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Old 09-26-2005, 09:30 AM
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Default The Army pogues a Silver Star for politics

Some very intersting reading yesterday in the SF Chronicle. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NGD7ETMNM1.DTL It turns out that the US Army, among other things, pogued up Pat Tilman's Siver Star. There was no actual combat going on when he was killed by friendly fire.
The real truth:
...According to testimony, Tillman, who along with others on the hill waved his arms and yelled ?cease fire,? set off a smoke grenade to identify his group as fellow soldiers. There was a momentary lull in the firing [towards him from "friendlies"-jw] and he and the soldier next to him, thinking themselves safe, relaxed, stood up and started talking. But the shooting resumed. Tillman was hit in the wrist with shrapnel and in his body armor with numerous bullets.

The soldier next to him testified: ?I could hear the pain in his voice as he called out, ?Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat f?ing Tillman, dammit.? He said this over and over until he stopped,? having been hit by three bullets in the forehead, killing him...."

The Army story: "...On April 30, the Army awarded Tillman a Silver Star medal for bravery, saying that ?through the firing Tillman?s voice was heard issuing fire commands to take the fight to the enemy on the dominating high ground....?
Thats quite a bit of diffference in the two stories--whats the difference between truth and reality? the US Army and the Bush administration was trying to gain all the reflected "glory" from the death of Pat Tilman that they could.
"...Tillman?s death came at a sensitive time for the Bush administration ? just a week before the Army?s abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in Iraq became public and sparked a huge scandal. The Pentagon immediately announced that Tillman had died heroically in combat with the enemy, and President Bush hailed him as ?an inspiration on and off the football field, as with all who made the ultimate sacrifice in the war on terror.?
His killing was widely reported by the media, including conservative commentators such as Ann Coulter, who called him ?an American original ? virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be.? [Sieg Heil!-jw] His May 3, 2004, memorial in San Jose drew 3,500 people and was nationally televised...."

I wonder what Ann Coulter would have said if she knew Tillman was a "...a fiercely independent thinker who enlisted, fought and died in service to his country yet was critical of President Bush and opposed the war in Iraq, where he served a tour of duty..."
Then, of course he would have been a Liar, Coward and Traitor like all the rest of us who served our country well and then voted against Bush. The qualifications for being called a L, C or T by Ann Coulter are very broad, consisting of not voting for Bush. She would have said this no doubt to the grieving parents if she had the chance.

It looks to me like The US Army once again pogued a medal for political reasons. I mean Tillman was a great patriot who put his life on the line for what he believed in, but reading the accounts, there is no basis for a Silver Star at all
Thats the way I remember the awards and decorations process to be--arbitrary, heavily political, weighted towards officers. I thought you would have had to kill people or save someone to get a Silver Star (Kerry did) but no, if the Army thought they could get some political yayas over it, they gave out medals like peanuts. I always thought so.

Whats interesting in this article is to get the sense of Tillman as a man--I wish I had paid more attention to him, he was a real hero and obviously an independent thinker:
"...He was an avid reader whose interests ranged from history books on World War II and Winston Churchill to works of leftist Noam Chomsky, a favorite author...although he supported the Afghan war, believing it justified by the Sept. 11 attacks, ?Pat was very critical of the whole Iraq war.?..."
This shows me once again that heroes can be aginst the war they fight in and it is as much their duty to speak against it as fight it.
Although I got into being a Ranger through the backdoor, (lrrps were grandfathered into the Ranger Association) Tillman is the type of guy I remember serving with--independent thinkers, some of them well educated, with all the balls it took to pull off incredible adventures.
But poorly led and this is another example of that, as in Somalia.
There the Rangers' werre the victim of their own errors--going the same way SIX TIMES in a row (according to Hackworth) Here is was dividing the unit in the middle of a hostile area, failure to communicate,poor fire discipline and more.
The CO, who ordered the division of troops over the platoon leader's objections, was--you'll be glad to hear--reprimanded.

The charges leveled in this story are outrageous--if half of them are true, then heads should roll at every level for these blatant lies and coverup. What do you bet that nothing happens at all--the government is no longer accountable to the American people, especially the military
Stay good
James
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Old 09-26-2005, 10:05 AM
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Seems like all we've heard over the years about the 'new' military was nothing but pure Bravo Sierra. We were given the impression that the perfumed princes of our generation were no more..you know the ones, the scum who advanced their careers over the dead bodies of their men. Well, somehow, these princes have managed to reproduce another generation like themselves. Sometimes, in my darker moments, I think that fragging is a viable option. WHEN WILL WE EVER LEARN?
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Old 09-26-2005, 12:16 PM
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This really isn't news anymore, but simply regurgitated and sensationalized repetition of a tragic event that will doubtless bring additional pain to the Tillman family. Inflated awards are nothing new in war, but sadly this one is all the more disconcerting because of the questionable acts of some Pentagon underling whose career has doubtless been terminated.

