Do you have any information about collecting war trophies or battlefield souvenirs?

"It was a brutal ghastly ritual the likes of which have occurred since
ancient times on battlefields where the antagonists have possessed a
profound mutual hatred. It was uncivilized, as is all war, and was
carried out with that particular savagery that characterized the
struggle….It wasn't simply souvenir hunting or looting the enemy dead;
it was more like Indian warriors taking scalps." - Pfc. Eugene B.
Sledge, With the Old Breed at Peleliu and Okinawa

I am currently conducting research on the collection of war trophies
or battlefield souvenirs by combat soldiers in WWII, Korea, Vietnam,
Gulf War, Afghanistan, or Iraq. The research will be used in an
article or series of articles for general publication.

I am particularly interested in hearing from soldiers or veterans who
have personal knowledge about the collection of human body parts as
war trophies.

I understand this is a sensitive and controversial subject. No
disrespect or insult is intended for those readers who may disagree
with an article on this subject.

If you can provide background information or would consent to being
interviewed, please e-mail me at rescon01@tpg.com.au

Thanks

In news:94c14ba1.0402100446.4f7fc41@posting.google.co m,
Chris radiated into the WorldWideWait:

> "It was a brutal ghastly ritual the likes of which have occurred
> since ancient times on battlefields where the antagonists have
> possessed a profound mutual hatred. It was uncivilized, as is all
> war, and was carried out with that particular savagery that
> characterized the struggle….It wasn't simply souvenir hunting or
> looting the enemy dead; it was more like Indian warriors taking
> scalps." - Pfc. Eugene B. Sledge, With the Old Breed at Peleliu and
> Okinawa
>
> I am currently conducting research on the collection of war trophies
> or battlefield souvenirs by combat soldiers in WWII, Korea, Vietnam,
> Gulf War, Afghanistan, or Iraq. The research will be used in an
> article or series of articles for general publication.
>
> I am particularly interested in hearing from soldiers or veterans
> who have personal knowledge about the collection of human body
> parts as war trophies.
>
> I understand this is a sensitive and controversial subject. No
> disrespect or insult is intended for those readers who may disagree
> with an article on this subject.
>
> If you can provide background information or would consent to being
> interviewed, please e-mail me at rescon01@tpg.com.au

Notice that he makes the assumption that all those stories are true?

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:00:05 -0600, "Duke of URL"
wrote:

>> If you can provide background information or would consent to being
>> interviewed, please e-mail me at rescon01@tpg.com.au
>
>Notice that he makes the assumption that all those stories are true?
>
Yea, he wants to talk to Dino.

> Notice that he makes the assumption that all those stories are true?

Actually, I don't think that I have made the assumption that "all of
those stories are true". The purpose of my information request is to
determine how common or uncommon the practice actually was. While it
has become a staple of popular culture - especially in Vietnam War
movies - there are indications that the practice did actually occur.

My research has found references to the taking of human war trophies
in numerous veteran's memoirs from WWII and Vietnam. I can cite some
examples if you want. The practice is also expressly forbidden by
numerous military and international legal statutes including the UCMJ
(Sec 504c).

"Chris" wrote in message
news:94c14ba1.0402101406.70bfc6a@posting.google.co m...
> > Notice that he makes the assumption that all those stories are true?
>
> Actually, I don't think that I have made the assumption that "all of
> those stories are true". The purpose of my information request is to
> determine how common or uncommon the practice actually was. While it
> has become a staple of popular culture - especially in Vietnam War
> movies - there are indications that the practice did actually occur.
>
> My research has found references to the taking of human war trophies
> in numerous veteran's memoirs from WWII and Vietnam. I can cite some
> examples if you want. The practice is also expressly forbidden by
> numerous military and international legal statutes including the UCMJ
> (Sec 504c).

Actually, it is Article 93 of the Punitive Articles. Art 93 was used for
all of the cases I am familiar with.

