Wreck of renowned British warship found in Channel

[82Rigger]

By MITCH STACY, Tampa, Fla.

Florida deep-sea explorers who found $500 million in sunken treasure two years ago say they have discovered another prized shipwreck: A legendary British man-of-war that sank in the English Channel 264 years ago.
Odyssey Marine Exploration hasn't found any gold this time, but it's looking for an even bigger jackpot. The company's research indicates the HMS Victory was carrying 4 tons of gold coins that could be worth considerably more than the treasure that Odyssey raised from a sunken Spanish galleon in 2007, co-founder Greg Stemm said ahead of a news conference set for Monday in London.

So far, Odyssey has recovered two brass cannons from the wreck of the Victory and continues to examine and map the debris field, which lies about 330 feet beneath the surface, Stemm said. The company said it is negotiating with the British government over collaborating on the project.
"This is a big one, just because of the history," Stemm said. "Very rarely do you solve an age-old mystery like this."

Odyssey said the 31 brass cannons and other evidence on the wreck allowed definitive identification of the HMS Victory, 175-foot sailing ship that was separated from its fleet during a storm and sank in the English Channel on Oct. 4, 1744, with at least 900 men aboard. The ship was the largest and, with 110 brass cannons, the most heavily armed vessel of its day. It was the inspiration for the HMS Victory famously commanded by Adm. Horatio Nelson decades later.

Odyssey was searching for other valuable shipwrecks in the English Channel when it came across the Victory. Stemm wouldn't say exactly where the ship was found for fear of attracting plunderers, though he said it wasn't close to where it was expected to be.

"We found this more than 50 miles from where anybody would have thought it went down," Stemm said. Federal court records filed by Odyssey in Tampa seeking the exclusive salvage rights said the site is 25 to 40 miles from the English coast, outside of its territorial waters.

A Ministry of Defense spokesman said Sunday the government was aware of Odyssey's claim to have found the Victory.

"Assuming the wreck is indeed that of a British warship, her remains are sovereign immune," he said on condition of anonymity in keeping with government policy. "This means that no intrusive action may be taken without the express consent of the United Kingdom."

He would not say whether the government had begun talks with Odyssey over the future of the find.

Newspapers of the day and other historical records analyzed by the company indicated that the Victory sank off the Channel Island of Alderney near Cherbourg, France. A 1991 British postage stamp depicts the Victory crashing on the rocks there. Pieces of the ship had washed up in various places, but its final resting place had remained a mystery.

The belief that the Victory had crashed onto the rocks had marred an otherwise exemplary service record of the ship's commander, Sir John Balchin, and a lighthouse keeper on Alderney was prosecuted for failing to keep the light on. Odyssey believes the discovery exonerates both men.
"As far as the family is concerned, it is an astonishing revelation," said Robert Balchin, a 66-year-old British university administrator and direct descendant of the commander. "It's as if he's sort of come alive again.

"When I went to see this extraordinary find of the cannon with the coat of arms of the king on the side, it was really a wonderful feeling to know that Sir John Balchin saw that every day, and it brought a very special communion with the past."

The HMS Victory was returning from Lisbon, Portugal, and was probably transporting 100,000 gold Portuguese coins for merchants, according to Odyssey's research. The ship had sailed there to help rescue a Mediterranean convoy blockaded by the French in the River Tagus at Lisbon.

The wreck site is roughly 70 feet by 200 feet and littered with other debris, Odyssey said. Its research ship, Odyssey Explorer, is equipped with a remote underwater robot capable of carefully removing the smallest of items from the bottom and shooting high-resolution photos and video.

Odyssey, a publicly traded corporation, announced in May 2007 that it had raised 17 tons of silver coins from an Atlantic Ocean shipwreck. The company later said it believed the wreck to be the Spanish galleon Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes y las Animas, which sank off Portugal in 1804.



HMS Victory





Class and type: 1733 proposals 100-gun first rate ship of the line

Tons burthen: 1,921 long tons (1,951.8 t)

Length: 174 ft (53 m)

Gundeck Beam: 50 ft (15 m)

Draught: 18 ft (5.5 m)

Depth of hold: 20 ft 6 in (6.2 m)

Sail plan: Full rigged ship

Complement: Around 900

Armament:

100 guns:

Gundeck: 28 × 42 pdrs

Middle gundeck: 28 × 24 pdrs


Upper gundeck: 28 × 12 pdrs

Quarterdeck: 12 × 6 pdrs

Forecastle: 4 × 6 pdrs

[Seascamp]

The HMS Victory that is at the Portsmouth dry dock is per the attached link. It is a lot less ornate than the sunken HMS Victory and a fantastic tour, very well done and the tour guides really know their stuff. What amazes is how short the people were in those times and the low overhead on the gun decks. Bad ju ju to wear my glasses because the brow piece masked the transverse beams; melon conk n’ re conk, eh. For those that enjoy Naval history, the HMS Victory is a UK must see. As it turns out the Captain of the Victory at Trafalgar; Tomas Hardy, stood over six ft. tall and a rarity at the time, so I imagine he had a heck of a time getting around below the main deck.

