Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns

The Honolulu Advertiser

Sunday, January 4, 2004

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...html/?print=on



Group outlines Stryker concerns

By Karen Blakeman

Advertiser Staff Writer

The Army is speeding ahead with its plans to

install a Stryker Brigade in Hawai'i, giving only

lip service to the impact that the vehicles and

required training scenarios are likely to have on

the state's environment, the Sierra Club charged

yesterday in a 32-page letter.

"We are concerned that the Army, the Pentagon and

our elected leaders are viewing the environmental

review process for this project as a mere

formality instead of using it as the

decision-making tool it is meant to be," said

Jeff Mikulina, director of the club's Hawai'i

chapter.

The Sierra Club also accused the Army of

expanding its plans for the Stryker Brigade

without properly studying the effect those

changes were likely to have on the environment.

It contends that although the Army has made

progress in its stewardship of land it uses in

the state, problems with inadequate cleanup at

old sites and issues such as the recent fire in

Makua Valley do not bode well for the impact of

the new Stryker Brigade.

The Army said it would carefully review the Sierra Club's comments.

The Sierra Club letter was submitted to the Army

as a response to the government's three-volume,

1,500-page draft environmental impact statement,

which was released Sept. 30. Yesterday was the

last day for the public to submit responses.

"The Army is pleased the Sierra Club provided

comments on the draft environmental impact

statement," said Troy Griffin, spokesman for the

25th Infantry Division (Light). "These comments

will be reviewed, considered and addressed with

the same deliberate process as the other comments

on the document received during the public

comment period."

Griffin would not comment on the specific

allegations by the Sierra Club, saying the issues

were better addressed through the environmental

impact review process.

The Stryker is a 19-ton armored vehicle that is

light enough to airlift, has eight wheels instead

of treads and is said to be extremely

maneuverable. Stryker Brigade combat teams

include 3,600 soldiers designed to be deployed

anywhere in the world within 96 hours.

Stryker Brigades are the Army's answer to critics

who, at the end of the 20th century, contended

the service was incapable of deploying fighting

units quickly enough to respond to scenarios

likely to arise in the 21st century. The first

Stryker brigade, out of Fort Lewis, Wash., is

being tested in Iraq.

It was reported last month that Secretary of

Defense Donald Rumsfeld has approved a Stryker

Brigade for Hawai'i.

The Stryker Brigade is expected to be operational

in 2007, equipped with new lightweight 155 mm

howitzers and new Comanche helicopters scheduled

to be in service in 2009. The Stryker would be

the 2nd Brigade of the 25th Infantry Division

(Light) and be based at Schofield Barracks.

State elected officials, including Sen. Dan

Inouye and Rep. Neil Abercrombie, have lauded the

Stryker Brigade as a means of ensuring a

continued military presence in Hawai'i and an

economic impetus for the state. The Sierra letter

also points out that government money has been

set aside for the improvements that would support

the Stryker, including upgrades to Hickam Air

Force Base, which would transport deployed

vehicles by C-17 aircraft.



These statements and actions seem to indicate

that the military plans to go forward with the

Stryker Brigade, regardless of the findings in

the environmental studies, Mikulina said.

The Sierra Club also said that training with

Comanche helicopters and 155 mm howitzers was not

considered in studies leading to the military's

original environmental impact statement and

should have been. A new or amended draft

environmental impact statement should be prepared

and submitted for public comment, the letter said.

The Army will review the public comments it has

received before deciding whether to issue a final

environmental impact statement.

Reach Karen Blakeman at 535-2430 or kblakeman@honoluluadvertiser.com.

© COPYRIGHT 2004 The Honolulu Advertiser, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.

"redvet" wrote in message
news:vvlq8d6br2q389@corp.supernews.com...
> The Honolulu Advertiser
>
> Sunday, January 4, 2004

Oh, shut the hell up, Pinkster. Nobody wants to see you right now. Bill's
back.

