who is better at national security the rep.or the dem.

[blues clues]

For the past few weeks I've been reading storys about a leak about a CIA op. I've been waitting for someone on the PF to bring this subject up as of today nothing. Oh, where is the great superscout with all is talk about how great the conv. are at national security where is HC, Gimpy and all the other folks that love this country and don't like where it's going. I've keep quit as long as I could about this break down in secrity the reporter who wrote this story should tell who told him this name and this person should go to jail for a nice long time and if someone has died because of this leak they should be shot.something is very wrong.
razz

[BLUEHAWK]

Razz -
It appears that Novak did NOT say Mrs. Wilson was a "covert" CIA operator, but came about as close to doing so as is possible (my opinion), and was a tad careless/sensationalistic in his choice of words.

However, evidently the Dem push for a Justice Dept. investigation is motivated more by election season politics, in this case, than by fact finding.

It is troubling if someone in the white house did put out a leak for the purpose of discrediting one of their perceived opponents. I'd like to see that part of the story explained in more detail, but only Novak can help us out to save the time and cost of all out investigations. My opinion... the president's advisors were WAY out of line to have put anything whatsoever about Iraq getting yellow cake from Niger in the first place, without substantially more proof than they had. I really cannot stomach Bush's advisory team, and that includes practically ALL of them starting with Cheney, through Rice and on down to Rove... the most arrogant, snotty, perfidious nihilists to be seen in those jobs since Slick Willy stacked his deck.

Brings up an interesting point though... if something a reporter learns DOES have some effect upon national security, then wouldn't their customary refusal to name sources amount to contempt of court or, in worst cases, treason?

[Gimpy]

I've been keeping up with this bullshit.

Here's the latest I picked up today.

*********************************

September 30, 2003 CONTRIBUTOR ARCHIVES


The Truth is Puttin? on its Shoes: An Inquiry Into the "Innocent" Mr. Rove

A GUEST COMMENTARY
by James C. Moore, Co-Author of "Bush?s Brain," The Political History of Karl Rove

"A lie can travel around the world
while the truth is just putting on its shoes."
Mark Twain

I am very tired of writing about Karl Rove. Lately, though, I have felt a kind of moral obligation, and almost a patriotic duty to remind people of the man who really runs the White House. Politically, and strategically, nothing has happened in the Bush Administration without Rove?s imprimatur. Reporters have discovered Rove?s steely control in the form of what they call a "leak proof" White House. Nothing comes out of the Bush White House without Rove?s approval. Generally, that means nothing comes out of the White House.

Until Karl Rove wants something to leak.

Rove?s temper has always been his weak spot. He cannot seem to control his anger. When Ambassador Joseph Wilson wrote in the New York Times that there was no truth to the allegations that Iraq had tried to purchase yellowcake uranium from Niger, Rove is said to have gone "ballistic." No one who has known Rove for any period of time doubts that Rove was the one who orchestrated the leak, which "outed" Ambassador Wilson?s wife as a CIA agent. Rove has always made sure that his enemies knew he will strike back, and swing with deadly power.

Rove wasn?t just trying to intimidate Ambassador Wilson. If, as many believe, he is responsible for the leak, Rove wanted to send a message to everyone in the intelligence community that they all needed to keep their mouths shut. As the war was being sold, intelligence cooked, and the media spun, Rove and the White House had informed intelligence operatives and scientists that they were not to publicly repudiate the phony claims about aluminum tubes, which the White House falsely argued were part of an Iraqi gas centrifuge to make enriched uranium. One national reporter told me that calls to scientists and intelligence operatives to ask about the aluminum tubes, which turned out to be rocket bodies, yielded the confession the scientists and intelligence agents had been ordered to say nothing.

"We are not having this conversation," the reporter was told.

But if he leaked Ambassador Wilson?s wife?s name, Rove was clearly trying to tell everyone in the intelligence community that they needed to toe the line, or they might also end up living at risk. This, of course, is a scurrilous, cowardly, and unpatriotic act. To believe that Karl Rove had no knowledge of this leak, or that he was not involved, it is necessary to ignore his absolute control of all things political in the White House, his Machiavellian nature, and attention to every sparrow flying under the Bush sun.

