Purple Heart Award

Alan Sandoval wrote:
>
> > >
> > >3. A wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by
> > >a medical officer.
> >
> > Since this is about Kerry, do we know that he was/wasn't treated by a
> doctor?
> >
> > OK you Navy guys, does an LST have a doctor aboard?
> >
> A regular fleet LST had only a corpsman aboard, I suspect the barracks
> support ships on the Mekong (which were converted LST's) probably did have
> doctors aboard.

By that I presume you mean a regular LST doing Gator Navy duty.
I'm thinking LSTs with BLT or other Marine units embarked
would from time to time have Navy MDs with those Marines.

But, I'm also thinking maybe LSTs in the rivers had a doctor,
or doctors, after all, they provided support to many vessels,
teams, units.

Mess decks and wardrooms in small ships had the
surgical operating room apparatus (lights, etc.) in the
overhead, usually mounted right over a fixed table.

By barracks support ships I think you mean the YRBM, and
I was guessing they would have a doctor, but we're both
guessing on that one.

YRBMs are converted LSTs? I remember that the YRBM at Ben Luc
looked like a barn on a barge. Maybe a basic LST hull but I
believe YRBM were built from the keel up as YRBM. Now you've
got me thinking Alan, gotta go find out now.

Richard Rongstad wrote:

>YRBMs are converted LSTs? I remember that the YRBM at Ben Luc
>looked like a barn on a barge. Maybe a basic LST hull but I
>believe YRBM were built from the keel up as YRBM. Now you've
>got me thinking Alan, gotta go find out now.

The Ben Luc Bridge (1968). Up one day, down the next, then down, then up, etc, etc.
THAT Ben Luc?

Remind me to tell you my 1989 Ben Luc Bridge story.

Doug

Alan Sandoval wrote:
>
> > The LST I would be asking about is the one/kind that was used by the Swift
> Boats,
> > which was moored ("moored" -- did I just wax nautical?) off the coast when
> they
> > were doing their thing in the Camau Peninsula.
> >
> > Doug
> >
>
> I was on the USS Park County for two months somewhere off the Mekong, I
> don't know exactly where, supporting the swift boats with fuel, supplies,
> etc. We had no doctor aboard. That would have been around the middle of
> 1968 to summer 1969. We never dropped anchor, just constantly cruised at a
> slow speed. Worst two months of my duty. We ran out of all fresh food
> after one week. After a while I didn't know if we were supporting the
> swifts or if they were supporting us. They brought us mail and movies, we
> provided them with fuel, oil, etc.

Hah, hah, that's funny Alan. Well, there's one answer for Doug,
the USS Park County had no medical doctor for two months.

Did any of the officers or crew have a potted palm tree?
I sure loved those 16mm movie projectors where the film jumped
track every 100 frames or so.

I've just put the question to another Navy CWO, he's basically a
historian of Navy operations in Vietnam, and I'm thinking he's
got the answer or knows somebody that has the answer.

I was injured at Tan An, which is close to Ben Luc. But I
was taken to an Army aid station near Tan An, and then medevaced
by Army, so if there were Navy doctor's at the YRBMs at Ben Luc
or Dong Tam, well that was ruled out by what the situation was,
because I never saw a Navy doctor until I got to Yokosuka.

Doug Reese wrote:
>
> Richard Rongstad wrote:
>
> >YRBMs are converted LSTs? I remember that the YRBM at Ben Luc
> >looked like a barn on a barge. Maybe a basic LST hull but I
> >believe YRBM were built from the keel up as YRBM. Now you've
> >got me thinking Alan, gotta go find out now.
>
> The Ben Luc Bridge (1968). Up one day, down the next, then down, then up, etc, etc.
> THAT Ben Luc?
>
> Remind me to tell you my 1989 Ben Luc Bridge story.
>
> Doug

This is taking on a deja vu quality.

Yes, we must both be talking about THAT Ben Luc.

The Longest War: VC Plans For An Attack On The Ben Luc Bridge

This is a thread reassembled by Google Groups that begins
with two posts from American War Library, one from Brook Rowe,
then me, then you, and then two more by Otis Willie.

This thread began in 1999 and ended in 2003!

