Hanoi Hilton

[SuperScout]

ROOM 7 - HANOI HILTON Of the occupants of Room 7, I know three of them personally: Jack Fellowes was my 'roomie' in VA-85 (FORRESTAL), Pete Schoeffel was in my RAG class at Cecil, and I knew John McCain casually, when he was in VA-65. Room 7, Hanoi Hilton In late 2000, CdrAirGroup (CAG) Jim Stockdale, Room 7 Senior Ranking Officer(SRO) asked his old friend, By Fuller to provide a list of the roommates of Room 7, Hanoi Hilton as of Christmas 1970. The roommates of this room were extraordinary, both at the time of incarceration, and then later in freedom. Room 7 had the first organized church service to be held in the prisons of North Vietnam. Permission was asked for by Stockdale, and twice denied by the Camp Commander. The room was warned not to do it. Room 7 decided to do it anyway. They even had a choir. Their solemn service quickly caught the eye of the guards and authorities. Armed guards rushed into the room to break up the 'ominous' unauthorized meeting. Ringleaders, Risner, Coker a nd Rutledge were led out of the room with guards at each arm (they were headed for more Heartbreak Hotel, solitary confinement and lots of punishment). Bud Day was the one who then jumped up on his bed and started to sing 'The National Anthem' and 'God Bless America.' The entire room burst into song. Then Rooms Six, Five, Four, Three, Two and One joined in succession. These songs of pride and defiance were loud enough to be heard outside the 15-foot walls of the Hanoi Hilton. As Robbie marched out the door, his back straightened with pride. He held his head high. Robbie later recalled his thoughts as his roommates burst out in song, 'I felt like I was nine feet tall and could go bear hunting with a switch.' Thirty one years later, on November 16, 2001 a nine-foot tall bronze statue of Brigadier General Robinson Risner, USAF would be dedicated on the Central plaza of the United States Air Force Academy. To Bud Day (principal speaker), Ross Perot (the sponsor of the project), and dozens of Robbie's Room-Seven roommates at the ceremony, it seemed more fitting to call the statue 'life size.' Photos: Dedication of B/Gen Robbie Risner's Statue - USAFA 16-18 November 2001 CAG, knowing what the VC reaction would be, was heard to remark something to the effect, 'Well, I guess we just can't stand prosperity.' Our camp, yet unnamed, from that moment on became known as 'Camp Unity.' The guards protested, but the songs continued. Shortly thereafter, Vietnamese troops entered each room in force. They had their hats secured with chinstraps in place, they had fixed bayonets, and they were mad! They quickly backed the POWs against the walls with a bayonet in each POW's stomach. The singing immediately ceased as the troops burst through the doors. The VC later claimed that they had put down a riot. It wasn't a real riot, but it was a lot of fun until the soldiers entered the room. Several roommates of Room 7 were jerked out the next day. The next day, Orson Swindle in Room 6 tapped the following message on the wall: 'Damn, you'd have to get in line to get in trouble in that crowd!!' Thanks to By Fuller for the gut work of putting together this fact sheet. Paul Galanti and Mike McGrath assisted. This historical document is dedicated to a fearless leader, Vice Admiral Jim Stockdale, CAG. Here's what the men of Room 7 accomplished: Roster of 'Room 7' on 26 December, 1970: Name/Shoot-down rank/days captive 1. Brady, Al - Cdr, USN - 2236 2. Coker, George - Lt (jg), USN - 2381 3. Coskey, Ken - Cdr, USN - 1650 4. Craner, Bob (Deceased) - Maj, USAF - 1911 5. Crayton, Render - Lt Cdr, USN - 2562 6. Crow, Fred - Lt Col, USAF - 2170 7. Crumpler, Carl - Lt Col, USAF - 1713 8. Daniels, Vern - Cdr, USN - 1966 9. Daughtrey, Norlan - Capt, USAF - 2751 10. Day, Bud - Maj, USAF - 2027 11. Denton, Jerry - Cdr, USN - 2766 12. Doremus, Rob - Lt Cdr, USN - 2729 13. Dramesi, John - Capt, USAF - 2163 14. Dunn Howie (Deceased) - Maj, USMC - 2624 15. Fellowes, Jack - Lt Cdr, USN - 2381 16. Finlay, Jack - Lt Col, USAF - 1781 17. Franke, Bill - Cdr, USN - 2729 18. Fuller, By - Cdr, USN - 2060 19. Gillespie, Chuck (Deceased) - Cdr, USN - 1968 20. Guarino, Larry - Maj, USAF - 2801 21. Gutterson, Laird - Maj, USAF - 1846 22. Hughes, Jim - Lt Col, USAF - 2130 23. James, Charlie - Cdr, USN - 1761 24. Jenkins, Harry (Deceased) - Cdr, USN - 2648 25. Johnson, Sam - Maj, USAF - 2494 26. Kasler, Jim - Maj, USAF - 2400 27. Kirk, Tom - Lt Col, USAF - 1964 28. Lamar, Jim - Lt Col, USAF - 2474 29. Larson, Swede - Lt Col, USAF - 2130 30. Lawrence, Bill - Cdr, USN - 2076 31. Ligon, Vern (Deceased) - Lt Col, USAF - 1942 32. McCain, John - Lt Cdr, USN - 1966 33. McKnight, George - Maj, USAF - 2655 34. Moore, Mel - Cdr, USN - 2185 35. Mulligan, Jim - Cdr, USN - 2521 36. Pollard, Ben - Maj, USAF - 2120 37. Risner, Robbie - Lt Col, USAF - 2706 38. Rivers, Wendy - Lt Cdr, USN - 2715 39. Rutledge, Howie (Deceased) - Cdr, USN - 2633 40. Schoeffel, Pete - Lt Cdr, USN - 1988 41. Shumaker, Bob - Lt Cdr, USN - 2923 42. Stockdale, Jim - Cdr, USN - 2713 43. Stockman, Hervey - Lt Col, USAF - 2093 44. Stratton, Dick - Lt Cdr, USN - 2250 45. Tanner, Nels - Lt Cdr, USN - 2338 46. Webb, Ron - Capt, USAF - 2093 47. Gary Anderson (Deceased) - Lt (jg), USN - 2151 Total days in captivity: 108,116 Man-years in captivity: 296.21 Here's a brief history of the 47 men: 5 made Admiral rank (Stockdale O-9, Lawrence O-9, Shumaker O-8, Denton O-8, Fuller O-8). 1 made General Officer rank (Risner O-7). 40 others stayed in the military and attained the following ranks: USMC: 1 Col - Dunn Navy: 1 Cdr - Coker AF: 1 Lt Col - Daughtrey AF: 19 Colonels - Craner, Crow, Crumpler, Day, Dramesi, Finlay, Guarino, Gutterson, Hughes, Kasler, Johnson, Kirk, Lamar, Larson, Ligon, McKnight, Pollard, Stockman and Webb Navy: 18 Captains - Brady, Coskey, Crayton, Daniels, Doremus, Fellowes, Franke, Gillespie, James, Jenkins, McCain, Moore, Mulligan, Rivers, Rutledge, Schoeffel, Stratton and Tanner 2 became U.S. Congressmen (Johnson, Texas; McCain, Arizona) 2 became U.S. Senators (Denton, Alabama; McCain, Arizona) 1 was a Vice Presidential candidate (Stockdale) 1 is a Presidential candidate (McCain) 2 received the Medal of Honor (Stockdale, Day) Day resumed his career as a lawyer. 3 received the Navy Cross (Denton, Coker, Fuller). Three of the four POWs to receive this award were from this room. Red McDaniel was the fourth POW to receive the award. 4 made escapes. All were recaptured, all were tortured. (Dramesi, Coker, McKnight, Day) 2 were jet aces from the Korean War (Risner: 9 kills in F-86; Kasler: 6 kills in F-86) 1 was the first pilot to fly over Russia in U-2 spy aircraft (Stockman) 1 was shot down 4-15-1944 in Germany on his 26th mission in a P-47 and a POW until April 1945 (Ligon) 1 shot down three German planes during WW II flying British aircraft. Flew 156 missions in Sicily, India, China and Indo-China (Guarino) 1 flew 62 missions in Korea War. Got credit for one kill, one damaged and one probable kill against MIG-15s (Johnson) 7 received the Air Force Cross (Kasler 3 awards; Risner 2 awards; Dramesi 2 awards, Day, Kirk, Guarino and McKnight each received one award) 4 were Navy test pilots (Stockdale, Lawrence, Gillespie, & Franke) 1 flew with the Thunderbirds (Johnson) 11 were USNA graduates (Brady '51, Denton '47, Fellowes '56, Fuller '51, Gillespie '51, Lawrence '51, McCain '58, Rivers '52, Schoeffel '54, Shumaker '56, & Stockdale '47) 2 were Landing Signal Officers (LSOs) - (Stockdale, Tanner) 1 escaped the B-52 community and got into combat flying the F-105G (Larson) 1 has a daughter who is an astronaut, gone into space three times (789 hours). She is presently in training as a crewmember of the International Space Station. (Lawrence) 1 was a Navy Air Wing Commander (CAG): (Stockdale, (COMAIRGRU 16) 1 commanded a Navy Carrier, USS America. Later became Battle Group Commander CARGRU 4 Commander (Fuller) 10 were Squadron Commanders (Coskey (VA-85), Day (TBD), Denton (VA-75), Franke, Fuller (VA-76), Gillespie, Jenkins VA-163), Lawrence (VF-143), Ligon (11th TRS) and Larson (469th TFS) when shot down), Schoeffel (VA-83) 5 were Squadron Executive Officers (Daniels, Moore, Mulligan, Rutledge and Brady). They were shot down before they could make Squadron Commander. 