But how did it happen?

There are a few ways Rove might have planned to exact his revenge. He could have made calls himself, to high profile reporters, or ordered staffers and political intermediaries to contact journalists with the authorization that they were speaking for "senior White House officials." Not surprisingly, "senior White House official" is Rove?s nickname among many reporters because Rove asks that the description be used virtually every time he talks to a reporter. It enables him to get out his perspective, and White House spin, without giving away his identity, and self-serving agenda. Historically, Rove has been very adept at keeping a layer of denial, and other operatives, between himself and his political misdeeds. This means there is a strong possibility that a lower-level staffer will end up taking the blame for the leak.

In this case, though, there are some telltale signs that Rove was still at the controls. Because Robert Novak wrote the original story about Ambassador Wilson?s wife, those of us who know how Rove has leaked to Novak for years became immediately suspicious. Novak has denied that "White House officials called me with a leak." When this language is parsed, it becomes clear that Rove may have managed to get a tip to his friend Novak through an intermediary, and then the columnist called Rove for confirmation. According to the Washington Post, a half dozen reporters got phone calls about the Ambassador?s wife, and, yet, it was only Rove?s friend, Robert Novak, who wrote a story. The rationale for the story, a specious motivation, was that Ambassador Wilson got the assignment to go to Niger because his wife was a CIA agent, and she made the recommendation. Is that an important enough piece of information to justify blowing the cover of a CIA agent?

Rove?s relationship with Novak is widely known in the Washington press corps. During the presidential campaign, when the chorus of questions was being asked about Mr. Bush, and the Texas Air National Guard, reporters wanted to know where Mr. Bush went during his time on assignment in Alabama. His commander said the future president had never shown up for duty. Rove told the campaign reporters that they were "making too much of a few missed meetings." In 48 hours, the exact language was used on network television by Novak, who described the controversy of Mr. Bush?s missing years as "a few missed meetings." Novak was not on the press plane to hear Rove?s original comments.

An uncontrolled temper may be Rove?s only weakness as a political counsel. In Ron Susskind?s Esquire Magazine article on Rove, he described sitting outside the presidential advisor?s White House office hearing Rove scream into the phone, "Tell him we?ll f**k him. We?ll f**k him like nobody ever has." During the presidential campaign, Rove lost his cool in front of a few hundred people on the tarmac in Manchester, New Hampshire, as I stood and watched while Rove screamed at my colleague Wayne Slater about an innocuous story of mostly recycled information.

No one, though, knows Rove?s vindictiveness better than John Weaver. Were it not for Karl Rove, Weaver might still be a leading Republican political consultant. In Texas, Rove and Weaver had been successful partners, until Weaver chose to go out on his own and build a client list. A few months later, Weaver hired an employee away from Rove. Before too long, as competition grew between Rove and Weaver, disgusting rumors began to circulate about Weaver?s personal life, and reporters and potential clients wondered about Weaver?s judgment. The stories, which many reporters have said originated with Rove, dried up Weaver?s business, and he left Texas. Eventually, Weaver became the lead political strategist to Senator John McCain?s presidential campaign. After McCain lost the bitter primary battle, Weaver discovered he was squeezed out of party work by Rove, who was now in charge of all things Republican. Weaver became a Democrat, an advisor to the Democratic National Committee, simply because Rove was never content to leave him alone.

Similar stories are innumerable in Rove?s political march to power. Anyone who has watched Rove?s rise in presidential politics, and has reported on his machinations, is not surprised to learn that Ambassador Wilson suspects Rove as being the source of the leak, or, as a minimum, a senior administration official who condoned the leak. Washington reporters, who have learned of Rove?s political discipline, are also immediately suspicious of the presidential advisor. It fits his historical pattern of behavior.

The circumstantial evidence is already in. And it points at Karl Rove.

And if the Bush Administration is serious about protecting this country, if Rove committed this treasonous act, he needs to be prosecuted under the Patriot Act he has so ardently supported.