Do this exact Google Groups search (between *);
*bridge "ben luc" author:rongstad@vikingphoenix.com*
to see what I mean.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 2313 GMT, "Wakyer Eagle"
wrote:

>shit, Pat, you'd fucking be dead by the time ya read all that chit
>
>"Patrick t." wrote in message
>news:cjc230tosput2qngjik7sjji8tss4vduen@4ax.com...
>>
>> I looked it up, a Medical Officer must treat for the Purple, not a
>> doc, medic, corpsman, etc., it must be a Medical Officer......
>
Wrongo! When I realized that college was interfering with my drinking
I smartened up and took the Evelyn Wood Reading Dynamics class and
learned how to speed read. It gave me my cake and let me eat it too.

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:46:43 GMT, Richard Rongstad
wrote:

>Doug Reese wrote:
>>
>> Patrick t. wrote:
>> >
>> >I looked it up, a Medical Officer must treat for the Purple, not a
>> >doc, medic, corpsman, etc., it must be a Medical Officer......
>
>[snip
>
>
>> Since this is about Kerry, do we know that he was/wasn't treated by a doctor?
>>
>> OK you Navy guys, does an LST have a doctor aboard?
>>
>> While my wound was of the minor shrapnel variety, it was treated/looked at by a
>> doctor. I was off for a couple of days (Hey -- it hurt, damn it!).
>>
>> Doug
>
>I don't think I ever set foot on an LST in Vietnam, but I would
>find it mind boggling if the LSTs did not carry at least one
>full MD, especially being mother ship to Swifts, PBRs, all
>manner of MRF vessels and various weird detachments and teams.
>Perhaps the YRBMs such as at Dong Tam and Ben Luc might have
>had an MD assigned, but I don't know for sure.
>
>Another thing the Navy has is independent duty corpsman,
>a combination of experience, special schooling, time in rate,
>etc. It would not surprise me if a senior corpsman with
>independent duty stamped in his service jacket would be allowed
>to sign off on purple hearts, or it would be routine for
>an MD to take his word for it. Independent duty corpsmen
>serve on small ships and isolated duty stations where there
>is no MD, e.g., both minesweepers and the destroyer I was
>on had HM1 (E-6) that had all done at least one tour with FMF.
>There was a modified LST that was mother ship to the minesweepers
>in Charleston, they must have had an MD, they held sick call for
>all the MSOs. Doc up! I'd like to hear Navy corpsmen from
>Vietnam War comment on my opinion. Of course, Navy corpsmen
>assigned to FMF would conform their SOP in all matters including
>PH to the needs and dictates of the Marines.

Negative on your last. FMF Corpsmen were not allowed to do much vis a
vis a purple. It had to go to the Medical OFFICER in III MAF.

"Patrick t." wrote:
>
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:46:43 GMT, Richard Rongstad
> wrote:
>
> >Doug Reese wrote:
> >>
> >> Patrick t. wrote:
> >> >
> >> >I looked it up, a Medical Officer must treat for the Purple, not a
> >> >doc, medic, corpsman, etc., it must be a Medical Officer......
> >
> >[snip
> >
> >
> >> Since this is about Kerry, do we know that he was/wasn't treated by a doctor?
> >>
> >> OK you Navy guys, does an LST have a doctor aboard?
> >>
> >> While my wound was of the minor shrapnel variety, it was treated/looked at by a
> >> doctor. I was off for a couple of days (Hey -- it hurt, damn it!).
> >>
> >> Doug
> >
> >I don't think I ever set foot on an LST in Vietnam, but I would
> >find it mind boggling if the LSTs did not carry at least one
> >full MD, especially being mother ship to Swifts, PBRs, all
> >manner of MRF vessels and various weird detachments and teams.
> >Perhaps the YRBMs such as at Dong Tam and Ben Luc might have
> >had an MD assigned, but I don't know for sure.
> >
> >Another thing the Navy has is independent duty corpsman,
> >a combination of experience, special schooling, time in rate,
> >etc. It would not surprise me if a senior corpsman with
> >independent duty stamped in his service jacket would be allowed
> >to sign off on purple hearts, or it would be routine for
> >an MD to take his word for it. Independent duty corpsmen
> >serve on small ships and isolated duty stations where there
> >is no MD, e.g., both minesweepers and the destroyer I was
> >on had HM1 (E-6) that had all done at least one tour with FMF.
> >There was a modified LST that was mother ship to the minesweepers
> >in Charleston, they must have had an MD, they held sick call for
> >all the MSOs. Doc up! I'd like to hear Navy corpsmen from
> >Vietnam War comment on my opinion. Of course, Navy corpsmen
> >assigned to FMF would conform their SOP in all matters including
> >PH to the needs and dictates of the Marines.
>
> Negative on your last. FMF Corpsmen were not allowed to do much vis a
> vis a purple. It had to go to the Medical OFFICER in III MAF.