10 Authored books: Day: Return With Honor Denton: When Hell Was In Session Dramesi: Code of Honor Guarino: A POW's Story: 2801 Days in Hanoi Johnson: Captive Warriors: A Vietnam POW's Story McCain: Faith of My Fathers Mulligan: The Hanoi Commitment Risner: The Passing of the Night Rutledge: In the Presence of Mine Enemies Stockdale: Courage Under Fire; In Love and War; A Vietnam Experience; Thoughts of a Philosophical Fighter Pilot 4 became Presidents/Commandants/Superintendents of institutions of Higher learning: (Stockdale: President of the Citidel and President of the Naval War College; Lawrence: Superintendent of the USNA; Shumaker: Superintendent of the Naval PostgraduateSchool; and (TBD); Denton: Commandant of Armed Forces Staff College) 2 built their own airplanes: (Jenkins: Long EZ; Shumaker: Glassair) Pollard is currently flying sail planes. 1 was the first active duty Naval Aviator to fly Mach II (Lawrence) 1 was first Naval Aviator to land on an aircraft carrier in 0/0 fog with a newly developed Aircraft Carrier Landing System (Gillespie). Yes, it was an emergency low fuel state! 2 were Naval aviators who were in the final selection groups (before shootdown) for the Mercury Astronaut Program (Lawrence, Shumaker) Many of the members of Room 7 either served during wars prior to Vietnam, or who saw combat in theatres other than Vietnam. WW II: Vern Ligon: USA Air Corps, 25 missions, P-47 pilot, POW in Stalag Luft 1,1944-45, escaped once, recaptured. Larry Guarino: USA Air Corps, 156 missions in Sicily, India, China and Indo-China. Spitfires. Hervey Stockman: USA Air Corps. 68 missions, P-51. Jim Kasler: USA Air Corps, 7 missions as tail gunner, B-29. Harry Jenkins and Gordon Larson were Navy V5 cadets and Fred Crow was an Army Air Corps aviation cadet when WW II ended. Bud Day: Corporal, USMC, 30 months in south and central Pacific, April 1942 - November 1945. By Fuller and Carl Crumpler: Enlisted in US Navy summer of 1945. Saw boot camp by the end of WW II. Fred Crow and Al Brady: were Navy dependents at Pearl Harbor, December 7,1941. Korea: Robby Risner: USAF, 108 missions, F-86. MIG Ace with 9 kills. Jim Kasler: USAF, 100 missions, F-86, MIG Ace with 6 kills. Howie Rutledge: USN, 200 missions, F9F-2 as a Flying Midshipman. Harry Jenkins: Served aboard USS Fred T. Berry (DD-141) off coast of Korea. as a Flying Midshipman. Tom Kirk: Flew missions in Korea (we need more information from Tom). Larry Guarino: USAF, Air Defense Alert missions. Jim Lamar: USAF, 100 missions in F-80 and P-51. Wendy Rivers: Served on a destroyer off the coast of Korea. Laird Gutterson: USAF, flew 60 missions, P-51. Verlyne Daniels: Flew AD-4 missions, March - August 1953. Sam Johnson: USAF, flew 62 missions, F-86, 1 kill, 1 probable, 1 damaged against MIG 15s. Bud Day: USAF, air defense missions, F-84s. Bill Lawrence: (F2H-3) and By Fuller (F9F-5) arrived off the coast of Korea in October 1953. They were flying off the USS Oriskany. Too late the war was over! Fred Crow: Had various commands stateside during the Korean War. Carl Crumpler: Flew F-86s at George AFB. War was over too soon for him to participate. Magnificent men, whether in a cockpit, in a cell, or at a desk. Provided to show that, regardless of the circumstances, some are never defeated, only temporarily delayed. All of this and some SOB says, 'Getting shot down and captured does not qualify someone to be president' - but supposedly another with 143 days in congress does qualify? What a country - but how long will we stand at this rate?'