Rita

You -DO- realize that more and more people are beginning to figure out what
the real agenda of the "Sierra Club" ( fuck me, ain't the Sierra's in
California and Mexico? Then just what the fuck is a "Sierra Club" doing in
Hawai'i? ) and the rest of the radical "environmentalist" gangs actually is.
In greater and greater numbers WE, the people, are telling them to fuck off
eat shit and die choking.

--
Don Thompson

"The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before
them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."-
Thucydides

"Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom:
Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."-
Albert Camus


"redvet" wrote in message
news:vvlq8d6br2q389@corp.supernews.com...
> The Honolulu Advertiser
>
> Sunday, January 4, 2004
>
>
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...html/?print=on
>
>
>
> Group outlines Stryker concerns
>
> By Karen Blakeman
>
> Advertiser Staff Writer
>
> The Army is speeding ahead with its plans to
>
> install a Stryker Brigade in Hawai'i, giving only
>
> lip service to the impact that the vehicles and
>
> required training scenarios are likely to have on
>
> the state's environment, the Sierra Club charged
>
> yesterday in a 32-page letter.
>
> "We are concerned that the Army, the Pentagon and
>
> our elected leaders are viewing the environmental
>
> review process for this project as a mere
>
> formality instead of using it as the
>
> decision-making tool it is meant to be," said
>
> Jeff Mikulina, director of the club's Hawai'i
>
> chapter.
>
> The Sierra Club also accused the Army of
>
> expanding its plans for the Stryker Brigade
>
> without properly studying the effect those
>
> changes were likely to have on the environment.
>
> It contends that although the Army has made
>
> progress in its stewardship of land it uses in
>
> the state, problems with inadequate cleanup at
>
> old sites and issues such as the recent fire in
>
> Makua Valley do not bode well for the impact of
>
> the new Stryker Brigade.
>
> The Army said it would carefully review the Sierra Club's comments.
>
> The Sierra Club letter was submitted to the Army
>
> as a response to the government's three-volume,
>
> 1,500-page draft environmental impact statement,
>
> which was released Sept. 30. Yesterday was the
>
> last day for the public to submit responses.
>
> "The Army is pleased the Sierra Club provided
>
> comments on the draft environmental impact
>
> statement," said Troy Griffin, spokesman for the
>
> 25th Infantry Division (Light). "These comments
>
> will be reviewed, considered and addressed with
>
> the same deliberate process as the other comments
>
> on the document received during the public
>
> comment period."
>
> Griffin would not comment on the specific
>
> allegations by the Sierra Club, saying the issues
>
> were better addressed through the environmental
>
> impact review process.
>
> The Stryker is a 19-ton armored vehicle that is
>
> light enough to airlift, has eight wheels instead
>
> of treads and is said to be extremely
>
> maneuverable. Stryker Brigade combat teams
>
> include 3,600 soldiers designed to be deployed
>
> anywhere in the world within 96 hours.
>
> Stryker Brigades are the Army's answer to critics
>
> who, at the end of the 20th century, contended
>
> the service was incapable of deploying fighting
>
> units quickly enough to respond to scenarios
>
> likely to arise in the 21st century. The first
>
> Stryker brigade, out of Fort Lewis, Wash., is
>
> being tested in Iraq.
>
> It was reported last month that Secretary of
>
> Defense Donald Rumsfeld has approved a Stryker
>
> Brigade for Hawai'i.
>
> The Stryker Brigade is expected to be operational
>
> in 2007, equipped with new lightweight 155 mm
>
> howitzers and new Comanche helicopters scheduled
>
> to be in service in 2009. The Stryker would be
>
> the 2nd Brigade of the 25th Infantry Division
>
> (Light) and be based at Schofield Barracks.
>
> State elected officials, including Sen. Dan
>
> Inouye and Rep. Neil Abercrombie, have lauded the
>
> Stryker Brigade as a means of ensuring a
>
> continued military presence in Hawai'i and an
>
> economic impetus for the state. The Sierra letter
>
> also points out that government money has been
>
> set aside for the improvements that would support
>
> the Stryker, including upgrades to Hickam Air
>
> Force Base, which would transport deployed
>
> vehicles by C-17 aircraft.
>
>
>
> These statements and actions seem to indicate
>
> that the military plans to go forward with the
>
> Stryker Brigade, regardless of the findings in
>
> the environmental studies, Mikulina said.
>
> The Sierra Club also said that training with
>
> Comanche helicopters and 155 mm howitzers was not
>
> considered in studies leading to the military's
>
> original environmental impact statement and
>
> should have been. A new or amended draft
>
> environmental impact statement should be prepared
>
> and submitted for public comment, the letter said.
>
> The Army will review the public comments it has
>
> received before deciding whether to issue a final
>
> environmental impact statement.
>
> Reach Karen Blakeman at 535-2430 or kblakeman@honoluluadvertiser.com.
>
> © COPYRIGHT 2004 The Honolulu Advertiser, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.
>
>
>