Hello Patrick, let's talk book offlist, I'll email you.

I think that's what I said.
Repeating: "Of course, Navy corpsmen assigned to FMF would conform
their SOP in all matters including PH to the needs and dictates of
the Marines."

You may have misunderstood when I speculated that an independent
duty corpsman could sign off on a PH, I didn't mean an independent
duty corpsman with FMF. That's it, just speculation.

You did say "It had to go to the Medical OFFICER in III MAF"
and I take it that you mean the paperwork with signatures of
corpsmen, Marine officers and perhaps other witnesses, not
the actual wounded Marine went to the III MAF Medical Officer.

Damn! Where's Doc Braddy or Doc Vaughn or Doc Craig when I need 'em?
Probably lancing chancres. Did you ever know or hear of any of those
three?

I been racking my brain, and although I went on sick call the next day,
damned if I can recall seeing a medical officer for my injury. I thought
the guy I saw was a Spc6, who read the x-ray and gave me some pills. Maybe
not. But I got the PH about six months after I DEROSED. It was surely the
cheapest PH on record, and nobody was more surprised than I was when it
arrived at my Colonel's office.

There were a number of guys hurt during that episode, and I wonder if there
was some kind of brigade or divisional directive, prolly unofficial, that
all such were to get the award.

I did know of a guy who fell on his machete while cutting a fire lane one
night, and was medivaced by Chinook in very poor weather. He was killed
when the chopper crashed just after liftoff. I heard that he got the PH, a
few days after the event, at a staff meeting. This was at an HQ forward of
the 2/7 Cav, August 1966, south of Pleiku on the road to Ban Me Thuot. I
was acting as arty LNO.

The news was received in silence, and I don't think anybody thought a thing
about it. Least you could do, was what I thought. The guy was killed.
Give his family a medal.

ted

"Richard Rongstad" wrote in message
news:4031A5B9.55665B2C@NOSPAMvikiingphoenix.com...
> Alan Sandoval wrote:
> >
> > > The LST I would be asking about is the one/kind that was used by the
Swift
> > Boats,
> > > which was moored ("moored" -- did I just wax nautical?) off the coast
when
> > they
> > > were doing their thing in the Camau Peninsula.
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> >
> > I was on the USS Park County for two months somewhere off the Mekong, I
> > don't know exactly where, supporting the swift boats with fuel,
supplies,
> > etc. We had no doctor aboard. That would have been around the middle
of
> > 1968 to summer 1969. We never dropped anchor, just constantly cruised
at a
> > slow speed. Worst two months of my duty. We ran out of all fresh food
> > after one week. After a while I didn't know if we were supporting the
> > swifts or if they were supporting us. They brought us mail and movies,
we
> > provided them with fuel, oil, etc.
>
> Hah, hah, that's funny Alan. Well, there's one answer for Doug,
> the USS Park County had no medical doctor for two months.
>
> Did any of the officers or crew have a potted palm tree?
> I sure loved those 16mm movie projectors where the film jumped
> track every 100 frames or so.
>
> I've just put the question to another Navy CWO, he's basically a
> historian of Navy operations in Vietnam, and I'm thinking he's
> got the answer or knows somebody that has the answer.
>
> I was injured at Tan An, which is close to Ben Luc. But I
> was taken to an Army aid station near Tan An, and then medevaced
> by Army, so if there were Navy doctor's at the YRBMs at Ben Luc
> or Dong Tam, well that was ruled out by what the situation was,
> because I never saw a Navy doctor until I got to Yokosuka.