HTH, YMMV, AFAIK, M2CW, YKWIM?, LSMFT, HAND!

Dave
Pequin Poet Laureate
Nut Sack Clipper #1
CWO4 US Army (Ret)
Special Agent, B&C Number 3325

Penises. Circumcised only. They make a nice necklace.

In article <94c14ba1.0402101406.70bfc6a@posting.google.com>, Chris says...
>
>> Notice that he makes the assumption that all those stories are true?
>
>Actually, I don't think that I have made the assumption that "all of
>those stories are true". The purpose of my information request is to
>determine how common or uncommon the practice actually was. While it
>has become a staple of popular culture - especially in Vietnam War
>movies - there are indications that the practice did actually occur.
>
>My research has found references to the taking of human war trophies
>in numerous veteran's memoirs from WWII and Vietnam. I can cite some
>examples if you want. The practice is also expressly forbidden by
>numerous military and international legal statutes including the UCMJ
>(Sec 504c).

Books are full of personal narratives of such. Read what one of the guys who
has posted periodically on AWV (non-archive of course) has to say:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++
From: Ron (B1327@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Did AMERICANS HABITUALLY CIT OFF EARS IN VIETNAM? { IS JACK G...
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: soc.veterans
Date: 1997/07/23


Christ, this is sickening.

Anybody who says there was no ear removal in RVN either was a remf,
never saw any protracted heavy shit, or is a goddam practicioner of
revisionist history.

What bullshit. Things like this happened, boys & girls. I aint denying
it, nor apologizing for it.

It fucking existed. Sometimes, we would even remove the heads from the
ears before we stored 'em, (In an accessory pack, heavily salted, not no
damn beer).

Let this be the end of this asinine topic, unless someone can prove that
it NEVER occurred, which aint possible. It did.

Ron
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++
Yes sir... This Ronald L. Egan was a member of the infamous 101st Airborne
Division (B Company, 1/327th Infantry) AND a member of the elite Tiger Force
which the "Blade" has exposed as executing innocent civilians including
children... He has written about beheading and slicing throats and how serene
he felt while his victims bled to death...

And yes... *I* did see trophy ears while I was with the 173rd Airborne Brigade
in the field...

dino grunt46@hotmail.com

On 10 Feb 2004 15:38:52 -0800, dino wrote:

