Deja Vu

[BLUEHAWK]

What in the world does this last post have to do with the thread :cd:

[urbsdad6]

From Scout:

"And can you list any freedoms you've allegedly lost as a result of the terrorists's attacks on this country? Or is this just more of your paranoia showing? Oh my, so they search your baggage better at the airport? That's a loss of freedom?"




Sorry about that, just trying to give an example of the nature of the beast and the application of the Patriot Acts. As I keep pointing out, just because it hasn't affected you or me personally doesn't mean it hasn't affected others and has the same potential to do so to us. Just because the laws are on the books doesn't make it OK. It seems that nobody believes there is anything wrong with trading freedom for security and the link is a blatant case of possibly good intentions in order to protect us against drug dealers used to put a very ill man into jail for no crime except illness? Those in charge can twist the laws to fit their desires. I think we can expect to see this more and more. Misapplication of laws in order to stop the terrorism. Sorry for the confusion.

Doc Urb

[BLUEHAWK]

Doc,

We are NOT "trading freedom for security."

That assertion is pure propaganda not supported by any facts. Not a single one of my liberties has been infringed in any way by the Patriot Act.

Also, friends here sometimes tolerantly describe me as the "peacemaker", because I seek common ground and a way to us working together when our differences are stark, up to a point.

I don't know your age, but if you lived through the Vietnam era in any significant sense, then you might understand why some of us here feel that we have heard the kinds of assertions you often make on this site before.

Originally posted by urbsdad6 From Scout:

"And can you list any freedoms you've allegedly lost as a result of the terrorists's attacks on this country? Or is this just more of your paranoia showing? Oh my, so they search your baggage better at the airport? That's a loss of freedom?"




Sorry about that, just trying to give an example of the nature of the beast and the application of the Patriot Acts. As I keep pointing out, just because it hasn't affected you or me personally doesn't mean it hasn't affected others and has the same potential to do so to us. Just because the laws are on the books doesn't make it OK. It seems that nobody believes there is anything wrong with trading freedom for security and the link is a blatant case of possibly good intentions in order to protect us against drug dealers used to put a very ill man into jail for no crime except illness? Those in charge can twist the laws to fit their desires. I think we can expect to see this more and more. Misapplication of laws in order to stop the terrorism. Sorry for the confusion.

Doc Urb

[BLUEHAWK]

Originally posted by colmurph I'm going to bow out of this forum and probably won't be back. Every time I read the crap that is posted here my blood pressure skyrockets. I hope that I'm right in my belief that this site is monitored by some Government Agency who can track down IP addresses and place surveillalnce on a few folks who bear watching. I expect that sooner than later we will be reading about Urbsdad6 and others like him being arrested for plotting the overthrow of the US Government. I spent most of my adult life in uniform, protecting the rights of folks like this to trash the US with their "Freedom of Speech". In my opinion the trash this guy talks is like shouting "Fire" in a crowded movie theater. This treasonous talk is not protected by "Freedom of Speech".

I hope you will reconsider, Murph.

I, for one, very much value your insights... and agree with much of what you said there.

[urbsdad6]

Correct me if I'm wrong Blue, but as far as you are concerned it's quite alright to put a man with a chronic and debilitating disease in prison for 25 years because he uses prescribed pain medication, just as long as it doesn't effect you? And Murph, it's OK for the Government to spy on us and remove those whose opinion doesn't agree with the party line because they are treasonous misfits? (Now that's Communism at it's best, just ask paranoiod Joe Stalin or Mao) Folks here consistantly try to label me talk as a leftist. Seems to me that based on your previous statements, you are pushing the bleeding edge of leftism with talk like that. In fact I will repeat, you don't know the left from the right because it doesn't exist. Can you prove that the laws aren't already in place that violate the Constitution and Bill of Rights? Do you believe that it's OK to have them in place as long as you aren't affected? Can you prove that Bush at present doesn't have Dictatorial powers within his grasp? Maybe you folks should review this:

http://tvnewslies.org/html/stop_igno...11___pnac.html


Doc Urb

[Seascamp]

'put a man with a chronic and debilitating disease in prison for 25 years because he uses prescribed pain medication'

Dare I ask that you substantiate this claim? What?s the rest of the story? Twenty five years equals some kind of serious felony crime that is well beyond drug use. What State? Florida maybe?

