Torture Iraq prisoners

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by sfc_darrel SparrowHawk62 - Points for you to consider!!
1. This is Patriot Files.com not Veterans.com
2. Little Sparrow (Broken Arrow) fought one of the hardest battles there is to fight. Supporting her VETERAN, being strong, giving and holding on to hope, praying for a miracle and then burying him. Not entitled to an opinion??
We may disagree with some of Broken Arrows posts, but by GOD, she has earned the right to make them!
3. You stated that wives, husbands, mothers, fathers, siblings, children are not veterans unless they have served in the military and never been in combat unless they have been shot at while serving in the armed forces.
My wife and children were with me when I was stationed at Ft. Clayton, Panama when Operation Just Cause was executed. You may or may not know that was when we took out Noriega. Mortar rounds were falling within two blocks of our quarters where they hunkered down under blackout conditions. NOT veterans, NEVER been in combat?? Were you ever in a battle? My wife, daughter (at 13 years old) and my son (a 5 year old now 20) have been in combat. I believe they have the right to an opinion.
My mother can Spit Shine boots with the best of them (she taught me how when I joined). She listened to the news and watched the news reels during WW2. And was a ?Rosie the Riveter?. Looking and listening for word of my dad. Then 30 odd years later she watched the TV for me during Nam and Panama. For hours on end. For hours on end. She can probably tell you more operations that happened during those conflicts than you can ever imagine. Not a veteran, give me a break.
I was exposed to Agent Orange in Nam, Every time I have an unexplained rash my wife fears the worst until she drags me to the Dr. to find out what is going on. Son in the Navy who she tracks every movement of when he is deployed, one who tracks the news about what is going on in the world in case her son may be deployed there. Not a veteran?
Your opinions and posts, however, have lost any meaning, YOU have no knowledge of what constitutes who is a veteran.
Dad and Aunt & Uncle, U.S. Army; brother, U.S. Navy; brothers-in-law, U.S. Navy and U.S. Marines; Fathers-in-law, U.S. Army/Navy (served in both) and U.S. Army; Son, Navy; Son & daughter-in-law, U.S. Air Force; Son-in-law, Navy; Nephew, U.S. Air Force and a Cousin, Army-on The Wall. Officer and enlisted, special forces, medic and clerk typist and everything in between.
Go away Sparrow Hawk 62. Your bigotry will not be tolerated by ME at least!!
SFC (RET) Darrel Miller and very extended MILITARY family.

Now here's a guy who woke up with his helmet on to tight! Let me respond to your so called points. You have a good way of twisting what was said so it fits your agenda.
1. I am aware of what this forum is titled.
2. I never said she is not entitled to her opinion.
3. I did not say these people are not entitled to their opinions. I did not say you had to be shot at to be a combat veteran. Re-read my post. You have combined two messages into one. You having put your family in harms way does not make them veterans, more so they are victims. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Guilt does not a veteran make.
If I am to except you definition of a Veteran, then every Flag flying American should be called a Veteran? Every one who sits in front of a TV to watch the war coverage is a Veteran? It is you sir who wants to glorify all those you feel necessary to do so. In your long list of people you express that they have served in the Military, they have earned the title Veteran. This is a title that is earned not bestow upon some one.
I'll use your loose term for being in battle. By doing so I can say I've been in many. I've fought battles with other gangs before going into the Navy. Hey, I'm combat wounded since I still have the scar from being stabbed. I played many sports, are these matches not battles too? While in the Navy, I saw BAYROT up close and personal. It was a battle working on the flight deck, death only a few inches away at times. It was a battle keeping the sixty or so people who worked for me alive and safe. Weren't to many battles at the Brig, small skirmishes but no battles.
While I worked as a Cop and a Correction Officer. Battles were an almost daily occurrence. Be they hand to hand or one on forty.
I've found myself in the middle of gang fights. I wasn't in either gang but yet the danger was there. Fighting to keep a person alive who's attempted suicide is a small battle.
So, I can call myself pretty much what ever I want using your terms.
No, I will not go away that easy because you don't like what I have to say. It doesn't work that way. You want others opinions to be heard but only if you agree with the message. I don't care what you will tolerate or not. JMHO.