The HMS Victory that is at the Portsmouth dry dock is per the attached link. It is a lot less ornate than the sunken HMS Victory and a fantastic tour, very well done and the tour guides really know their stuff. What amazes is how short the people were in those times and the low overhead on the gun decks. Bad ju ju to wear my glasses because the brow piece masked the transverse beams; melon conk n’ re conk, eh. For those that enjoy Naval history, the HMS Victory is a UK must see.

Scamp

http://www.historicdockyard.co.uk/hmsvictory/

[82Rigger]

28 42-pound guns and 28 24-pound guns...

SHIVER ME TIMBERS!!

If I was a pirate, I'd have to think twice about messin' with that bad lady, no matter HOW much gold coin she had aboard!

[Seascamp]

In the rank of ships, nobody messed with the first ships of the line; usually four gun decks mounting 100 or more big cannon. Slow plowing beasts of the sea, but impervious to all things except nature and other first ships of the line; more or less transport banks at the time. Frigates were fast by comparison and in the role of fending off the pirate wolves from the merchant fleet or scouting for the ships of the line. The US could not afford to build a ship of the line, so built the Fat Frigate that could stand no chance against a ship of the line but that could out run them and any frigate at the time plus outgun any frigate at the time. The pirates at the time stood no chance and against a ship of the line or a frigate, let alone a USN “Fat Frigate“. The sole survivor being the USS Constitution. My reckoning is that the early Fat Frigates of the USN set the concept of the later USN Cruiser; know as the fleet “greyhounds“. Pleasure to have served on the last of them, the USS Canberra. Teak decks, big guns, fast, more or less n‘ maybe; the old gals could not run as fast as the big fleet dogs anymore, and going out to take a fight or pick a fight, more the latter than the former, but Ok.

Scamp

[Seascamp]

And Steve, as you well know, no study of firearms is complete without trying to figure out the genius and path of it all. In the age of oak ships and fighting sail there is some amazing stuff. Rather a journey through all kinds of sciences, myth, religious doctrine, iron and brass casting technology as was known at the time, chemistry of explosives, then as now. As time allows, I try to figure this stuff out, kind of a hobby deal.

Scamp

[82Rigger]

Scamper,

Didn't know you were into that arena of sailing history, but right you are!

Knowledge of the armament of wooden vessels of sail proves interesting and useful.

For sunken ships of steel hull, the ship's bell is the "official" identifier of the vessel.

But for sunken wooden ships of the 17th and 18th centuries there is often little trace remaining except for ballast stones and cannon.

Detailed records of the ships' guns survive, even from the 17th century.

The style and ornamentation of the gun will identify its country of origin,
and the Royal Crest at the base of the tube will identify the reigning monarch at the cannons' casting. A serial number or casting number clinches the I.D.

Fascinating stuff!

[82Rigger]

Just learned, to my surprise, that there were no surviving 42 pound Naval cannon anywhere in the world on dry land until now.

They were known to be aboard the VICTORY and one other sunken first ship of the line which location is still unknown.

To me, this cannon is a bigger find than all that damn gold.

Here's some photos of the 42-pounder:



Cannon in situ on sea floor. Royal Crest of King George I (1714-1727)

[82Rigger]

42-pounder being raised. It weighs about 8,000 pounds.
Length of the tube is 11.5 feet. Bore diameter is 7 inches.





42-pounder next to a 12-pounder.





42-pounder full length top view.



This coming Thursday evening, Feb 5th, 8 P.M. CST, The Discovery Channel will air a documentary program on the finding of the HMS Victory.

[82Rigger]

Guess I should mention that HMS Victory was the last 100-gun ship of the line
to sink with a full complement of BRONZE guns.

Iron cannon deteriorate in sea water so badly that sometimes they are almost unrecognizable as gun tubes.

The bronze tubes, as you can see, have held up quite well after 264 years in the sea.

[revwardoc]

Here's a salty ditty from the days of wooden ships and iron men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m-xZ...layer_embedded