"Don T" wrote in message
news:C6CKb.23110$lo3.11673@newsread2.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
> You -DO- realize that more and more people are beginning to figure out
what
> the real agenda of the "Sierra Club" ( fuck me, ain't the Sierra's in
> California and Mexico? Then just what the fuck is a "Sierra Club" doing in
> Hawai'i? ) and the rest of the radical "environmentalist" gangs actually
is.
> In greater and greater numbers WE, the people, are telling them to fuck
off
> eat shit and die choking.
>
> --
> Don Thompson
>
> "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is
before
> them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."-
> Thucydides
>
> "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom:
> Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."-
> Albert Camus
>
Aloha Don,
How nice to hear from you. Well - we do have a republican governor, who
is pro-choice,out here. Do you believe she might be commie? I have always
viewed the "Sierra Club" as fairly conservative in its orientation. "Radical
environmentalist gangs" is term best suited for a group like the 'ELF'. In
any event...I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism in
the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different ways.
March 20th will be a good gauge as to where the anti-war movement is
headed. Mr. Mann posted last week about how the out-of -power politicians
would use anti-war groups to front for them (my interpretation of his post).
While that position is a bit harsh, I do think there will be a great deal of
coordination between the two. This is one very large difference from
Vietnam...as it is increasingly referred to. It took until very late in 1969
for the various anti-war groups to work together, achieving a degree of
coordination and success. Now we are witnessing that type of anti-war
support for a war which is barely a year old. In March, if that analysis is
correct, we should see the effect of those efforts . It begs an entire
series of questions as well. For instance, will the newscasts devote more
time to the demonstrations? Does this create a larger base of support? (Not
to worry Don, you'll always have 'Fox'.)
Oh well, maybe you were thinking of a different "Sierra Club" then the
one I'm familiar with. - redvet, who also thinks Albert Camus has its
moments

redvet wrote:

>
> Aloha Don,
> How nice to hear from you. Well - we do have a republican governor, who
> is pro-choice,out here. Do you believe she might be commie?
Jeffords used to be a Republican before he became a turn coat, so you
socialists have no political labels other than expediency.

I have always
> viewed the "Sierra Club" as fairly conservative in its orientation.
I'm sure Lenin thought Trotsky was fairly conservative and for somebody
as far off the left end of the political spectrum as you, I can see your
point.

"Radical
> environmentalist gangs" is term best suited for a group like the 'ELF'. In
> any event...I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism in
> the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different ways.
1. ELF? Is that something like ALF, but works out of Mordor?
2. I find it less than interesting, since it's the same set of
delusional people.

Al Zeller

Yeah. ELF ( Environmental "Liberation" Front ) and ALF ( Animal
"Liberation" Front ) are both on the FBI terrorist organization list. Both
are made up of members of other, more "mainstream", environmental cults.
Environmentalism is the religion of the socialist wing of the democrat
party. It is taking over as the only religion the democrat party is willing
to tolerate.