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by SEATJERKER ...Hawk,...
...I'm sure your as hardline as the rest of us in your beliefs, and convictions,...
... however your reluctence to acknowledge that Veteran's that "haven't been in ""combat"" don't """rate""" , don't cut it,...
...I'm a Veteran, been in ""hand to hand" with an "armed domestic combatent", while unarmed, and although never serving in a """combat zone" , and suffer from PTSD,...
...So as with what you have stated goes along with Non Veteran's, and Non Combat Vet's don't have a right to have true feelings, and don't deserve any considerations what so ever,...
...Your misalligment of knowledge leads me to believe that you should open your mind, and see the many facets of the worlds truths other than a constricted view you have, ""no slam" , I respect you as any other, and Sis has been there for so many, for so long, myself included in the middle of the night when things have gone haywire, she is an angel of mercy, and rightly deserving,...
...acceptence beyond reproach, she is an unchallenged Sister with only the best intentions in mind for any veteran, and/or spouse, undaunted in her quest, and have been a mainstay here, and elsewhere for a good ? 5 years ?,...
..."the mission" folks, "the mission",...
..."keep movin",...
...

You are spreading a misconception that I have said you have to have been in combat to be a Veteran. I did not say any such thing. I defined Veteran and Combat in my own words, I did not combine the two nor say one inflected on the other. I don't know how to make this any clearer for those who have mis read my post or twisted it around and confused what I have said.
I am a Veteran, having served in the Navy for eight years and have been Honorably Discharge. It is a title I earned.
I too suffer with PTSD.
My mind is well opened, there are no constraints on my way of thinking.
You want to defend "Sis" go right ahead, all I've said and will continue to say is that if you did not serve in the military I don't consider you a Veteran. Combat is in my opinion those in the armed forces who have engaged the enemy in one way or an other.

[Arrow]

Curtis...

Thank you and right backat ya...

Remember? I was at my bro's housewhen some dude with a New York accent woke me up out of a dead sleep (and I do mean dead) with a call on my cell phone "Get your a$$ up out of that bed girl" your version of"The LT said "Keep Movin'" " I'm still laughin' about it to this day.

You& Frankkept me movin'during that timeby not allowing me to sit around feelin' sorry for myself contemplating my belly button.

Arrow>>>>>>>>>

[Arrow]

"Always keep your weapons and clothes where you can find them in the dark" -Robert Heinlein-

Arrow>>>>>>>>

[DMZ-LT]

I haven't said this enough. Thank You. Your tag line " This is a day that the Lord has made and I will rejoyce and be glad in it " Has helped me a lot the last several days and many times in the past. Sorta what Ron said. Y'all play well with the others now !

SparrowHawk-

I am a veteran.Due to circumstances beyond my control,I am also a combat vet.Far as I'm concerned Sis is as much a veteran as anyone I've ever met.She has made veterans and their issues a (if not THE)major focus of her life for an awful lot of years.All Americans have a right to express an opinion.Above and beyond that,she has EARNED a right to her opinions through her efforts and support well beyond the effort the average American(includeing many of those who have spent time in the Service)are willing to put into it.

This whole side issue of the defination of veteran got started when you stated that you were "shocked" that a non-veteran would be critical of the opinions of some vets.For the life of me I can't figure out why that would "shock" you.Surely you don't think that all vets share the same opinions all the time.Please explain.

Sis has an awful lot of knowledge about vets. and their issues.We do not always come down on the same fence on every issue.When we don't I take a second and sometimes a third look at my thoughts on the matter before remaining in opposition.This seems wise to me.

[SEATJERKER]

...Your definition, and mine, and others will differ,...

...To me, being a Veteran is one "who has served", not nesc served in the military, but served in any capasity in a positive manner towards the military as well, and known for it,...

