighters and 2 campers. Four dedicated firefighters perished in a valiant effort to battle the Thirtymile Fire."

The agency is spending $32,000 to build the memorial. It is a cheap investment in bureaucratic propaganda at the expense of the dead. The truth is that the four firefighters perished because of the Forest Service's gross incompetence. And not a single person has been held publicly accountable for the fatal failures.

"One of the things we're having trouble with is, the Forest Service is making these kids look like heroes," Devin Weaver's mother, Barbara, told the Wenatchee World this week. "Their lives were taken from them. They were not out there trying to save somebody's life. They were led down a dead-end road and sat there to do nothing -- that's the story." Indeed, the inferno had raged for more than a day; it didn't suddenly "erupt."

Trapped firefighters waited for more than nine hours for water to be dropped, while bureaucrats dithered over concerns about endangered species in the water supply. It was too late for Craven, FitzPatrick, Johnson and Weaver, who died in their emergency fire shelters as the fires swept over them.

Weaver's father, Ken, said: "I don't mind them memorializing my son. The problem is half of their motive is to spin this into this heroic, American flag waving, died for his country theme, which casts the scrutiny in a completely different direction."

The Forest Service's shameless revisionism about the Thirtymile Fire shows that it's still more interested in blowing smokescreens than in clearing them. Last month, the agency released a final report so full of blacked-out redactions that it looked like the authors had used the pages to clean a charcoal grill. Unnamed managers and commanders were faulted for violating 10 of 18 fundamental firefighting signs of danger. They failed to plan adequate escape routes, neglected to take weather readings and gave out faulty equipment.

Eleven employees were recommended for disciplinary action based on their abysmal performances during the fire in the Okanogan National Forest. But the agency refused to name any of them, wouldn't reveal what kind of discipline they received and refuses to disclose whether any have been fired. A separate Occupational Safety and Health Administration investigation determined the Forest Service willfully disregarded the safety of its workers at the fire. But the findings are useless because the Forest Service is exempt from OSHA enforcement.

At least Terry Barton, the accused Forest Service fire-setter, will be held accountable in a court of law on charges of endangering property and lives. The same cannot be said of the Forest Service employees responsible for the totally preventable deaths of Tom Craven, Karen FitzPatrick, Jessica Johnson and Devin Weaver.

The Forest Service motto reads: "Caring for the land and serving people." By continuing to hide the identities of the bungle-crats who oversaw the deadly Thirtymile Fire, the agency's real mission is clear: Covering up and serving themselves.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 06-21-2002, 07:58 AM
Keith_Hixson's Avatar
Keith_Hixson Keith_Hixson is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Washington, the state
Posts: 5,022
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Default It's the Same Old Thing.

Large institutions like government, corporations, Catholic church have a life of their own. Protectionism, cover-ups, etc become necessary (choke) to protect the internal system. The three kids who were killed were from Yakima, WA and the youngman, crew chief, was from Ellensburg, WA. (The place I live). Cover-up, slip away and hide is how large institutions function. Any student of history will tell you those facts.

I am sure the names of the disciplined employees will come to light eventually. The big problem was the arguing about enviromental issues and allowing the fire to build up into a dangerous blaze while they sat obeying orders until they burned.

But, should it surprise us that protectionism of the internal organization should take place. Not my fault. Shift around them priests. Protect the status quo. Happens everyday all the time around the world. Its wrong but it is the part of the dark side of human nature.

Everytime we tell a "white lie" to get the boss off our back or tell our wife we got the milk when haven't, etc. We are engaging in the same thing, howbeit on a smaller, less dangerous scale. Lest we forget there is a dark side to human nature, and we are all guilty of giving in to it once in awhile. The biggest problem is when it gets to the corporate, governmental level innocent people get hurt and sometimes killed. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

Keith
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-21-2002, 08:59 AM
Seascamp Seascamp is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,754
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Default

