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  #21  
Old 01-31-2003, 10:37 AM
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eds....I never heard of Harpers Ferry mis-spelling it's name on a lock plate. The ONLY Mod. 1836 that Harpers Ferry made was the Type I and II Hall Carbines in .64cal smoothbore. The markings on the TOP of the receiver are "J.H. Hall/U.S./(Date )This musket resembles the pictures I have posted of the Hall Rifle on this thread. The next model that they made was the 1841 Muzzleloading "Mississippi" Rifle. in .54 cal.The side lockplate was marked Eagle over US forward of hammer and "Harpers/Ferry/(Date) on the tail of the lockplate. Also marked with date on breechplug tang and inspectors initials AW/P or WW/P and proofmarks (Eagle Head "V" and "P" on upper left side of barrel near tang) Next was the 1842 musket in .69 cal (Smoothbore) with similar markings. The last Harpers Ferry weapon made was the 1855 Rifle-Musket type I and II in .58 cal with the Maynard Tape Priming door ahead of the hammer. I have NEVER heard of any lockplates being mis-spelled. If you can get a photo of it onto the boards I'll try to identify it for you. Try to photograph the markings and lockplate. The possibility exists that the weapon is an original (maybe a contract rifle) that has had the lockplate altered to attempt to increase the value. You might even have an Enfield that was altered in India or Pakistan to resemble a Harpers Ferry.
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  #22  
Old 02-02-2003, 10:23 AM
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Question 1836 0r 1862 Harpers Ferry

Col:
Excuse my ignorance. I couldn't figure out how to reply to your prompt reply to my query. I tried to send you somethiong direct but I don't know if you got it. Now that I figured it out-here goes.

Here are some of the specifics. Bought a Kentucky rifle and Trapdoor in Zanesville, Ohio in 1956. Seller threw in the H/F and the baynonet for $10.

Althought the lock is dated 1836 and misspells "Harpres Ferry", I just noted the barrel is stamped 1862. Don't know how I missed this the first time!

It is stamped with "9" and "v" on most parts. The barrel and plug are stamped "14". There is "H & P" on the nipple base.

Could this be a conversion of a flintlock. I'm really confused. Also, you implied this might be a copy. The kentucky rifle had a local history and I think the H/F did too. If Itwere a fake, would they sell it for $10.--even in 1956 dollars.

I have attached some pix but they could be better.

Hope maybe you can shed some light.
thx,
Ed Spengeman
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  #23  
Old 02-02-2003, 11:34 AM
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Default By the look of the left side of the stock

It appears to be an 1816 musket altered to percussion. The rear sight is correct for an 1861 rifled musket of the kind that were converted at Frankford Arsenal using a Remington Lock Plate with the Maynard Tape Priming System (A door in front of the hammer held a roll of paper caps) I would need to see a picture of the lock plate to be sure. The 9 on the lock plate bolster is probably a rack number and not an inspectors mark. These weapons were NOT serial numbered. The bore should be .69 cal. if I'm not mistaken. Someone may have substituted a reproduction lockplate in the weapon. If you can do it, attach a picture of the muzzle end to include the front band and a picture of the lockplate. Also try to get a picture of the top of the breech with any markings there.
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  #24  
Old 02-02-2003, 12:05 PM
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Default I looked at the photo in your PM

and the date marking in front of the bolster is incorrect. The barrels were dated on the tang at the rear of the breech. That date may have been put there to show when it was converted. The lockplate may be a foreign manufactured "Period" lockplate that was altered to appear to be a Harpers Ferry Lockplate. The lockplate should be marked Harpers Ferry/Date vertically behind the hammer on the tail of the lockplate and should have a US over an Eagle in front of the hammer. The front of the gun should have a Mod. 1816 style front band which is different from the nose cap of the 1861/1863 rifles. The later rifles did not have the serpentine opposite the lockplate on the left side of the stock. The serpentine you show is characteristic of the Mod. 1816 which was converted from flint to percussion in great numbers at the start of the Civil War.
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  #25  
Old 02-02-2003, 04:10 PM
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Default 1816/1836/1862???

Dear Col.:
I hope I have attached the requested pix. The "9" may be a rack number but it's on about every part but the barrel and plug. On another board I read something about the "H & P" on the nipple mount. It had something to do with a changeover from flintlock. The only dates are 1836 on the lock plate and 1862 near the tang. Barrel is definitly smooth bore.
I hope the pictures come out ok.
Ed
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  #26  
Old 02-03-2003, 09:58 AM
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Ok, it's definitely an 1816 musket that's been converted from flint to percussion. It's a "Contract" musket and I'll have do do some research to find out who H & P was. It's definitely NOT Harpers Ferry. Harpers Ferry was pretty meticulous about inspections and did not pass any lockplates with misspellings. The 9 and 14 could be either sub-inspectors marks or more probably batch numbers on the parts. The misspelled marking may have been added later.
It's still worth a lot more than the $10.00 kyou paid for it. An original bayonet alone, for a Mod. 1816 is worth around $300.00.
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  #27  
Old 02-03-2003, 12:21 PM
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Default Ok guys!

We have a new thread called Military Weapons now. We can post all of our stuff over on that thread now.
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