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  #21  
Old 06-14-2002, 11:27 AM
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Packo Packo is offline
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Default For some reason

I think things were a little different then. I would imagine that the rapers from the Union Army were dealt with fast and were probably shot. At least I hope and the same would go for us if we did any of that stuff....but never heard tell of any.

You had a valid reason for destroying the pagoda. Like I said, that's different. In either case here, both with the English and the Yankees, the Church was just burned.

I agree and don't really see things in just black and white, although I hate grey areas, which is why I like the clairity of WWII. I guess, and not from you guys, I get real defensive over Southern things and the bad rap we get. Still got a bad taste in my mouth over that damned flag flap and it's still going on. There is a contingincy in this country that won't be happy until all things uniquely Southern are branded as racist and destroyed. Even Dixie is a racist term today. Give me a break. Some reenactors are not even allowed to carry Southern Battle Flags. Revisionist history is taking over where they teach history. I liken the South and the Southern soldier to the Vietnam Vet. There are many paralells.

So back to history, Thanks for the info on Hancock. Think he would have made a good president. I like brave guys running things.

Have you ever been to Sharpsburg when visiting your son in Pa.? The battle field is more pristine than Gettysburg but Gettysburg is far more interesting and fun to tour.

Packo
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  #22  
Old 06-14-2002, 04:00 PM
Andy Andy is offline
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Smile stuff

Tom,
Think it was Churchill who said, ?In defeat defiance, in victory magnanimity?? Of course you have the right to be defiant and I have some obligation to be magnanimous. However, there is no doubt that any objective person should be able to see that on the whole, Lee, Jackson, Forrest, Longstreet and others were very good generals. I would add a few other names which you would object to, so be it.

There were some southern A**holes who misused emblems of the CSA and now those who are politically correct want to abolish them. I?m not as bad as my cousin but see nothing wrong with flying the Confederate flag. I feel the same way about flying the pennant of my infantry Bat. which no longer exists.

Regarding rape, yes it was a different time and I?m sure some ladies were reluctant to come forward in 1864, more so than today. However only two were reported. An extremely small number. 25th Division had a man who was accused of rape in 1967, arrested for rape, found guilty of rape and sent to LBJ. He was turned in my his fellow soldiers. I wonder if Oliver Stone knew that?

Handcock never had a chance at being President. After the Grant administration and all it?s scandals I don?t think the country was ready for another ex-general.

Never been to Sharpsburg. Wanted to several times but either wives or liquor got in the way. Then again whiskey?s been blamed for lots if things it didn?t do. Next time I?m in PA. I?ll suggest the trip Again.

Stay healthy,
A foot soldier
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  #23  
Old 06-14-2002, 08:44 PM
chilidog chilidog is offline
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Default Nawlins

Andy,
I live on the northern fringes of Baton Rouge which is about a 1-1/2 hour drive to Nawlins. I am about 15 miles from I-10.

Yes, Lee's Lt.s does have a few good things to say about Dick Ewell. He had such respect for his wife's first husband that he introduced her as, "My wife, widow Brown." Sadly though, Lee's Lt.s also says that Ewell lost his fire and zeal when he lost his leg.


chilidog
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  #24  
Old 09-20-2006, 12:24 PM
39mto39g 39mto39g is offline
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  #25  
Old 09-21-2006, 07:13 PM
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Hi Andy, I fell that Butler was pretty bad. Don't forget that his command was the one that screwed up the attack on the crater at Petersburg. Also, A bunch of Ragtag Confeds were able to keep him bottled up at Bermuda Hundred for the last three months of the war. The Rebs pretty much kicked him out of the party so to speak.

As for McClellan, I think it can be pretty much proven that he whipped the army into shape for more abler generals to use it. I think Mac's tenure as an observer during the Crimean War may have colored his opinion of soldier's deaths and as a consequence, he didn't want to see his men die. Lee was just the opposite and Sharpsburg was an excellent example of that:

Rough numbers: Union 80,000, Rebs 40,000
Casualties were almost equal with 12k and change on each side. However, the Confeds % was much higher because of Lee's aggressive use of a defensive posture. Little Mac screwed up by attacking the Upper Bridge area first than the middle bridge than the lower bridge soon to be known as Burnside's bridge. So Lee met the first attack and parried it incurring casualties. Later in the day, McClellan shifted a completely new attack to the center of the line. Lee took men who survived the first attack and used them to bolster the center of the line for the second attack.