...A Veteran of military issues personally,

...be well,...

...

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by Doc.2/47 SparrowHawk-
I am a veteran.Due to circumstances beyond my control,I am also a combat vet.Far as I'm concerned Sis is as much a veteran as anyone I've ever met.She has made veterans and their issues a (if not THE)major focus of her life for an awful lot of years.All Americans have a right to express an opinion.Above and beyond that,she has EARNED a right to her opinions through her efforts and support well beyond the effort the average American(includeing many of those who have spent time in the Service)are willing to put into it.
This whole side issue of the defination of veteran got started when you stated that you were "shocked" that a non-veteran would be critical of the opinions of some vets.For the life of me I can't figure out why that would "shock" you.Surely you don't think that all vets share the same opinions all the time.Please explain.
Sis has an awful lot of knowledge about vets. and their issues.We do not always come down on the same fence on every issue.When we don't I take a second and sometimes a third look at my thoughts on the matter before remaining in opposition.This seems wise to me.

This is the quote I was referring to "I'm stunned at people on a military history site that fancy themselves history buffs depending on such for their source of information." I stated in my answer the following "I'm stunned to find a non-vet criticizing Vets, some who have gone through combat! (Not that you don't have every right to do so.) We as former Military have been taught to hate the enemy, most of us were not untaught. Some of us hate every aspect of the enemy and show no mercy at all. It is a mind set that is deeply ingrain. For me it was Iran and it's people." I was using her own words to try and make a point that this whole situation is "stunning."
It's a wrongful assumption that some of us are history buffs. Depending on what for my information? The three or four newspapers I read everyday, the Radio and Television reports I've heard. The writer assumed we base our opinions on just what was posted here?
You seem to think or at least have expressed I implied that "Sis" can not air her opinion. One more time, I didn't say she couldn't do this. Please re-read where I have quoted myself above, since it seems you are under the wrong impression.
I am not impressed that you state what and why this person is a Veteran in your eyes. She is not in mine and will not be. While she may have done more for Vets than the average America it still does not make her a Vet. and will never make her a Vet.
There are plenty of folks who fly the Flag, thank Vets. when they see them, support our efforts at Veterans affairs. Everyone who buys a Poppy, everyone who shows up at a parade, everyone who stands at a local monument on Memorial or Veterans day. While supporting Vets, some of them are not Vets. Volunteering time at a VA hospital does not make you a Vet. I can put on a Doctors smock or scrubs, doesn't make me a Dr. I can hold a paint brush in my hand, doesn't make me an artist. I can fly in a plane, doesn't make me a pilot. I can change a tire on my car, doesn't make me a race car driver. I can post on Patriot Files, doesn't make me a Veteran.
Now that this post has managed to get so off topic and turned into a Smash the Sparrow Hawk affair, please continue to do so at your own risk. I'm sorry I don't have any fitting little pictures to post along with this. I've also run out of stupid little come backs to post at the bottom of my posts too. I'll work on finding some of each.

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by SEATJERKER ...Your definition, and mine, and others will differ,...
...To me, being a Veteran is one "who has served", not nesc served in the military, but served in any capasity in a positive manner towards the military as well, and known for it,...
...A Veteran of military issues personally,
...be well,...
...

Hey Jerker,
I don't worry about to much. I certainly don't worry about faceless persons on the net. This is a great place (the net) to puff up ones feathers and talk trash. Oh, and before I am mis quoted again, that's a two way street.
I don't agree with the loose defining of Veterans that yourself and others have used here. My opinion nothing else. I understand the misuse of the word. One can be a Veteran of the police force or fire department, both para-military type organizations. One can be a Veteran stall cleaner if they have done it "in a positive manner" on a military post or base.
I'm still not buying it.
Take care, may you greet the sun rise of a new day with a smile.

Wasn't trying to "impress" you with my thoughts concerning the definition of veteran.Can't say that I was especially impressed with your definition either.Point is that both are personal opinions.