Hey SuperScout #2

[exlrrp]

All the men from Berkeley who died in VN

DONALD HUBERT BROWN JR
LTJG, NAVY
BERKELEY, CA
8/22/1938 - 8/12/1965



PHILIP MICHAEL CALLAN
PFC, MARINE CORPS
BERKELEY, CA
6/17/1945 - 10/4/1966



KENNETH ROBBINS CAMERON
CAPT, NAVY
BERKELEY, CA
8/9/1928 - 5/18/1967



ERSKINE LOGAN CRUMP
PVT, ARMY
BERKELEY, CA
4/3/1948 - 2/15/1969



OTIS JAMES DARDEN
SP4, ARMY
BERKELEY, CA
2/3/1948 - 2/3/1969



THOMAS PATRICK DUGGAN
PFC, MARINE CORPS
BERKELEY, CA
7/15/1950 - 1/28/1969



DONALD LEROY GASSER
PFC, ARMY
BERKELEY, CA
11/5/1941 - 8/29/1967



ALLEN HIDEO HARANO
PFC, ARMY
BERKELEY, CA
1/10/1948 - 2/6/1968



MICHAEL JAMES HARE
CPL, MARINE CORPS
BERKELEY, CA
6/1/1947 - 6/17/1967



GARY MICHIEL MABREY
SGT, ARMY
BERKELEY, CA
4/25/1947 - 8/5/1968



CHARLES RICHARD MULLAN JR
HN, NAVY
BERKELEY, CA
12/16/1946 - 6/28/1967



BRANDT STEELE NEUBACHER
SGT, ARMY
BERKELEY, CA
8/1/1947 - 7/6/1968



REX LEWIS PARCELS JR
LTJG, NAVY
BERKELEY, CA
1/16/1945 - 3/9/1970



WINFIELD WADE SISSON
MAJ, MARINE CORPS
BERKELEY, CA
9/22/1937 - 10/18/1965



ESMOND EMERSON SNELL JR
1LT, ARMY
BERKELEY, CA
7/18/1943 - 4/16/1968



JOHN BUSSEY WALLER
SP5, ARMY
BERKELEY, CA
12/9/1947 - 3/27/1969



JAMES OSCAR WEST
PFC, ARMY
BERKELEY, CA
3/14/1945 - 3/31/1968



SHOJIRO YAMASHITA
SGT, ARMY
BERKELEY, CA
3/31/1945 - 6/10/1970



This may be good news to some people--let them sign their names here

James Worth

Happy just to be alive!!

[GoldenDragon]

"The dead ask no questions, need no answers, know no politics. They just are."

Saint Crispen's Day speech from Shakespeare's Henry V:

That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

[SuperScout]

Was there some code or message I was supposed to get from your post? Pardon me for being obtuse, but it went past me at warp speed if it was! Kindly inform me about the reason for the listing of names.

[GoldenDragon]

Here is the list of names you said were deleted. They have been here every since you posted it.

I deleted two of your posts and PM'ed you and explained why. You never acknowledged the PM. I never deleted any post containing names. Someone else may have, I don't know.

This all started because another person made a statement about liberals in general. You are the one that made the choice of taking it personally and come on the thread and started calling the posters sister a whore and abusing him in post after post. I agree with you, I will not remain on any site where any veteran is allowed to be abused in any way. That is what I deleted, it was in a thread I started and was a good discussion before you tore it apart. I'm not complaining about loosing the thread.

I even suggested you take a deep breath and calm down and I assured you no one would be allowed to abuse you either. Your response was to ignore me and attack everyone on the board that would not see things your way.

To use the names of honorable men who died in combat to futher a political attack on others is despicable. I did my best in my first reply to calm things down and get things back on an even keel. You totally ignored the reply and thread and started in elsewhere.
The only one I see disrespecting veterans is you.
That is your choice. The door swings both ways.

[SuperScout]

For my part in this dispute, I accept responsibility, and offer my apologies to any and all concerned who may have taken issue with my metaphorical reference to liberals. I truly meant no harm, but was simply trying to make a point with tongue in cheek. Some may lack what I may perceive as an appropriate sense of humor to participate in a lively discussion of political matters. Name calling and personal attacks have no place here or others similarly dedicated to open discourse; personal disagreement with another's belief system is no call for gutter dwelling.

[Keith_Hixson]

No one should speak for another politically, especially the dead who can't speak for themselves. Just because one lives in particular area is no guarantee of ones political persuasion. I lived in downtown Seattle for one year. I definitely was in the minority politically, I had some some very good liberal friends and still do but I wasn't of the same political persuasion. The point being: Let the dead rest in peace.. We cannot know their political persuasion. Let's honor the dead not use them as a pawn in a political discussion.

Your original post was on Bigotry: I responded to that post. I basically said it has been my experience that Bigotry runs in both direction. Bigotry takes place when one dislikes the beliefs, lifestyle, color of another's skin so much that hatred and rage take over. But just disagreeing with another is not Bigotry. There are philosophies, lifestyles and opinions that I may disagree but that doesn't make me a Bigot. I have seen the ugly side of Bigotry on both ends of Political thought, Religous Philosophy, and Lifestyle issues and it is ugly no matter who is promoting Bigotry. Having been involved in politics in a more liberal state than California (Washington) I have had people tell me that they hate me just because I was more conservative on some issues than they and because I am a minister. Now that is Bigotry!!! I had never done a thing personally to them but they hated me because of who they think I am. But the one thing that bothered me the most was: Just because I was of a different political persuasion than they, it was their concerted opinion that my IQ was low and I was incapable of making logical decisions. Now that can be Bigotry if done with a hateful attitude. But to make a decision about anyone because of their political persuasion that they are dumb, stupid, or backward is Bigotted. May we as a country never become so conservative or liberal in our thinking that we shut down the free flow of ideas. And may we always respect anothers right to hold his opinions if they are legal and law abiding.

I say let the free flow of Political discussion flow without hatred or personal attacks.

Keith

P.S. James I still Love Ya.

[GoldenDragon]

Name calling and personal attacks have no place here or others similarly dedicated to open discourse; personal disagreement with another's belief system is no call for gutter dwelling.

I agree and as far as I am concerned you owe no one an apology. You are not the one that responded with filthy language and personal insults. Some things stand on their own and need no clarification from anyone.

[usmcsgt65]

Henry V

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother.

We have seen the elphant

[Arrow]

What the dragon said...

[MORTARDUDE]

...for all the explanations. I don't get to read or participate much any more. For any one who cares, one of my best friends in 'Nam was from Berkeley, CA. He even bore a striking resemblance to RFK.
He and I debated politics many times and never had a screaming match. We went on R & R together in Sydney and had a great time.

I believe that if anyone posts such rubbish as I have seen posted recently, they should be kicked until they promise to behave...and if they do it again, kick them permanently, pure and simple. Sorry James....That is solely my view, and I could be wrong.....


Larry