How John Kerry Helped Hanoi Jane During JFK's Vietnam War! Kerry Call Viet Vets' "Baby killers" JFK - His Hero - Started The War!

>Goodness. Were things were actually so simple, and all that we needed to do
>was mass our forces and drive on in our righteousness, fervently against the
>commie capitals? How could we have missed anything so obvious?

- LMAO

Yeah! it is just that simple. Are you comfortable with Saddam Hussein's current
situation? Or would you prefer endless debate and no resolution?

I'm just an old grunt, Ted. My preference then (as it is now) is to lock'n load
and go after the murdering commies/tyrants.

>Or are you simply a fucking idiot?
>

Many of my non-veteran acquaintences hold the same view. They are sure their
freedom is guarenteed and why would anyone risk so much and for what.

And Please... I beg to differ on being called a "fucking idiot", I'm much more
comfortable with "stupid motherfucker".

- LMAO

Greg

>Subject: Re: How John Kerry Helped Hanoi Jane During JFK's Vietnam War!
>Kerry Call Viet Vets' "Baby killers" JFK -
>From: dastard@my-deja.com (Ellis Dees)
>Date: 1/23/2004 8:53 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <15f31141.0401230653.5094ba25@posting.google.com>
>
>Kennedy was planning to pull all US troops out of Vietnam before he
>was killed:
>
>http://www.bostonreview.net/BR28.5/galbraith.html
>
>

I suggest that you make a good study of NSAM 263 and the McNamara Taylor report
that goes with it before you make such a bold statement.

I thought you might be interested in this from Galbraith.

From: Ted Gittinger (tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com)Subject: JFK and Vietnam

View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfkDate: 2004-01-06 1506 PST

Here is Jamie Galbreath's rejoinder. Your case is weakening, Aguilar.
Dissolving, almost.
__________________________________________________ ______
Next there is the speculative question, what would JFK have done
had he not been killed? I do not know. Nor does anyone else. I am
prepared to believe -- since Kennedy himself raises the possibility on
tape -- that the withdrawal might have taken longer than the plan. Much
can happen, and much did, in two years' time. The point of my article is only
to establish that there was a "decision" in the precise sense of that term. The
policy of the United States on October 5, 1963 was to complete a withdrawal of
the training mission from Vietnam by the end of 1965, whether "victory" -- a
most nebulous term in this context -- had been achieved or not.

Finally, I agree with David Kaiser that Vietnam was a secondary
issue in late 1963. The importance of the decision to withdraw lies first in
the fact that, had it been implemented, then the later tragedy would not have
occurred. Second, it helps historians better to understand Kennedy's larger
strategic purposes. And, it is a useful case study in the difficulty of
establishing the exact contours of history when a contrary view is very firmly
entrenched.

James Galbraith
University of Texas

Admin wrote:
>
> "Lone Haranguer" wrote in message
> news:burh8i$ldrev$1@ID-192430.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Thom wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 05:02:46 GMT, Richard Rongstad
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>"unknown" the lumpenproletariat tool of the politburo wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>>>>.
> > >>>
> > >>>Meanwhile Kerry was pissing on his Vietnam buddies while fawning over
> > >>>his hero JFK who started the Vietnam War.
> > >
> > >
> > > Nope, big lie just like WOMD. Ike and Nixon started the Viet Nam War
> > > in the 50's. I suggest you check your bible and see how naughty you
> > > are for lieing.
> >
> > Advisers were already there under Truman and we were helping the French.
> > Dummy.
>
> I wonder if it is prudent to remind everyone about the South East Aisian
> Treaty Organization that the US was signatory to. Australia was on it as
> well, so was Korea, and many others. You will find that many of us served
> side by side regardless of Nationality. SEATO was what got us in there and
> that was done under Truman. SEATO was directly equivelant to NATO for the
> exact same reasons. SEATO is no more these days. Stalin won that round.