Our rural Nevada county is a multi-jurisdictional/ border area and because wild fires recognize no political boundaries/responsibility areas any given fire could have the US Forrest Service, Nevada Forest Service, California Division of Forestry, BLM, local VFD, Nevada Department of Corrections and town FD?s all on the same burn. Given severity, Guard units? and/ or the Pickle Meadow Marines can be in the mix as well. All to often jurisdictional/turf battles erupt and the fire becomes the last of concerns. A few years back a VFD rolled out on a lightning strike fire with their pumper, tanker and brush rig (that?s all the equipment each our 10 VFD stations have), got things contained and about that time the US Forrest Service shows up and boots them off the fire because they?d crossed the imaginary line in the sand. OK, but the Forrest Service didn?t bring any equipment to the ceremonial kicking out of the VFD. Bad news, that fire burst out again and half destroyed one of our local Burgs, scores of homes and the finger pointing and name-calling began. The Forrest Service contention was that VFDs aren?t as well trained as FS professionals therefore?ta dot ta da. Logic dictates that a pumper, tanker and brush rig plus eight experienced fire fighters are better than no fire fighters or equipment at all. Big lawsuit time and that?s still kicking around in the courts. About the only good to come of all that is that the FS isn?t so quick to bully and push around the VFDs anymore and are more polite to them, just a tad bit, almost maybe. As well, agreements are now in place as to exactly who will be the singular fire boss under given circumstances. The key thought is ?singular?, what a novel idea. Seems to workout, maybe.

Forevermore, issues of priorities, allegiances, authority and turf rule the day and all to often results and actions defy rational thinking and assault the concept of common sense. Sometimes I get the feeling that that is as good as it gets anywhere.

Fair seas, Bill

Last edited by 82Rigger; 07-14-2008 at 12:59 AM.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-21-2002, 10:35 AM
Keith_Hixson's Avatar
Keith_Hixson Keith_Hixson is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Washington, the state
Posts: 5,022
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Unhappy Just remember a little chuckle in firefighting.

Our fire dept. responded to a rural brush fire that wasn't in our district. We had the fire in control when the fire dept. in which the fire was located showed up. They told us what a good job we had done and then promptly turned around and left. The Chief and I consulted together with each other and we felt someone should stay at the scene for at least another 12 hours in case the fire flared up again. I and another young fireman spent the night on this fire making sure it was under control and it wasn't even in our jurisdiction. I was angry with the little rural fire department, because it was their job but I was glad we did the right thing regardless of jurisdiction. So what I lost a night's sleep. Protection of property and human life was more important. In my opinion the first thing is the safety of others regardless of territory. I was glad the chief and I both felt the same way. Our chief did contact the little rural department's chief and complain, a friendly chief to chief complaint. But why can't people make those kind of decisions?

Keith
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-21-2002, 11:26 AM
Seascamp Seascamp is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,754
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Thumbs up

Keith, you did that as well, all right. I spent sometime with the East Fork VFD when not working away from home. I was always assigned to the brush rig and did my share of humping around the hills, canyons and valleys and got in on a few burns. There was no pay for all that, but the VFD firehouse always had the refer stocked with the finest of beers and fantastic munchies when the fire was out. Like magic, we?d get back and bingo, the beer and munchy fairy had paid a call. It was great fun, hard work and good memories for sure. We are probably the only VFD to ever get a pumper stuck in the firehouse. We?d been doing a bunch of BBQ cooking for a VFD fundraiser and one of the Lads accidentally spilled a bunch of hot chicken fat all over the floor. Then sure as heck a brush fire call came in. We tried to scram but the drive wheels hit the chicken fat and just spun to no good purpose, drat. A couple hundred pounds of dirt shoveled in and a pull chain hooked to the brush rig got the pumper out. Of course someone always blabs so we were the brunt of rude jokes for quite a while. Aarrgg!!

Fair seas, Bill


sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-21-2002, 01:14 PM
Keith_Hixson's Avatar
Keith_Hixson Keith_Hixson is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Washington, the state
Posts: 5,022
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Default We had to stop!

We had a couple of problems with the under age fire fighters getting into the beer. The Police and Sheriff's department politely warned us about a state law prohibiting alcoholic beverages in a public work area, including fire stations and police stations. I don't drink so it didn't affect me. But, boy there was a lot of complaining. Probably a good law! Some undisciplined guy would probably go out and try to fight a fire and get himself and others hurt. Best to go down to the local watering hole.