--
Don Thompson

"The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before
them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."-
Thucydides

"Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom:
Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."-
Albert Camus


"Al Zeller" wrote in message
news:btfflg$27dl$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu...
> redvet wrote:
>
> >
> > Aloha Don,
> > How nice to hear from you. Well - we do have a republican governor,
who
> > is pro-choice,out here. Do you believe she might be commie?
> Jeffords used to be a Republican before he became a turn coat, so you
> socialists have no political labels other than expediency.
>
> I have always
> > viewed the "Sierra Club" as fairly conservative in its orientation.
> I'm sure Lenin thought Trotsky was fairly conservative and for somebody
> as far off the left end of the political spectrum as you, I can see your
> point.
>
> "Radical
> > environmentalist gangs" is term best suited for a group like the 'ELF'.
In
> > any event...I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism
in
> > the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different
ways.
> 1. ELF? Is that something like ALF, but works out of Mordor?
> 2. I find it less than interesting, since it's the same set of
> delusional people.
>
> Al Zeller
>
>

What do they coordinate - the sale of Cambodian red in Hawaii or a Hawaiian
home grown for the spaced out idiots in the antiwar movement. Give us a
break red, no gives a crap what the antiwar activists are doing in Hawaii
except those who continue to live in their spaced out Disneyland world.
------------------

"redvet" wrote in message
news:vvmc34cc8hhc64@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Don T" wrote in message
> news:C6CKb.23110$lo3.11673@newsread2.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
> > You -DO- realize that more and more people are beginning to figure out
> what
> > the real agenda of the "Sierra Club" ( fuck me, ain't the Sierra's in
> > California and Mexico? Then just what the fuck is a "Sierra Club" doing
in
> > Hawai'i? ) and the rest of the radical "environmentalist" gangs actually
> is.
> > In greater and greater numbers WE, the people, are telling them to fuck
> off
> > eat shit and die choking.
> >
> > --
> > Don Thompson
> >
> > "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is
> before
> > them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."-
> > Thucydides
> >
> > "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom:
> > Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."-
> > Albert Camus
> >
> Aloha Don,
> How nice to hear from you. Well - we do have a republican governor,
who
> is pro-choice,out here. Do you believe she might be commie? I have always
> viewed the "Sierra Club" as fairly conservative in its orientation.
"Radical
> environmentalist gangs" is term best suited for a group like the 'ELF'. In
> any event...I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism
in
> the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different ways.
> March 20th will be a good gauge as to where the anti-war movement is
> headed. Mr. Mann posted last week about how the out-of -power politicians
> would use anti-war groups to front for them (my interpretation of his
post).
> While that position is a bit harsh, I do think there will be a great deal
of
> coordination between the two. This is one very large difference from
> Vietnam...as it is increasingly referred to. It took until very late in
1969
> for the various anti-war groups to work together, achieving a degree of
> coordination and success. Now we are witnessing that type of anti-war
> support for a war which is barely a year old. In March, if that analysis
is
> correct, we should see the effect of those efforts . It begs an entire
> series of questions as well. For instance, will the newscasts devote more
> time to the demonstrations? Does this create a larger base of support?
(Not
> to worry Don, you'll always have 'Fox'.)
> Oh well, maybe you were thinking of a different "Sierra Club" then the
> one I'm familiar with. - redvet, who also thinks Albert Camus has its
> moments
>
>

Very good Don ! Good description for the ELF, we see them active on the
East Coast as well, most are under psychiatric care - a so called extension
of the gay rights movement which feels they have the god given right to
destroy other peoples private property and carry out acts of a terrorist
nature every time they have a case of the PMS in the mouth. It would not
come as a surprise that they are directly linked to the large number of
Forrest fires in some states that have destroyed entire communities.
Hopefully, the Federal government will build a few more federal psychiatric
facilities because there is not enough room in St. Elizabeth Psychiatric
hospital to house all of them because they are all going to be heading to a
Federal institution for the criminal and mentally insane eventually.
---------------