Knowing that the United Nations likes to take credit for management of
all the world's major treaties, I always figured that it was membership
in the U.N. that got the U.S. into Viet Nam by proxy, namely, SEATO.

arnold_wolfcastle_gupta@yahoo.co.in (Arnold Wolfcaste) wrote in message news:<76bdb568.0401201219.483a67da@posting.google.com>...
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...0/131219.shtml
>
> Looks like Kerry was spitting on Vietnam Vets during JFK's Vietnam War
> and he always talks about JFK - the guy who started the Vietnam War.
>
> Denouncing America with ?Hanoi' Jane: Although Wesley Clark and others
> have attacked former front-runner Howard Dean as a draft-dodging ski
> bum, Kerry is far more complex than the simple war hero he portrays
> himself as.
> He became a celebrated organizer for one of America's most extreme
> appeasement groups, Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He consorted
> with the likes of "Hanoi" Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark, Lyndon
> Johnson's radical former attorney general.
>
> He attended a seminar bankrolled by Fonda in Detroit in February 1971.
> Watching 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testify at a Howard
> Johnson's about atrocities allegedly committed by U.S. forces, the man
> who would be president later said he found the accounts shocking and
> irrefutable.
>
> Dubbed "The Winter Soldier Investigation," the protest attracted
> minimal media attention, according to the Los Angeles Times, because
> Fonda insisted it be held in the remote Michigan city rather than the
> less "authentic" Washington, D.C.
>
>
> Those evil American soldiers: Testifying before the Senate Foreign
> Relations Committee on April 23, 1971, Kerry claimed that U.S.
> soldiers had "raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from
> portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off
> limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages,
> shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally
> ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam."
>
> ?We are not the best': In his testimony, Kerry claimed there was no
> communist threat and said: "In 1970 at West Point Vice President Agnew
> said ?some glamorize the criminal misfits of society while our best
> men die in Asian rice paddies to preserve the freedom which most of
> those misfits abuse,' and this was used as a rallying point for our
> effort in Vietnam. But for us, as boys in Asia whom the country was
> supposed to support, his statement is a terrible distortion from which
> we can only draw a very deep sense of revulsion, and hence the anger
> of some of the men who are here in Washington today. It is a
> distortion because we in no way consider ourselves the best men of
> this country ?."
> U.S. Veteran Dispatch noted in 1996: "Kerry's testimony, it should be
> noted, occurred while some of his fellow Vietnam veterans were known
> by the world to be enduring terrible suffering as prisoners of war in
> North Vietnamese prisons. Kerry was a supporter of the ?People's Peace
> Treaty,'" a supposed ?people's' declaration to end the war, reportedly
> drawn up in communist East Germany. It included nine points, all of
> which were taken from Viet Cong peace proposals at the Paris peace
> talks as conditions for ending the war."
>
>
> Throw as I say, not as I do: On that same day he led members of VVAW
> in a protest during which they threw their medals and ribbons over a
> fence in front of the U.S. Capitol.
> Kerry later admitted the medals he threw were not his. To this day
> they hang on the wall of his office.
>
>
> Communist stooge: The communist Daily World delightedly published
> photos of him speaking to demonstrators and boasted that the marchers
> displayed a banner depicting a portrait of Communist Party leader
> Angela Davis, on record stating, "I am dedicated to the overthrow of
> your system of government and your society," the New American recalled
> in May 2003.
> "By frequently participating in VVAW's demonstrations, Kerry found
> himself marching alongside what the Boston Herald Traveler identified
> as ?revolutionary Communists.' While noting that known Reds had openly
> organized these events, the December 12, 1971 Herald Traveler reported
> the presence of an ?abundance of Vietcong flags, clenched fists raised
> in the air, and placards plainly bearing legends in support of China,
> Cuba, the USSR, North Korea and the Hanoi government.'"
>
> Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry says: "As a national leader of
> VVAW, Kerry campaigned against the effort of the United States to
> contain the spread of Communism. He used the blood of servicemen still
> in the field for his own political advancement by claiming that their
> blood was being shed unnecessarily or in vain.
>
> "Under Kerry's leadership, VVAW members mocked the uniform of United
> States soldiers by wearing tattered fatigues marked with pro-communist
> graffiti. They dishonored America by marching in demonstrations under
> the flag of the Viet Cong enemy."
>
> Sen. John McCain revealed that his North Vietnamese captors had used
> reports of Kerry-led protests to taunt him and his fellow prisoners.
> Retired General George S. Patton III angrily noted that Kerry's
> actions had "given aid and comfort to the enemy."
>
> In recent years when Kerry has exploited the Vietnam Veterans Memorial
> for photo opportunities on Veterans Day, some veterans, still outraged
> by his betrayal, have turned their backs on him.
>
>
> The book he doesn't want you to see: When Kerry ran for election to
> the U.S. House of Representative in 1972, "he found it necessary to
> suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book,
> The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted
> several unkempt youths crudely handling an American flag to mock the
> famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima," according to Vietnam
> Veterans Against John Kerry.
> "Suddenly, copies of the book became unavailable and even disappeared
> from libraries. But the Lowell (Mass.) Sun said of the type of person
> shown on its cover: ?These people spit on the flag, they burn the
> flag, they carry the flag upside down, [and] they all but wipe their
> noses with it in their efforts to show their contempt for everything
> it still stands for,'" the New American reported.
>
> Even today it is hard to find this infamous photo and book.
>
>
> Sleeping with the enemy: Kerry's fondness for Vietnam's communist
> dictatorship, one of the most oppressive in the world, continues.
> As chairman of the Select Senate Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, created
> in 1991 to investigate reports that U.S. prisoners of war and soldiers
> designated missing in action were still alive in Vietnam, Kerry
> badgered the panel into voting that no American servicemen remained in
> Vietnam.
>
> "[N]o one in the United States Senate pushed harder to bury the
> POW/MIA issue, the last obstacle preventing normalization of relations
> with Hanoi, than John Forbes Kerry," noted U.S. Veteran Dispatch.
>
> "But Kerry's participation in the Committee became controversial in
> December 1992," reported the nonpartisan Center for Public Integrity,
> "when Hanoi announced that it had awarded Colliers International, a
> Boston-based real estate company, an exclusive deal to develop its
> commercial real estate potentially worth billions. Stuart Forbes, the
> CEO of Colliers, is Kerry's cousin."
>
> The "odd coincidence," according to FrontPageMagazine.com, involved a
> deal worth $905 million.
>
> Jeff Jacoby, the token conservative columnist at the Boston Globe,
> notes that Kerry continues his apologia for Vietnam's never-ending
> atrocities. "Far from taking the lead on the Vietnam Human Rights
> Bill, he has prevented it from coming to a vote. He claims that making
> an issue of Hanoi's repression would be counterproductive."
>
>
> Kerry is also a fan of China's communist dictatorship. "On May 19,
> 1994, five years after Tiananmen Square, Kerry spoke on the Senate
> floor against linking China's Most Favored Nation trade status to its
> human rights record," Slate reported.
>
> Kerry said: "China is the strongest military power in Asia. We need
> China's cooperation. We cannot afford to adopt a cold-war kind of
> policy that merely excludes and pushes China away." Limiting China's
> MFN status "would make us a bit player in a production of enormous
> proportions. We possess no stick, including MFN, which can force China
> to embrace internationally recognized human rights and freedoms."
>
>
> More extreme than Hillary and Kucinich: Among the White House
> wannabes, long-shot Rep. Dennis Kucinich has the reputation of holding
> the most left-wing congressional voting record. In fact, this "honor"
> goes to Kerry.
> According to American Conservative Union, Kerry has a lifetime rating
> of 6 percent, compared to 13 for the demolished Rep. Dick Gephardt, 14
> for Sen. John Edwards, 15 for Kucinich and 19 for Sen. Joe Lieberman.
>
> Sens. Hillary Clinton and Tom Daschle score 13 percent. Only the likes
> of Sens. Teddy Kennedy and Barbara Boxer have more left-wing records
> than Kerry. In contrast, Sen. John Breaux, one of the upper chamber's
> few remaining moderate Democrats, has a 46.
>
>
>
> Drive as I say, not as I do: Like Al Gore and other self-described
> environmentalists, Kerry has a radical agenda that would devastate the
> U.S. economy in favor of the likes of communist China, yet he enjoys
> the gas-guzzling modern conveniences that greens denounce. Kerry, a
> delegate to the environment-destroying Earth Summit in 1992 (where he
> met his future wife, left-wing activist Teresa Heinz, the
> multimillionaire widow of GOP Sen. John Heinz), the Kyoto climate
> talks in 1997 and the Hague Conference of the U.N. Framework
> Convention on Climate Change in 2000, has attacked President Bush for
> withdrawing from the anti-U.S. Kyoto Protocol. This treaty, which
> then-President Bill Clinton had signed, would impose severe
> restrictions on the United States but not Third World polluters that
> already enjoy huge trade surpluses with the U.S.
> However, although Kerry spouts the party line on anti-U.S. ecopolicy,
> he doesn't like to practice what he preaches. NewsMax.com humiliated
> him in April 2002 by publishing photos of him attending an
> anti-energy-independence rally and then heading back to his SUV, the
> symbol of all that is evil to greens.
>
>
> Bone to pick: Bush-hating conspiracy theorists find it alarming that
> the president, like his father, was a member of the secretive Skull
> and Bones society at Yale University. Another alum of this club: John
> Kerry.
>
> Waffling on Iraq: Kerry has the tough job of wooing Howard Dean's
> anti-war Democrats despite his support of the war in Iraq. His
> favorite tactic, claiming the president outfoxed him, doesn't hold up
> to scrutiny.
> On "Meet the Press" in late August, Tim Russert played a tape of Kerry
> addressing the Senate in October 2002 with a hard-line speech
> declaring Iraq "capable of quickly producing weaponizing" of
> biological weapons that could be delivered against "the United States
> itself."
>
> Kerry insisted: "That is exactly the point I'm making. We were given
> this information by our intelligence community."
>
> However, as columnist Robert Novak noted, "as a senator, Kerry had
> access to the National Intelligence Estimate that was skeptical of
> Iraqi capability. Being tricky may no longer be as effective
> politically as it once was."
>
> No doubt Dean, Lieberman, Clark and other rivals will now use these
> and other details to do to Kerry what the Democrats did to Dean.