Again he parried Mac's thrust. Mac later in the day ordered Burnside to cross the lower bridge. Now some men who had been exposed in two earlier attacks were exposed once more. In other words, many of the Rebs were exposed three times more than his Yank counter part. In fact, Burnside finally did succeed in crossing the bridge and pushed the Georgian sharpshooters back. At the Reb left flank behind the crest of the hill where the Georgians were dug in, was Pickett's Division, They started to give way as well. It was only the timely arrival of A.P. Hill's Light Division from Harper's Ferry that saved the day for the Confeds. Strategically, I suppose you could say the Yanks won, But tactically it was a draw. Both sides left the field with pretty much the same positions that they had at the beginning of the fight.


Bill
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  #26  
Old 09-22-2006, 09:46 AM
Zinzendorf Zinzendorf is offline
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Default Re: I have Lee's Lt's

Quote:
Originally posted by Keith_Hixson Now what were the questions you wanted me to look up?

I have a theroy about most wars: (of course there are exceptions), those who have the population and industrial might will almost always win.

.........

Keith
"God is on the side with the largest battalions." (Who said that?)
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  #27  
Old 09-22-2006, 10:07 AM
Zinzendorf Zinzendorf is offline
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Default Marse Robert

If RE Lee was such a great general, they why did he sent his troops against cannon massed hub-to-hub, as he did at Malvern Hill? And then do virtually the same thing 1 year later at Gettysburg? He didn't seem to have learned too much from Malvern Hill. (If you've ever been there, it's more like Malvern Slope than Malvern Hill.)

I didn't see any mention of perhaps the greatest general on either side, Patrick Cleburne, aka "the Stonewall of the West." Only politics kept him at the relatively low rank that he had. (Politics in the Army of Tennessee? Perish the thought!)

And speaking of Stonewall (Jackson, that is), at the end of The War, he was just as popular (perhaps more so) that Lee. It was only in later years that the PR campaign of ex-Reb generals, lead by that dimwit Jubal Early, elevated Lee to icon status.

My vote of worst general (either side) would probably go to John B Hood. Remember Franklin! If the CSA hadn't gone out of business, Hood would most definitely have been court-martialed, and deservedly so.

To quote the final part of The Yellow Rose of Texas:

You may talk about your Beauregard,
and sing of Bobby Lee,
but the gallant Hood of Texas,
he played hell in Tennessee!
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  #28  
Old 09-22-2006, 12:15 PM
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Keith_Hixson Keith_Hixson is offline
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Post Grant,

Grant wasn't that bad of a general. And there were times when he should have used a little more tactics than might but other times he showed some excellent leadership skills. He certainly was a cut above average for a general. Lee wasn't perfect! He threw men into the meat grinder for no purpose also, ie Malvern Hill and Gettysburg were really bad decisions. The Pickett's charge probably lost the war for South. George Pickett, "what division, sir."

Keith

P.S.

Can you imagine how villianized Lee would have been after Gettysburg if the modern press had been there?
Or . . . George W needs to get a good press secretary like Lee.
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  #29  
Old 09-22-2006, 01:36 PM
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Zinzendorf, I like Patrick Cleburne myself. However, I believe that the guy everybody loves to hate is the best General on either side. That guy being Nathan Bedford Forrest. No matter what anyone may think of the Fort Pillow affair, no one can deny his genius in driving Sherman and other Union Generals absolutely nuts. The man had no fear and had an absolute natural grasp of tactics without any formal training.

I think his escape from Fort's Henry, Donelson says it all when he refused to surrender.

Bill
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  #30  
Old 09-22-2006, 02:06 PM
DMZ-LT DMZ-LT is offline
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Default Simple Stragety for Forrest

" Get there first with the most men". I went to college in TN in 1965 and the ROTC building was named after him and at football games The MTSU Raiders were led on the field by a Conferate clad Forrest with a sword. Some where in the last41 years they got politically correct and removed his name from the building and the horseman is no more. No conferate flags allowed at games either
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