"Ted Gittinger" wrote in message
news:HxzYb.1946$J84.1495@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> I been racking my brain, and although I went on sick call the next day,
> damned if I can recall seeing a medical officer for my injury. I thought
> the guy I saw was a Spc6, who read the x-ray and gave me some pills.
Maybe
> not. But I got the PH about six months after I DEROSED. It was surely
the
> cheapest PH on record, and nobody was more surprised than I was when it
> arrived at my Colonel's office.
>
> There were a number of guys hurt during that episode, and I wonder if
there
> was some kind of brigade or divisional directive, prolly unofficial, that
> all such were to get the award.
>
> I did know of a guy who fell on his machete while cutting a fire lane one
> night, and was medivaced by Chinook in very poor weather. He was killed
> when the chopper crashed just after liftoff. I heard that he got the PH,
a
> few days after the event, at a staff meeting. This was at an HQ forward
of
> the 2/7 Cav, August 1966, south of Pleiku on the road to Ban Me Thuot. I
> was acting as arty LNO.
>
> The news was received in silence, and I don't think anybody thought a
thing
> about it. Least you could do, was what I thought. The guy was killed.
> Give his family a medal.
>
> ted
>
> "Richard Rongstad" wrote in message
> news:4031A5B9.55665B2C@NOSPAMvikiingphoenix.com...
> > Alan Sandoval wrote:
> > >
> > > > The LST I would be asking about is the one/kind that was used by the
> Swift
> > > Boats,
> > > > which was moored ("moored" -- did I just wax nautical?) off the
coast
> when
> > > they
> > > > were doing their thing in the Camau Peninsula.
> > > >
> > > > Doug
> > > >
> > >
> > > I was on the USS Park County for two months somewhere off the Mekong,
I
> > > don't know exactly where, supporting the swift boats with fuel,
> supplies,
> > > etc. We had no doctor aboard. That would have been around the middle
> of
> > > 1968 to summer 1969. We never dropped anchor, just constantly cruised
> at a
> > > slow speed. Worst two months of my duty. We ran out of all fresh
food
> > > after one week. After a while I didn't know if we were supporting the
> > > swifts or if they were supporting us. They brought us mail and
movies,
> we
> > > provided them with fuel, oil, etc.
> >
> > Hah, hah, that's funny Alan. Well, there's one answer for Doug,
> > the USS Park County had no medical doctor for two months.
> >
> > Did any of the officers or crew have a potted palm tree?
> > I sure loved those 16mm movie projectors where the film jumped
> > track every 100 frames or so.
> >
> > I've just put the question to another Navy CWO, he's basically a
> > historian of Navy operations in Vietnam, and I'm thinking he's
> > got the answer or knows somebody that has the answer.
> >
> > I was injured at Tan An, which is close to Ben Luc. But I
> > was taken to an Army aid station near Tan An, and then medevaced
> > by Army, so if there were Navy doctor's at the YRBMs at Ben Luc
> > or Dong Tam, well that was ruled out by what the situation was,
> > because I never saw a Navy doctor until I got to Yokosuka.
>
>

A good friend who shall remain unnamed at this juncture got his Heart for
having his rather protuberant buttocks sliced open by a falling metal object
while standing on the roof of the Caravelle hotel taking pictures on an
"official CI mission". I got mine for having what appeared to be a spent
AK47 round hit my calf right above the boot line when I and another guy were
on our way to the Red Beach PX and took fire from the big paddy area at the
rear of the I Corps HQ compound just outside of DaNAng. The medic told me
that if had hit my boot I wouldn't have had a scratch. I never asked for
the award or even said much except to joke at the time that it had probably
bounced off of the Lieutenant's head before it got me. But, it showed up in
the mail almost 1 year after I left RVN the first time. Just a big
envelope, the certificate, the medal in that plush box and a set of orders.
No explanation.

Cheeresq

Dave

CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:
>

[snip]

> A good friend who shall remain unnamed at this juncture got his Heart for
> having his rather protuberant buttocks sliced open by a falling metal object
> while standing on the roof of the Caravelle hotel taking pictures on an
> "official CI mission". I got mine for having what appeared to be a spent
> AK47 round hit my calf right above the boot line when I and another guy were
> on our way to the Red Beach PX and took fire from the big paddy area at the
> rear of the I Corps HQ compound just outside of DaNAng. The medic told me
> that if had hit my boot I wouldn't have had a scratch. I never asked for
> the award or even said much except to joke at the time that it had probably
> bounced off of the Lieutenant's head before it got me. But, it showed up in
> the mail almost 1 year after I left RVN the first time. Just a big
> envelope, the certificate, the medal in that plush box and a set of orders.
> No explanation.
>
> Cheeresq
>
> Dave

Dave, I don't understand. Your purple heart was delivered with
transfer orders? Or, the "set of orders" was guidelines on how to
wear the medal and the ribbon? Hmmh. Here's your purple heart and
by the way you're going back?