Keith
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-21-2002, 01:23 PM
phuloi's Avatar
phuloi phuloi is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,047
Distinctions
Coordinator VOM Contributor 
Default Enviro-Nazis

Are directly to blame for the lives of those four youngsters on the Okanogon and I`ll tell you why.I worked for the U.S.Forest Service from 1979-1991 and know how fire suppression is supposed to work and how it is taught.During this period of time the FS was doing what they were formulated to do-sell timber.Now I`ll be the first to admit that they over-harvested for many years before a sivilculturally sound sustainable yield forestry plan was initiated in the great Fir and Hemlock forests of the Pacific Northwest.Unfortunately,it took just long enough for the tree-huggers to get thier Birkenstocks in the door with a threat to endangered species like the Northern Spotted Owl and the Marbled Murelet and slugs and spiders and,and.and....So,what`s this got to do with fire suppression,you may ask?Well,when timber was being harvested a part of the prescription was burning slash(the remnants of logging)which readied the soil for replanting the next generation-sorta like a farmer tilling his fields..So there was in place a well trained fire crew with a military type of chain of command structure.EVERY ranger district on EVERY national forest had a fire crew that was backed up,as a rear guard,by the remainder of the district personel,most of whom had extensive training in fire behavior,etc.These were the people that were deployed on wildfires-not a bunch of college kids with little training and NO expierence on the line.So,after a good ten years what happens? No trained,expierienced people,other than mabe"Hotshot Crews"are put in harm`s way to suppress huge wildfires that are,and believe me on this,killers.I`m pissed off,so excuse my rambling on this issue.But it`s very close to me.I`ve seen too many people hurt.Those kids should never had been put in a position where deploying fire shelters was necessary.God bless them and have mercy on those that sent them.
__________________
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is
strong enough to take everything you have. ~Thomas Jefferson


Peace,Griz
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-21-2002, 05:34 PM
Keith_Hixson's Avatar
Keith_Hixson Keith_Hixson is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Washington, the state
Posts: 5,022
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Default I lived in Winthrop for 2 years.

The place of the fire is north of Winthrop on the Chewack River. I have driven by that camp ground many times. It was very early in the fire fighting season. The fire was new and small when the kids were sent in. I don't know why kids from the Naches area, a couple hundred miles south were used to fight a fire in the North Cascades? But they were there. Griz you are right. Those kids didn't belong there! But, I don't think they thought it was going to be that bad of a fire, a teaching situation. The biggest mistake was not using fire supression air planes and worry about the trout later. I have never heard of any endanger species in the Chewack River. They stock it with trout every year. (At least 20 years ago they did). However that area has been know for its bad fires for years. We had them in that area when I lived there.

I wonder why the smoke jumpers weren't used? Probably because you could drive to the fire. There is a big smoke jumper base just outside Winthrop. Anyway, time will tell. But Griz is right, lots of mistakes and no one is at fault.

Keith
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-21-2002, 05:43 PM
39mto39g 39mto39g is offline
Banned
 

Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,380
Distinctions
Contributor 
Default SS

There is no way that I would ever stick up for the people in charge of any governmental organization. That being said.
If your commander ordered you down a dead end road to defend a aera, and you seen it was going to be over-run, maybe you should leave the area. When we are in a fire and it gets to the point where Im not at ease with whats going on around me, I get my crew and we leave, no matter what anyone says. Your own safety is first. Instead of staying where they were told to stay they should have said bite me, Im outa hear.
Then go back to camp and kick some brass ass for leaving us there.
That doesn't bring them back but at some point ya have to take responsability for yourself.
Ron
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-21-2002, 06:02 PM
Keith_Hixson's Avatar
Keith_Hixson Keith_Hixson is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Washington, the state
Posts: 5,022
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Default Once the Chief told me to take my crew.

I was leading leading my crew into a burning building of a very large fire in an older business section of town. One timber came down and out we came. I told the chief no way am I going risk my life when ceiling timbers are falling front of me. Fortunately the Chief agreed! We lost the building (It was already gone) but no major injuries or deaths. The Chief just didn't realize the building was starting to cave in. That was one time I was one scare fellow.
The leadership at the scene should have backed ealier I would assume, but I wasn't there.

Keith
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LT Terry 39mto39g Vietnam 6 03-20-2006 07:26 AM
Round Two!----Terry Schaivo. Gimpy Political Debate 2 06-21-2005 09:09 AM
Terry Schiavo's so called husband Arrow General Posts 83 03-25-2005 07:49 AM
Just Into The Starting Gate, And Already Bitching!? HARDCORE General Posts 1 11-02-2004 11:46 AM
Democrat Terry Mc Auliffe cadetat6 General Posts 4 02-10-2004 02:14 PM

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.