http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/2851.html

LBJ got very rich off Vietnam and threw the Kennedy's some money after
he cut JFK out of the deal. Both of them also got rich off NASA too.

Nixon was practically broke when he left the White House.

Roundup: Media's Take on the News
Brown & Root: A Company with a History


John Burnett, reporting for NPR about the history of Kellogg, Brown &
Root, the construction company at the center of controversy in Iraq
(Dec. 24, 2003):

I'm standing here below Mansfield Dam, 12 miles west of Austin in the
Texas hill country. This massive concrete structure holds back 370
billion gallons of water above the Colorado River . The dam was
constructed by the Brown brothers, Herman and George, between 1937 and
1941. It is the breakout project that transformed them from road
builders into superbuilders, and it's emblematic of the daring jobs on
which their company built its reputation. And the dam would not have
been possible without the assistance of a young, ambitious Texas
congressman named Lyndon Johnson.

Working inside Congress, LBJ helped get the dam legalized, authorized
and enlarged. In so doing, he taught the Browns the crucial value of
federal connections, a lesson the company has carried forward through
the decades.

Is there a historical continuum between Brown & Root's cultivation of
people in power from Lyndon Johnson to Dick Cheney?

Mr. JOE PRATT ( Historian/Author): I would say there is a historical
continuum from the first day Herman Brown entered construction to what
we're seeing in Iraq today, and that continuum is public sector
contracting is a tricky business, and personal contacts are a very
important part of it.

BURNETT: That's Joe Pratt, a historian at the University of Houston
who has co-written a biography of the Brown brothers. Their lifelong
friendship with LBJ was based on mutual affection and pragmatism. They
donated millions of dollars to his political campaigns over the years,
and won it all back and more in lucrative government construction
projects. Robert Caro wrote in his first volume on Johnson, "The Path
to Power," 'Brown & Root became an industrial colossus thanks to
Lyndon Johnson.'

(Soundbite of phone conversation)

President LYNDON JOHNSON: Hi, George. How are you?

Mr. GEORGE BROWN: Pretty good.

Pres. JOHNSON: I just wanted to check in with you.

Mr. BROWN: Well, I'm glad to hear you, my friend.

Pres. JOHNSON: I was kind...