"Don T" wrote in message
news:fIHKb.23518$lo3.903@newsread2.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> Yeah. ELF ( Environmental "Liberation" Front ) and ALF ( Animal
> "Liberation" Front ) are both on the FBI terrorist organization list. Both
> are made up of members of other, more "mainstream", environmental cults.
> Environmentalism is the religion of the socialist wing of the democrat
> party. It is taking over as the only religion the democrat party is
willing
> to tolerate.
>
> --
> Don Thompson
>
> "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is
before
> them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."-
> Thucydides
>
> "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom:
> Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."-
> Albert Camus
>
>
> "Al Zeller" wrote in message
> news:btfflg$27dl$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu...
> > redvet wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Aloha Don,
> > > How nice to hear from you. Well - we do have a republican
governor,
> who
> > > is pro-choice,out here. Do you believe she might be commie?
> > Jeffords used to be a Republican before he became a turn coat, so you
> > socialists have no political labels other than expediency.
> >
> > I have always
> > > viewed the "Sierra Club" as fairly conservative in its orientation.
> > I'm sure Lenin thought Trotsky was fairly conservative and for somebody
> > as far off the left end of the political spectrum as you, I can see your
> > point.
> >
> > "Radical
> > > environmentalist gangs" is term best suited for a group like the
'ELF'.
> In
> > > any event...I found it interesting how opposition to overall
militarism
> in
> > > the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different
> ways.
> > 1. ELF? Is that something like ALF, but works out of Mordor?
> > 2. I find it less than interesting, since it's the same set of
> > delusional people.
> >
> > Al Zeller
> >
> >
>
>

Environmentalist gangs ! I thought that was the code word for the Marijuana
growers association - commonly referred to by law enforcement experts as
environmental space cadets !
--------------

