We Have Seen The Enemy

[skeeter]

We have seen the enemy - and they are us!

Could I kill someone? Of course, given the right circumstances.

Could I torture someone? Probably, if I was given the order, and was frightened enough.

What did everyone expect? This is war. Horrible things happen in a war.

Let's not act too shocked.

And does all this make me sick? You betcha. (to paraphrase Rumsfeld) But does it come as a shock? No. I lived thru the Korea and Vietnam wars -- Where we shot and bombed whole villages of women and children. Why? I was given an order by higher command.


So now we have the indelible images of our times with the photographs at the Abu Ghaib.

They may have changed the course of history; Just how much we do not yet know. It is arguable that without them, news of what happened within the walls of that prison would never have emerged from the fog of classified memos. We owe their circulation and perhaps their existence to the popular technology of our day. to digital cameras and JPEG and e-mail.

But we have always made pictures and saved their images of our history, good and bad, and how we in Americaa treat our citizens.

Some Americans may say, we don't seem to have a long tradition of that sort of thing. WRONG!

There have been many atrocity photographs over the years, of course - Here is an example of our past.

Log on to this and click on the "movie" side on the left column.

http://www.musarium.com/withoutsanctuary/main.html

And lest we not forget..

[melody1181]

Won't comment to much but must say that you must LOVE pissing people off.

[Bill Farnie]

"Where we shot and bombed whole villages of women and children. Why? I was given an order by higher command"

Maybe you did, but I sure as hell didn't.

Who are you John Kerry????

[Boats]

There's got to be a better way to tell the truth - shocking the troops doesn't always have the same affect. I agree many things were done in the heat of a battle. Though these are more less survival instincts that kick in keeping your butt from becoming a statistic.

More or less I feel disappointment that this occurred and I worry for the captured troops who have to bear the brunt of the revenge possibilities.

These prison guards have a duty to preform and if they thought they were only doing their duty (abusing the prisoners) then they should think a little further out and see the problems that this has caused our troops in the field.

Guards have a duty to their country and a moral duty to consider - especially if they were sometime later to be captured themselves - how would they like to treated? The eye for an eye issue can really get real ugly.

Just a few can screw up the whole works.

[Arrow]

Skeeter,

I would find your statements much more credible if you would report them to the proper authorities that they may take action against youand those you say commanded you to commit these acts.

I read where you are on an internet site withour former President Clinton. I am sure he has the connections to get you before a Senate hearing that you may bring yourself and those that commanded you tocommit these actsto justice.

I find your excuse that you were just following orderspales in comparison to the courage of Hugh Thompson when he placed himself between Americantroops on the ground at My Lai and those that were being slaughtered.A true hero. A man of conviction. And to my way of thinking far more representatvie of the Vietnam Veteran thanyou and those you saycommanded you to commit these acts.

Just my thoughts,

Arrow>>>>>>



http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/Myl_hero.html

[Seascamp]

Speak for yourself Capt?n. I have no wartime tradition of torture and murder and as I?ve stated before, if I did my job right everyone got to try to have another birthday, friend and foe alike. Me thinks you are coming to breathe your own PC ?relativity? air way too much and way too often.

Scamp

[phuloi]

I don`t (oops,sorry..I forgot-you are unaware of apostrophies in the English language)DO NOT like you.Never have.You are a mole.

Take your grandiose remarks concerning war atrocities that you have committed to the proper authorities,like Little Sparrow suggested,or post them on some veteran-denigrating website that you frequent.Take them anywhere..but keep them out of here.

[skeeter]

I may have been a bit harsh on the "women and children" being killed. However, there were many, many times in North Korea the North Korean military troops would infiltrate with the civilian population, and disguise as farmers, women, and sometime as older children.

War is war and you cannot pick and choose who is the enemy when they are in the same location, and bear the same dress as civilians. Many American Marines, Army troops found that out in their fighting in Korea.

Little Sparrow:

So you find that a Navy fighter pilot with his aircraft loaded with ordnance(bombs, rockets, and napalm) when he leaves the deck of the carrier has his own agenda, and whereabouts he is to place his weapons upon the enemy? No Way!.. All missions are set by a CAG officer and other military higher commands, who designates when, where, and how each pilot with his aircraft to perform the mission.

During the Korea war aboard the carrier in the air department ready rooms, all details and plans are given, and you are assigned(vectored) targets. You are to carry out those assignments, and at best to the commands you have been given. Should you for some reason didn't perform those duties, your report better have a good and logic reason.

In one example, in July 1952 the North Korean troops on a road heading south in a convoy of trucks were two NKPA regiments consisting of seven to eight hundred N. Korean military force. In between these trucks and around were several hundred civilians, men, women, and maybe some children. As I mentioned above, the enemy had been found to infiltrate and disguise as civilians.
Just a few miles south of this location were about one hundred American troops waiting orders, and some relaxation from the war. Not knowing, soon they very well be wiped out from the oncoming enemy.

Well to make this all end. Eight F2H-2B Banshee jets loaded with all forms of ordnance help saves a lot of American lives.
I know this is true, as I was the lead jet to see no enemy came out alive, no matter how they were dressed.

Now you have your field-day on this

[Arrow]

Skeeter,

Perhaps youshould havebeen as definitive in your first post as you were your last.

Thank you,

Arrow>>>>>>

[Alfred Gepfert]

I dont think we are seeing the enmey,to me it is Islam they hate us an always will,We need to wipe them from the planet,befor they wipe us all out. This IS WAR.