BURNETT: This is an excerpt from a phone conversation between
President Johnson in the Oval Office and George Brown at his office in
Houston . Their friendship had already begun to cause them problems
when they spoke here on Valentine's Day 1964. They discussed the
controversy that had erupted over two huge construction projects the
government had awarded to Brown & Root, NASA's Manned Space Center
outside of Houston , later renamed the Johnson Space Center , and a
massive never-completed scientific project to drill down to the
Earth's mantle, known as Project Moho.

(Soundbite of phone conversation)

Pres. JOHNSON: Did you see the Mark Shaw's column on Brown and Johnson
on NASA and Moho?

Mr. BROWN: NASA and Moho--Johnson...

Pres. JOHNSON: Said you had a 500 million one on NASA.

Mr. BROWN: Yeah. (Laughs) I just told him I never had talked to you
about NASA or Moho neither. Never had been mentioned to me. I didn't
know what Moho was. And I never talked to anybody, never heard of it,
but that didn't make any difference. Went ahead and printed it anyway.

BURNETT: At the time there was wide suspicion among newspaper
columnists and the Republican minority in Congress that Brown & Root's
contributions to Johnson earned it the inside track on
multimillion-dollar contracts.

The sharpest criticism would come from its work in Vietnam . Brown &
Root was part of a consortium of four big construction companies known
as RMK-BRJ. They were contracted by the Navy to build ports,
airfields, bases, ammunition depots and hospitals in South Vietnam .
It was the first time the US military had assigned private contractors
on a large scale to do work usually performed by combat engineers and
Navy Seabees. Brown & Root's portion of the contract would be worth
$380 million.

Dan Briody is a Connecticut-based author who's writing a book about
Halliburton.

Mr. DAN BRIODY (Author): While they were in Vietnam , you know, the
situation is not unlike it is in Iraq right now. There was a lot of
looting and problems with keeping equipment in their hands, and also
the consortium was criticized for overspending and overstaffing, much
like it has been criticized in Bosnia and is being criticized right
now by Henry Waxman.

BURNETT: By 1967, the General Accounting Office faulted the Vietnam
builders, as they were called, for massive accounting lapses and
allowing thefts of materials. The grunts' nickname for the company,
Burn & Loot, seemed to ring true. Congressional critics were howling
for investigations into cost overruns and alleged political payoffs.
Out in the streets, anti-war protesters railed against Brown & Root as
the embodiment of what President Dwight Eisenhower had called the
military-industrial complex.

James Carter is a doctoral student in history at the University of
Houston who has been researching nation-building in South Vietnam
during the 1950s and '60s.

Mr. JAMES CARTER (University of Houston): You could draw the parallel
line to Iraq that the anti-war movement has picked up on immediately
the way contracts are let, and the enormous sums of money that are
being given away to Halliburton, Kellogg Brown & Root, in order to
rebuild Iraqi infrastructure when Brown & Root and others, Morrison,
Knudson and Raymond--they were given large sums of money in the 1960s
to rebuild southern Vietnam infrastructure which had been destroyed by
years of war and neglect. The parallels are just endless.

(Soundbite of drumming)

BURNETT: Last spring, a new generation of anti-war protesters, such as
this group in Austin , rediscovered Brown & Root, which is now called
Kellogg Brown & Root.

(Soundbite of protest)

Unidentified Man #1: And it's one, two, three. What are we fighting
for?

Unidentified Man #2: Iraq .

Unidentified Man #1: Don't ask me, I don't give a damn. The next
stop's Iraq again.

Unidentified Man #2: That's right.

Unidentified Man #1: And it's five, six, seven...

BURNETT: One of the most striking echoes of history is the
reappearance of Donald Rumsfeld. As Defense secretary, today's he's a
staunch supporter of reconstruction contracts in Iraq awarded to KBR.
In August 1966, as a young Republican congressman from Illinois ,
Rumsfeld stood up in Congress and excoriated the Johnson
administration for the stench of cronyism. Rumsfeld's speech in the
congressional record could easily have come from the current
Halliburton critic, Congressman Henry Waxman, the California Democrat.
Again, James Carter.