Try as I might, I can't seem to find a point to the original post, except as confirmation of a long-held suspicion that Bush-haters will indeed use the dead bodies of fallen warriors to advance their pathetic agenda.
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Old 09-26-2005, 01:56 PM
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Perhaps the Chron will get up the manly stones to go confront the Tillman family and demand the award and citation is surrendered to them instead of cheep shots and sniping from afar. I?m sure the Chron is well aware of a Massachusetts personage that is highly skilled and experienced at throwing other people?s medals and such items over the proper fences and will be quite happy to oblige. Recycling the honored dead for political purposes seems to be the ?in crowd? thing these days so the Chron getting in on the action comes as no surprise, none at all.

Bucks to be made and innocent people to trash out, so the Chron better get a goin if they are goin to make a showin.

Scamp
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Old 09-27-2005, 06:55 AM
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Default Its an outrage!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by SuperScout This really isn't news anymore, but simply regurgitated and sensationalized repetition of a tragic event that will doubtless bring additional pain to the Tillman family. Inflated awards are nothing new in war, but sadly this one is all the more disconcerting because of the questionable acts of some Pentagon underling whose career has doubtless been terminated.

Try as I might, I can't seem to find a point to the original post, except as confirmation of a long-held suspicion that Bush-haters will indeed use the dead bodies of fallen warriors to advance their pathetic agenda.
So basically youre saying that its OK for the Army to completely fake a Silver Star? As long as some "Pentagon underling" gets the axe? How about the combat commanders who obviously conspired to hide the truth and whose negligence and poor command caused the death in the first place? If theyre Republicans they stay on the job? ["Heckuva job, Brownie!"]
As much as I saw you and others like you pissing all over John Kerry's allegedly--thats ALLEGEDLY--faked Silver Star, I would have thought that when the evidence shows that someone actually DID fake a Silver Star that it would be more than passing interst to you. You know as well as me it happens all the time.
But its not my side that is using : "...the dead bodies of fallen warriors to advance their pathetic agenda..." Its yours! The Repubonazis like Ann Coulter using Tillman for their own political purposes evidently don't bother you at all.
But this goes much deeper than a coverup and a faked Silver Star--this story shows some real incompetence and stupidity on the part of Tilman's commanders. Thats certainly no liberal's fault, is it? Youre going to want to bury it all under the rug but if there was any accountability in the military or federal government the true story of this would come out.
Bush haters--you got that right--but I'm not as good as preaching hatred as the other side is. And I NEVER faked a Silver Star, like your side did.
Stay good
James
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:09 AM
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A soldier is dead, nothing after that matters. Let him rest in peace.

Hate Bush all you want, hate the Dems all you want, leave the soldiers alone.

Trav
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:42 AM
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Nowhere did I even begin to countenance the approval of phonied-up awards, and how you read that into it is still a mystery to me. I certainly questioned Kerry's Silver Star, as did many of the onsite witnesses; I was even more critical of his being awarded the Purple Heart for flying rice kernels landing in his butt, due to his own incompetence.

Did Ann Coulter insult Pat Tillman, or did her words bring discomfort to his family? Hardly. But your regurgitating this story is certainly not bringing balm and comfort to the Tillman family, or any other family of a fallen warrior. And no, it doesn't bother me that anybody praises our warriors, irrespective of whatever motive you might want to paranoidically attribute to their actions. I praise our warriors every chance I get, and pray for them daily. It's really hard to praise and pray with a hateful heart.

Be filled with hate. Sit and gnash your teeth all day long. Stick little pins into little GOP ju-ju dolls. Wallow in your negativity. But, finally, what Trav said, said it all.
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Old 09-27-2005, 08:00 AM
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What Catman said!
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Old 09-28-2005, 02:54 AM
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"DITTO" what Trav said !
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Old 09-28-2005, 10:21 AM
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James, if I may say...

When reading the entirety of your original post, I see what you were probably getting at, and it would be frustrating as hell to me too if I were in your shoes.

Sir Blue
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