Scamp

[BLUEHAWK]

Originally posted by urbsdad6 Correct me if I'm wrong Blue, but as far as you are concerned it's quite alright to put a man with a chronic and debilitating disease in prison for 25 years because he uses prescribed pain medication, just as long as it doesn't effect you? And Murph, it's OK for the Government to spy on us and remove those whose opinion doesn't agree with the party line because they are treasonous misfits? (Now that's Communism at it's best, just ask paranoiod Joe Stalin or Mao) Folks here consistantly try to label me talk as a leftist. Seems to me that based on your previous statements, you are pushing the bleeding edge of leftism with talk like that. In fact I will repeat, you don't know the left from the right because it doesn't exist. Can you prove that the laws aren't already in place that violate the Constitution and Bill of Rights? Do you believe that it's OK to have them in place as long as you aren't affected? Can you prove that Bush at present doesn't have Dictatorial powers within his grasp? Maybe you folks should review this:

http://tvnewslies.org/html/stop_igno...11___pnac.html


Doc Urb

- No, I wouldn't say that, Doc. I thought this thread was about "Deja Vu"...

I do think some of our anti-drugs laws are about as counter-productive as is possible to be, but like Scamp said, 25 years for medicinal use suggests something else going on... like maybe a 3-strikes deal or intent to sell or something?

- We don't "label you as a leftist" so much as you constantly identify with their causes and use their rhetoric!

- IS the government spying on us? Somehow that doesn't bother me at this point in time. I have not GOT anything to hide from our government here at home that they'd be interested in seeing... and I am mighty grateful to them for paying as much attention as possible to all the criminals out there who are out to kill us! I want 'em to check all the bags and use all the cameras to catch the bad guys.

- I cannot PROVE that a President does NOT have "dictatorial powers", but our Constitution forbids it. we have a Congress and Judiciary which would disapprove of it, and we have roughly 26,000,000 well-armed Vets out here who'd be inclined to become mighty cranky if a President tried that!

Why do you keep assaulting us with all this anti stuff stuff, Doc?

Yes, America has some problems. We're all workin' on those, eh?

Have you got any unresolved ones?

What gives here, man?

- You speak of "pushing the bleeding edge of leftism..." above. What do you imagine the Left is doing to radicalize and further entrench the Right by such nonsense talk as that!

By your own logic, assuming any kind of identifiable message being carried by either side, it would appear that the "Left" is doing everything in its power to undermine our national effort, and the "Right" is doing everything in its power to preserve and protect it!

Every negative thing written and said in public by the "Left" is being transmitted to the enemy as evidence of our indecisiveness!

Knock it off!

Can you imagine the hysterical laughter they project among themselves when they read about how some of our people actually believe there was a "conspiracy" by our own government on 9/11 to blow up the WTC!

[Seascamp]

Back to d?j? vu, Blue. The high acquired art form in Vietnam was to keep the perps with guns focused, a duckin and a runnin and in deep shit. All this had to be done whilst the Liberals, anarchists and that whole mob was pissing in our back pocket. Really, we got quite good at it. Kind of like the old saw, ?When hunting rabbits in tiger country, best to watch out for the tigers, on the other hand, when hunting tigers the rabbits don?t matter? and that?s exactly how it worked. It terms of legacy, I believe our Troops and Marines know about fighting the tigers and about rabbits pissing in their back pockets. That is exactly why senior NCO?s were invented and they know things, a lot of things and all that is to be known about rabbits and tigers, plus some.

Scamp

[BLUEHAWK]

Originally posted by Seascamp Back to d?j? vu, Blue. The high acquired art form in Vietnam was to keep the perps with guns focused, a duckin and a runnin and in deep shit. All this had to be done whilst the Liberals, anarchists and that whole mob was pissing in our back pocket. Really, we got quite good at it. Kind of like the old saw, ?When hunting rabbits in tiger country, best to watch out for the tigers, on the other hand, when hunting tigers the rabbits don?t matter? and that?s exactly how it worked. It terms of legacy, I believe our Troops and Marines know about fighting the tigers and about rabbits pissing in their back pockets. That is exactly why senior NCO?s were invented and they know things, a lot of things and all that is to be known about rabbits and tigers, plus some.

Scamp

I am truly starting to become exceedingly pissed off about it, Scamp.

They do need to watch out for the quiet guys.

Damn them... damn them, to behave thataway at such a time as this is.

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK

I hope you will reconsider, Murph.

I, for one, very much value your insights ... and agree with much of what you said there.

He adds about as much 'VALUE' to any conversation or arguement as a TEN FOOT PILE of MONKEY $HIT!

Good riddance!