Mr. CARTER: Donald Rumsfeld was overtly critical of Johnson's handling
of the war. And I'll read a short passage from this. Quote, "Why this
huge contract has not been and is not now being adequately audited is
beyond me. The potential for waste and profiteering under such a
contract is substantial," unquote.

BURNETT: The parallels extend even to the construction of detention
facilities. In the '60s protesters denounced Brown & Root for building
detention cells for the US military in South Vietnam to hold Viet Cong
prisoners. As historian Joe Pratt explains, they came to be derisively
called tiger cages.

Mr. PRATT: They were very small. They were very--they looked inhumane
and the protests centered on the profits that Brown & Root and other
companies made in building them.

BURNETT: And today Brown & Root has constructed the detention facility
in Guantanamo for suspected terrorists.

Mr. PRATT: Yeah. It looks a little less inhumane than the tiger cages,
so they might have learned a lesson from the Vietnam War experience
there.

BURNETT: Brown & Root learned some other lessons as well. Hang tough,
keep the client happy, do good work and massage the public relations.
The criticism will blow over. The presidents and their parties will
come and go, but Brown & Root outlasts them all.

In news:76bdb568.0401231349.5004af15@posting.google.c om,
Arnold Wolfcaste radiated into
the WorldWideWait:
> arnold_wolfcastle_gupta@yahoo.co.in (Arnold Wolfcaste) wrote in
> message news:<76bdb568.0401201219.483a67da@posting.google.com>...

It's hard to take anyone seriously who can't remember how to spell his
own name AND replies to himself in public.

Senator John Kerry, because of his Vietnam anti-war activities as
described in the original post, is "Number 10" in my opinion (which means
in Vietnam War Jargon that he the worst type of person.)
Mr. C.V. Compton Shaw;U.S. Army;4th Inf. Div.;2/8th Inf.;RVN 1969-1970

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:09:39 -0600, Charlie Wolf
wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:53:57 GMT, thomandpam@yahoo.com.au (Thom)
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 05:02:46 GMT, Richard Rongstad
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"unknown" the lumpenproletariat tool of the politburo wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>.
>>>> Meanwhile Kerry was pissing on his Vietnam buddies while fawning over
>>>> his hero JFK who started the Vietnam War.
>>
>>Nope, big lie just like WOMD. Ike and Nixon started the Viet Nam War
>>in the 50's. I suggest you check your bible and see how naughty you
>>are for lieing.
>Speaking of lying - you need to re-check your facts. JFK escalated
>the involvement in Vietnam from a few hundred advisors,

so you admit that Ike and Nixon had already started things!!! By the
way in your dicourse of dishonesty you forgot to mention the thousands
of other types we had in there ranging from the CIA to the US Public
Health Service....including some relitives of mine. You also forgot
to mention that we were already up to our ears in the Loas/Pathet Loa
thing too. You also forgot to mention that we had bases (in the 50's)
in Thailand (6 of them I believe).

>to tens of
>thousands of troops. I'd call that starting a war.

I call refusing to hold elections and forcing the north to start a
conflict "Starting a war". If the elections had been held, 3000000
more Viets would be alive and 58,000 more americans would be alive
that are not today. And Ho would have been elected president which is
why they did it, to proect their puppet Diem. And of course this
happened in October 1955, when Ngo Dinh Diem proclaimed the Republic
of Viet Nam with himself as PREZ in violation of the agreements on
Viet Nam.

>And one other
>thing - I don't necessarily disagree with JFK on this. Had the
>anti-war folks - guys like Kerry and Jane Fonda - kept their nose out
>of it, we would have won it quickly.

Excuse me but your totally wrong. Wrong. NO ONE could have won that
war. Those people had been fighting for 300 years!!! There was even
a small civil war of sorts beween the Nguyen Emperors of Hue and the
parts of North Viet Nam controlled by the Chinese war lords.

You also have a serious problem with your time lines. Jane Fonda (may
she burn in hell and be fored to watch "Barbarella" for eternity)
didn't got to Viet Nam till July 1972! We Vets were totally pissed
off way before that time. Hell even the Australians said enough of
this dishonest crap and started to pull out in 1970.
>
>Ho Chi Minh said that the Vietnam war would not be won in the jungles
>of Vietnam, it would be won in the streets of Los Angeles, Chicago and
>Washington DC. He was exactly right. And Kerry helped him win.
>Regards,

Kerry was one of the founders of the VNVAW and it was entitled to do
so. I'm a decorated Viet Nam vet and gladly fought for the freedoms
the right wing is happy to deny us today.