"Don T" wrote in message
news:C6CKb.23110$lo3.11673@newsread2.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
> You -DO- realize that more and more people are beginning to figure out
what
> the real agenda of the "Sierra Club" ( fuck me, ain't the Sierra's in
> California and Mexico? Then just what the fuck is a "Sierra Club" doing in
> Hawai'i? ) and the rest of the radical "environmentalist" gangs actually
is.
> In greater and greater numbers WE, the people, are telling them to fuck
off
> eat shit and die choking.
>
> --
> Don Thompson
>
> "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is
before
> them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."-
> Thucydides
>
> "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom:
> Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."-
> Albert Camus
>
>
> "redvet" wrote in message
> news:vvlq8d6br2q389@corp.supernews.com...
> > The Honolulu Advertiser
> >
> > Sunday, January 4, 2004
> >
> >
>
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar....html/?print=o
n
> >
> >
> >
> > Group outlines Stryker concerns
> >
> > By Karen Blakeman
> >
> > Advertiser Staff Writer
> >
> > The Army is speeding ahead with its plans to
> >
> > install a Stryker Brigade in Hawai'i, giving only
> >
> > lip service to the impact that the vehicles and
> >
> > required training scenarios are likely to have on
> >
> > the state's environment, the Sierra Club charged
> >
> > yesterday in a 32-page letter.
> >
> > "We are concerned that the Army, the Pentagon and
> >
> > our elected leaders are viewing the environmental
> >
> > review process for this project as a mere
> >
> > formality instead of using it as the
> >
> > decision-making tool it is meant to be," said
> >
> > Jeff Mikulina, director of the club's Hawai'i
> >
> > chapter.
> >
> > The Sierra Club also accused the Army of
> >
> > expanding its plans for the Stryker Brigade
> >
> > without properly studying the effect those
> >
> > changes were likely to have on the environment.
> >
> > It contends that although the Army has made
> >
> > progress in its stewardship of land it uses in
> >
> > the state, problems with inadequate cleanup at
> >
> > old sites and issues such as the recent fire in
> >
> > Makua Valley do not bode well for the impact of
> >
> > the new Stryker Brigade.
> >
> > The Army said it would carefully review the Sierra Club's comments.
> >
> > The Sierra Club letter was submitted to the Army
> >
> > as a response to the government's three-volume,
> >
> > 1,500-page draft environmental impact statement,
> >
> > which was released Sept. 30. Yesterday was the
> >
> > last day for the public to submit responses.
> >
> > "The Army is pleased the Sierra Club provided
> >
> > comments on the draft environmental impact
> >
> > statement," said Troy Griffin, spokesman for the
> >
> > 25th Infantry Division (Light). "These comments
> >
> > will be reviewed, considered and addressed with
> >
> > the same deliberate process as the other comments
> >
> > on the document received during the public
> >
> > comment period."
> >
> > Griffin would not comment on the specific
> >
> > allegations by the Sierra Club, saying the issues
> >
> > were better addressed through the environmental
> >
> > impact review process.
> >
> > The Stryker is a 19-ton armored vehicle that is
> >
> > light enough to airlift, has eight wheels instead
> >
> > of treads and is said to be extremely
> >
> > maneuverable. Stryker Brigade combat teams
> >
> > include 3,600 soldiers designed to be deployed
> >
> > anywhere in the world within 96 hours.
> >
> > Stryker Brigades are the Army's answer to critics
> >
> > who, at the end of the 20th century, contended
> >
> > the service was incapable of deploying fighting
> >
> > units quickly enough to respond to scenarios
> >
> > likely to arise in the 21st century. The first
> >
> > Stryker brigade, out of Fort Lewis, Wash., is
> >
> > being tested in Iraq.
> >
> > It was reported last month that Secretary of
> >
> > Defense Donald Rumsfeld has approved a Stryker
> >
> > Brigade for Hawai'i.
> >
> > The Stryker Brigade is expected to be operational
> >
> > in 2007, equipped with new lightweight 155 mm
> >
> > howitzers and new Comanche helicopters scheduled
> >
> > to be in service in 2009. The Stryker would be
> >
> > the 2nd Brigade of the 25th Infantry Division
> >
> > (Light) and be based at Schofield Barracks.
> >
> > State elected officials, including Sen. Dan
> >
> > Inouye and Rep. Neil Abercrombie, have lauded the
> >
> > Stryker Brigade as a means of ensuring a
> >
> > continued military presence in Hawai'i and an
> >
> > economic impetus for the state. The Sierra letter
> >
> > also points out that government money has been
> >
> > set aside for the improvements that would support
> >
> > the Stryker, including upgrades to Hickam Air
> >
> > Force Base, which would transport deployed
> >
> > vehicles by C-17 aircraft.
> >
> >
> >
> > These statements and actions seem to indicate
> >
> > that the military plans to go forward with the
> >
> > Stryker Brigade, regardless of the findings in
> >
> > the environmental studies, Mikulina said.
> >
> > The Sierra Club also said that training with
> >
> > Comanche helicopters and 155 mm howitzers was not
> >
> > considered in studies leading to the military's
> >
> > original environmental impact statement and
> >
> > should have been. A new or amended draft
> >
> > environmental impact statement should be prepared
> >
> > and submitted for public comment, the letter said.
> >
> > The Army will review the public comments it has
> >
> > received before deciding whether to issue a final
> >
> > environmental impact statement.
> >
> > Reach Karen Blakeman at 535-2430 or kblakeman@honoluluadvertiser.com.
> >
> > © COPYRIGHT 2004 The Honolulu Advertiser, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

In article ,
"redvet" wrote:

> I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism in
> the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different ways.

The same differences appear in the approval of the military in
Hawaii -- such as the statements at the recent hearings by the local
chapter of the Nature Conservancy approving of the Army's EIS,
commending and endorsing the Army's demonstrated commitment to
preserving the environment.

Which group reflects the opinion of the vast majority?

Get over it Scotty. You've no more than a handful of supporters
compared to those who approve of the military's presence here in
Hawaii. You really should get out more to see what people outside
your small circle of radical wackos are thinking.

As always,

-Dai Uy

--