[pete v]

to belong to a country that produces men like these.

I wonder if we are the same country now?

[Packo]

What Pete said!

Pack

[VIETNAM 1968]

Great posting Super Scout. A lot of very valuable information contained in it. This list clearly shows that some of America's Finest were held as POWs.

All that I might add is that the current Democratic candidate for President IS NOT FIT TO BREATHE THE SAME AIR AS THESE VERY BRAVE MEN BREATHE. John McCain clearly is more suited, and with far more experience, to be President in these very trying times. He is a TRUE HERO to me--AND WILL ALWAYS BE.

To all of my Vietnam Veteran Brothers and Sisters I am very proud to again wish you all a MOST SINCERE and HEART FELT:

WELCOME HOME:


VIETNAM 1968

[1CAVCCO15MED]

What is really sad is the person who said that statement was a retired general, Wesley Clark.

[SuperScout]

Originally Posted by 1CAVCCO15MED

What is really sad is the person who said that statement was a retired general, Wesley Clark.

Not really so sad, but utterly predictable. I first met Clark at the National Training Center, and was immediately struck by his raging pomposity. He had tied his career to Slick Willie, and rose through the ranks to become one of the most reviled officers in the US Army. While at a recent work session at Ft. Leavenworth, KS, I met some other retired officers who had had the displeasure of working with or for him; to a man, they all despised him as imperious, ungrateful, narcissistic and deceitful. It is obvious that he's lobbying to become SecDef under Junior.

[SEATJERKER]

...

...Ditto 68

...There is no comparisions between the two men in this President's election,...

..."In these very trying times" is an understatement,...

... There is no doubt in my mind, and heart that no matter what the economic situation of this Nation is, should the feces hit the fan, John McCain has been there/done that, and has the wisdom, and experience to do what SHOULD be done,...

...I do not disrepect the other party, however, I just don't think his level of experience in the life of politics, world affairs, or the military can hold a candle to John McCain,...

...

[sn-e3]

A American tax payer voting for Obama, would be like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders

[Packo]

Thank you so much for that laugh this morning! It couldn't be said better.

Pack