>In article <94c14ba1.0402101406.70bfc6a@posting.google.com>, Chris says...
>>
>>> Notice that he makes the assumption that all those stories are true?
>>
>>Actually, I don't think that I have made the assumption that "all of
>>those stories are true". The purpose of my information request is to
>>determine how common or uncommon the practice actually was. While it
>>has become a staple of popular culture - especially in Vietnam War
>>movies - there are indications that the practice did actually occur.
>>
>>My research has found references to the taking of human war trophies
>>in numerous veteran's memoirs from WWII and Vietnam. I can cite some
>>examples if you want. The practice is also expressly forbidden by
>>numerous military and international legal statutes including the UCMJ
>>(Sec 504c).
>
>Books are full of personal narratives of such. Read what one of the guys who
>has posted periodically on AWV (non-archive of course) has to say:
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++
>From: Ron (B1327@webtv.net)
>Subject: Re: Did AMERICANS HABITUALLY CIT OFF EARS IN VIETNAM? { IS JACK G...
>This is the only article in this thread
>View: Original Format
>Newsgroups: soc.veterans
>Date: 1997/07/23
>
>
>Christ, this is sickening.
>
>Anybody who says there was no ear removal in RVN either was a remf,
>never saw any protracted heavy shit, or is a goddam practicioner of
>revisionist history.
>
>What bullshit. Things like this happened, boys & girls. I aint denying
>it, nor apologizing for it.
>
>It fucking existed. Sometimes, we would even remove the heads from the
>ears before we stored 'em, (In an accessory pack, heavily salted, not no
>damn beer).
>
>Let this be the end of this asinine topic, unless someone can prove that
>it NEVER occurred, which aint possible. It did.
>
>Ron
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++
>Yes sir... This Ronald L. Egan was a member of the infamous 101st Airborne
>Division (B Company, 1/327th Infantry) AND a member of the elite Tiger Force
>which the "Blade" has exposed as executing innocent civilians including
>children... He has written about beheading and slicing throats and how serene
>he felt while his victims bled to death...
>
>And yes... *I* did see trophy ears while I was with the 173rd Airborne Brigade
>in the field...
>
>dino grunt46@hotmail.com
>
I heard stories of soldiers in Vietnam cutting off enemy ears before I
went to 'Nam, and got the impression that it was a common practice. I
spent 10 months in a line unit and do not remember seeing any such
trophies. I am not saying it didn't happen. I heard of an NVA's head
being cut off and put up on a stick outside our perimeter as a
warning, and I heard a previous CO had carried a skull on his ruck, to
let us know what we were after. When going out on an ambush it was
sometimes mentioned by guys along the bunker line, that we should get
some heads, but that was just slang for kill some Gooks. Personally,
I was very careful around dead Gooks and their gear. Two scenes in
two different movies make me remember what my Kit Carson Scout would
impress on me. Don't touch anything that looks out of place. Going
through a bunker complex, for some reason I wanted to touch a C-ration
can. He stopped me. The two scenes I referred to were the soldier
picking up the doll in Full Metal Jacket, and the soldier in Platoon
that picked up the NVA can of ammo with maps etc.
http://www.vietnow.com/artbc.htm

My apologies. It was citing Section 504(c) "Maltreatment of Dead
Bodies" from Chapter 8 of US Field Manual 27-10.

You mentioned that it was actually Article 93 of the UCMJ that applied
to taking war trophies. I've printed it below:

ART. 93. CRUELTY AND MALTREATMENT - Any person subject to this chapter
who is guilty of cruelty toward, or oppression or maltreatment of, any
person subject to his orders shall be punished as a court-martial may
direct.

How does this apply to actions taken against enemy dead?

I have the mummified body, in full battle dress, of a nva regular taken a
the battle of cheu tafat in the fall of 1970. I keep it in my den. I knew
these morticians from the Da Nang mortuary unit who stuffed it for me. I
shipped it to a friend of mine on Okinawa who then shipped it to my parents
via UPS in a crate (they used to write letters to me asking what that stinky
crate was but never peeked inside). Now it stands proudly in my den.

On dark nights, I often put a glass of Jack Daniels in his hand and we drink
a toast (I do the drinking, he does the holding) to days of past glory.
--
If you get what you want, what's to stop you
from asking for more?

"Chris" wrote in message
news:94c14ba1.0402100446.4f7fc41@posting.google.co m...
> "It was a brutal ghastly ritual the likes of which have occurred since
> ancient times on battlefields where the antagonists have possessed a
> profound mutual hatred. It was uncivilized, as is all war, and was
> carried out with that particular savagery that characterized the
> struggle..It wasn't simply souvenir hunting or looting the enemy dead;
> it was more like Indian warriors taking scalps." - Pfc. Eugene B.
> Sledge, With the Old Breed at Peleliu and Okinawa
>
> I am currently conducting research on the collection of war trophies
> or battlefield souvenirs by combat soldiers in WWII, Korea, Vietnam,
> Gulf War, Afghanistan, or Iraq. The research will be used in an
> article or series of articles for general publication.
>
> I am particularly interested in hearing from soldiers or veterans who
> have personal knowledge about the collection of human body parts as
> war trophies.
>
> I understand this is a sensitive and controversial subject. No
> disrespect or insult is intended for those readers who may disagree
> with an article on this subject.
>
> If you can provide background information or would consent to being
> interviewed, please e-mail me at rescon01@tpg.com.au
>
> Thanks