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Old 08-10-2003, 12:01 PM
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Default The Founders Legacy?

Please go to:

http://www.newamericancentury.org

For their reasons, a revolution against colonial Imperialism was fought and won?
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Old 01-30-2004, 10:12 AM
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I am familiar with the site you list above. I am not familiar with the reasons for your comment.
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:02 AM
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Default Sir Blue

Kindly elucidate why the New American Century Project is supposed to be so dastardly. As part of their statement of purpose, I've copied the following:

? we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;

? we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

? we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

? we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Frankly, I find nothing about these statements to be threatening, exorbitant, or unworthy of our adoption and implementation.

Your thoughts...........
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:54 AM
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Scout and Coaling -
I'd forgotten having posted that thread, so thank you for reminding me.

I cannot disagree with the selected statements of purpose you posted from PFNAC... if that were all they propose it would be more or less fine, with just about any American.

What I am concerned about would generally be characterized as follows:

1. Any trend amongst our government or its advisors to extend and strengthen American hegemony in other lands.
2. Any similar trend to impose American will where it is not wanted or needed, including all efforts to do so under specious guises, false or misleading evidence, and to take military or econmic sanctions action in one way while claiming it is being taken for a completely different, albeit legal, reason.
3. The confluence of "New World Order", NAFTA, GATT, and "World Economy" etc. with arrogance and global oppression of peoples at different stages of development than we are "for their own good" when, often, it is mainly for OUR own good.
4. The refusal of our government and its senior advisors to be a full partner in other global enterprises seen as fit for enjoyment by 9/10ths of world governments, allies and friends alike. An example would be the World Court.
5. The historical trend that governments who tend to act in this way often, if not always, end up being extremely dictatorial, wasteful of resources (human and natural) and deceitful... which (in brief) usually portends their downfall at an unexpected rate and time.

This thread was posted on Revolutionary War forum on purpose, as it is not intended for political debate, but rather for full consideration in the light of our Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence and all that has happened in our common and civil law since the founding of our nation.

It is not meant as a challenge to the free speech rights of PFNAC, nor even to the content of their messages. However, as deep as I have been able to peer into ALL their holdings forth, and when those are taken with a clear assessment of the names of their members (whose influence upon American foreign and domestic policy is indubitable)... mine is merely the question:

For their reasons a war against colonial Imperialism was fought and won?

It is seeming to me that much of what PFNAC advocates amounts to a form of Imperialism which, I believe, Americans ought to think long and hard before endorsing... it comes cloaked in comfortable words, as do all such. So, I am examining it, nothing more.

Thank you for spending time doing so as well.
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Old 01-31-2004, 03:47 PM
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Scout -
Here's another piece of that thought... for your consideration, as it has been my own.

Since the colonies saw fit to separate themselves from the Loyalists, for good and sure reason... what were those reasons?

Might it be, possibly, American today is becoming the very entity which our founding warriors saw fit to resist.
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Old 01-31-2004, 05:50 PM
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Default Sir Blue

Besides the obvious - religious freedom, bad balance between taxation and representation, and a few more cogent reasons, I truly believe that a Divine Purpose was behind the raison d'ete for the US of A. Never before had the world seen what ultimately transpired here - a blessed and inspired document that governs us, has withstood the test of time with only minimal corrections, a people willing and able to assimilate practically anybody, and driving all this was the lovely engine of capitalism. Lest anyone think that I'm viewing the past 200+ years through rose tinted glasses, I'm well aware of the imperfections with the Constitution, flaws that certainly aren't fatal. There is nothing comparable, and older nations and newly created entities strive to emulate what we have done. We have not been perfect in our assimilation endeavors, and some distance yet to go, but our efforts are still far ahead of even the nearest competitor, whoever that might be. And for all the warts and ills of capitalism, it still is the primal force behind all of our accomplishments.

Add these three imperatives - a legal system, a homogenous ethos, and an economic system that rewards accomplishments - to the one critical factor, a strong Judeo-Christian foundation, and you have the making of a genuine miracle. What has happened in the last 200+ years have been efforts to chisel away at the very bases that hold everything else up. Judicial activism, racial tensions and bigotry, and socialist assaults on capitalism have weakened our foundations. Sadly, the Judeo-Christian part of our heritage has encountered and endured the worst assaults. Only when and if the degree of damage to these four critical pillars is perceived by a sufficient number of concerned folks can determine if resistance is called for; we may be reaching critical mass.
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Old 01-31-2004, 07:31 PM
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Everything you said here (and elsewhere) Emperor... it's just I am wondering some (not all TOO urgently :-), whether PFNAC has our similar idea in mind... that's all... it's just a question, not an answer,

We may be reaching critical mass, yessir, could be.
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Old 02-01-2004, 09:29 AM
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SuperScout,

Religious freedom wasn't really a factor in the American Revolution. Virtually every form of Christianity was being practiced here, including Catholicism as well as some well established synagogues. Philadelphia was known as a very tolerant city for the practice of religion.

Taxation without representation was a popular rallying cry for those with a mind towards independence but, since Americans were taxed well below the level of Englishmen in the mother country, that rang a bit hollow. Like you said, there were several reason for rebelling. One was that, starting in 1750, Parliament outlawed American manufacturing of consumer goods. Iron works were shut down, glass factories closed, and any and all goods imported into the colonies had to be through the British East or West India Companies or the Hudson Bay Company. This meant that, no matter if the colonists wanted goods manufactured in another country, they had to buy them through English agents, thereby increasing the costs. Its no wonder that smuggling became an important way of life. England wanted America to be a source for raw materials to be sent to English factories to be sold back to Americans and other foreign markets as English goods.

America was also used as a dumping ground for the English court system. Convicts were routinely sent to America either as slaves or indentured servants (like Australia after the Rev War). In general, the colonists, despite only wanting to be considered good Englishmen, were treated like 2nd class citizens. I've read some of George Washington's journals and in one he tells of the time one of his English cousins arrived for a visit during the era between wars. George was fanatical and proud about being an Englishman, even having all his clothes made by tailors in England and importing many of his equine tack from London. His cousin, on seeing George's set of carriage horses and livery, remarked that the horses weren't "really matched" and the carriage and livery weren't made the King's appointed tack maker. George wasn't amused. So it wasn't so much the taxes as it was the treatment.
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