Hind-sight is always 20-20 and we now know that Kerry was right in
what he did (and the traitor slut Fonda was wrong in what she did). I
joined another movement who feared that Viet nam would lead to an
exchange between the super powers.

Vietnam was WRONG and the very fact that cowards during that time are
so quick to jump on Kerry (who like me was there and people like Bush,
Clinton, Quayle, Cheney, Wolfowitz. Rummy etc etc were NOT) is
disgusting. I will agree that the man took a step down on the
evolutionary chain by becoming a politician but that's another
thread.)

Viet Nam was never a threat to the USA, there was no domino effect and
it was a terrible waste. Kerry had the balls to fight in VIET NAM and
march in the streets while Bush couldn't even show up for drills.

This is what this contest is about. A real man (with his faults like
the rest of us) vs a coward. Now if you PUGS will get some spine and
put Mc Cain and Lighthorse-Campbell against a tick of Richard Lamm and
either Kerry or Clark then you'll get my atention. Until then I'm
voting third party.

THOM

PS: Esso Oil leases in the south china sea...all gone!

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 1050 -0700, "Admin" wrote:

>
>"Lone Haranguer" wrote in message
>news:burh8i$ldrev$1@ID-192430.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> Thom wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 05:02:46 GMT, Richard Rongstad
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>"unknown" the lumpenproletariat tool of the politburo wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>>>>.
>> >>>
>> >>>Meanwhile Kerry was pissing on his Vietnam buddies while fawning over
>> >>>his hero JFK who started the Vietnam War.
>> >
>> >
>> > Nope, big lie just like WOMD. Ike and Nixon started the Viet Nam War
>> > in the 50's. I suggest you check your bible and see how naughty you
>> > are for lieing.
>>
>> Advisers were already there under Truman and we were helping the French.
>> Dummy.
>
>I wonder if it is prudent to remind everyone about the South East Aisian
>Treaty Organization that the US was signatory to. Australia was on it as
>well, so was Korea, and many others. You will find that many of us served
>side by side regardless of Nationality. SEATO was what got us in there and
>that was done under Truman. SEATO was directly equivelant to NATO for the
>exact same reasons. SEATO is no more these days. Stalin won that round.

few people relaize that there were 26 countries with troops of one
kind or anotherin Viet Nam including Canadians by the way.

I do agree with your point about truman but you can go back even
further to the OSS during WW2. In this discussion you have to find a
central flash point that started the shooting and that was OCT 1955
when we refused to live up to our promises for an election. I do
conceed there are other flash points but this was the big one that did
it.

RE: SEATO, probably ANSUS replaced it.

THOM
>
>
>

"C.V. Compton Shaw" wrote in message
news:4011CDBE.C32D9ED5@swbell.net...
> Senator John Kerry, because of his Vietnam anti-war activities as
> described in the original post, is "Number 10" in my opinion (which means
> in Vietnam War Jargon that he the worst type of person.)
> Mr. C.V. Compton Shaw;U.S. Army;4th Inf. Div.;2/8th Inf.;RVN 1969-1970

If you really upset a Vietnamese it came out as ......
you....you...you.... no bloody number :-)
(usually accompanied by stamping of feet)

Sunny wrote:
>
> "C.V. Compton Shaw" wrote in message
> news:4011CDBE.C32D9ED5@swbell.net...
> > Senator John Kerry, because of his Vietnam anti-war activities as
> > described in the original post, is "Number 10" in my opinion (which means
> > in Vietnam War Jargon that he the worst type of person.)
> > Mr. C.V. Compton Shaw;U.S. Army;4th Inf. Div.;2/8th Inf.;RVN 1969-1970
>
> If you really upset a Vietnamese it came out as ......
> you....you...you.... no bloody number :-)
> (usually accompanied by stamping of feet)

You numbah ten thou...

You got ration card G.I.?

Buy me hair spray? Buy me whikky?