****************************

[Keith_Hixson]

Both Sides Throw so much blame around that truth often gets muddled.
Only the Party Loyal believe either party. Who knows what the truth is. You certainly won't get it from the press. We'll know the truth 75 years from now when someone does a complete investigation of all the presidents, etc.
But, my distrust of the press (both liberal and conservative) makes me believe they allow their ideologies to motivate the print rather than the truth.
So . . . . with that I also believe its a whole bunch of empty accusations not based on fact just to get vote.

Keith

[HARDCORE]

Hey "Blues-Boy", HC leaks more (at times) than those White House Pipes! My many trips to the John in the middle of the night prove that !! I try not, however, to bring out the draino until the old plunger has proven ineffective, if you get my drift?!

To here, the same old shit is kicking loose- the 'Prez' is again asking State to investigate, positions and careers are becoming shaky, and nothing (opinion) has been definitively proven, one way or the other yet! "Speculation can often get one in a helluva lot of trouble!" And at this point, "I have more than my fair share to deal with!"

However, and for your edification, I have posted an opinion, entitled:

"Leaky Pipes, Or A Huge Crack In The Dam Of State?"

I think that it speaks for itself, and I did write it before I read your great piece this morning! (Oops!!)

And Blues, even I have to shut down now and then for a little sleep, R & R, a bite to eat, and even (occasionally) to take a dump, when mother nature calls and the Exlax kicks in!

As far as "Loving This (MY) Country, and Not Liking the direction that it is (SOMETIMES) going", there are no big secrets about that! "It is not the way that it has to be, however, but rather, just the way that it is (opinion)!"

Hell, one of these days I am liable to croak! So please, don't chastise me then for my procrastination! I hear that neither angels, nor devils, have ready access to pen and paper, nor a computer either, for that matter!
----------------------------------------------------
Besides, I may then be a tad occupied abiding by Old Lyndon Johnson's adage, it being: "At that point, I may be really busy trying to keep face, and losing my ass, all at the same time!"

"LBJ also found most politicos so dumb, that they could not even fart and chew gum at the same time!" Also (partially) attributed to the late Lyndon Johnson [1908-1973] 36th Prez.

So whatever we do, we must take great pains "NOT TO FART IN HELL", as noxious gases are extremely combustible. And this, in itself, kind of makes you wonder why DC itself has not gone up in smoke!

"Hey, you asked and you received!!"



VERITAS

[BLUEHAWK]

Right on Gimpy, if you and me are the ONLY two americans who clearly see what a cumbersome tumour growth Karl freakin' Rove was, is and will always be on this or any other political group, then so be it!

That is one man in the face of whom I am not totally sure I could keep from doing damage to his physiology if he so much as said one word.

[HARDCORE]

BLUEHAWK -

Why bother damaging his (KR's) physiology - why not just kick the political shit out of him!! "There is after-all, no crime in legally bludgeoning someone with our votes!"

And hey, this gent in question, he is not related to George Hunter White, is he?

"When one maintains control through fear, he ceases to govern, but rather dictates!" (Hardcore - Sept. 30, 2003)

VERITAS

[BLUEHAWK]

HC -
Well, if the secret service would suspend the crime of felonious assault and battery for a short period of time, then that is what a man might be inclined to consider. However, I could have a few more ideas along the lines of demonstrating to him exactly in what ways his arrogant advice has permanently damaged an entire nation, which would require more hours to adequately express and convey... starting with rubbing his nose in it.

I appreciate and accept the correction.

[HARDCORE]

GIMPY & BLUEHAWK

The President said something about investigating the leak that could cause severe damage to the Ambassador and his CIA Operative (?) wife!!

How could anyone in our government jeopardize the well being of one of our own, especially a dedicated individual who is placed out in harm's way consistantly? (Unconscionable at best!)

I would say that the time is right for the President to, not only plug that leak, but to prosecute same, especially if anyone's life, limb and liberty were placed in jeopardy!

This is not the time, I fear, to blame some disconnected underling either, but rather to scalp the honcho who "REALLY" let the cat out of the bag!! (opinion)

The White House can not, and must not, be used as an implement of revenge, leveled at truth, dedication and honor!

VERITAS

[BLUEHAWK]

HC -
I think he's gonna do just that, saw him on the toob a few minutes ago, lookin' real serious about some head rollin' he might need to get done...in this regard.