removing American flags from the graves of veterans

[sfc_darrel]

? More From The Union-News
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Hampshire/Franklin County News
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Flags removed from cemetery

Friday, August 30, 2002
By GEORGE GRAHAM

WESTFIELD ? Workers from the Roman Catholic Diocese of Springfield began removing American flags from the graves of veterans at St. Mary Cemetery this week.

Peter Vickery, a lawyer representing veterans who want the flags left on the graves, filed an emergency petition with the state Supreme Judicial Court yesterday seeking to restore an injunction prohibiting the diocese from removing the flags and flagholders.

"This is really devastating," Larry Black Wolf, a Westfield veteran, said yesterday. "Where is the justice system when we need it? Something is terribly wrong here, and we are trying to rectify it."

Black Wolf said the flag removal is especially jarring because it comes so close to Sept. 11.

The diocese's action follows a state Appeals Court judge's decision earlier this month to vacate Hampden Superior Court Judge Peter A. Velis' preliminary injunction prohibiting the diocese from removing the flags.

Joseph M. Kostek, director of cemeteries for the diocese, said yesterday it will take about two weeks to remove the flags and flagholders.

Vickery of Amherst said he hopes to get a hearing scheduled next week with the Supreme Judicial Court.

"We have to show there are exceptional circumstances and that we don't have any alternative," Vickery said.

The dispute over the flags, which began in the spring, pits veterans who have long displayed American flags over veterans' graves all season long at the Southampton Road cemetery against the Springfield diocese. The diocese took over maintenance of the cemetery in March and is seeking to limit the time and manner in which the flags may be flown.

Veterans are fearful that the flagholders, which bear information relevant to each person commemorated, will get jumbled or lost, Vickery said.

Some of the flagholders are very old and commemorate Civil War veterans, Vickery said.

But Kostek said yesterday the diocese is carefully mapping out the 1,600 sites where veterans are buried and tagging each of the flagholders so each can be returned to the proper grave.

"We want to do it very systematically and be fair to everybody," Kostek said. "We want to honor the veterans."

The diocese will inform the veterans in writing that the flags and flagholders are being taken down, Kostek said.

The veterans, Kostek said, will have the option of storing the flags and flagholders on cemetery premises or elsewhere.

Under diocese rules, which are imposed on all the cemeteries that the diocese maintains, flags and their holders will be allowed on veterans' graves for one week before and one week after Memorial Day and Veterans Day. George Graham can be reached at ggraham@union-news.com
http://www.masslive.com/hampfrank/un.../w830flai.html

[Tamaroa]

NOW this flames me. I do not understand the logic at all. Here in Rockland County, the cemeteries have a policy to remove only flags that are tattered. They of course leave the GAR markers and other veterans markers in place. Occasionally a maintenance worker removes one when he mows around the graves and puts it back in the wrong place. However, I visit the cemeteries on a regular basis and make sure the markers are returned to their original spot. I keep a couple of dozen spare flags in my car at all times to replace or furnish new flags to graves everytime I visit.

Once I was furious because a GAR marker was laying flat on the ground, face down, pressed into the dirt by truck tire tracks. I had to clean it up, straighten it out and find the soldier to whom it belonged. The nearest grave without a marker was a private from the 17th New York Volunteers so I placed it there.

All it takes folks is a couple of bucks and some TLC and we can care for their graves. I posted a newspaper article I wrote about this very thing on another thread here. I will repost it here since it is way more appropriate on this thread.

================
Ramblin' Round Rockland
County Memorial Markers, Shattered and Worn

?Charge it is? replied Major Edward Pye of Haverstraw to a suggestion by Rufus Dawes of the 6th Wisconsin. With that answer, the 95th New York Volunteers were to go down in history along with the 6th Wisconsin and 84th New York as the three Union regiments that attacked Davis? Mississippi Brigade in the unfinished railroad cut at Gettysburg on July 1, 1863. This audacious act bought more time for the battered Union forces as they desperately hung on during the first day of the battle waiting for re-enforcements for their outnumbered army.

Fast-forward one hundred and thirty-six years to a quiet section of Oak Hill Cemetery. There stands a battered red sandstone marker with its entire inscription completely eroded, lost for all time. It is the marker for Edward Pye, one time lawyer and judge in Haverstraw who put everything aside and volunteered to aid his country in time of need. He was an able officer revered by his men and the town from which he came. Throughout the war, there are constant references to him in the Rockland County Messenger indicating the depths of feelings toward this lawyer turned citizen soldier. There were even editorials in the local paper urging him to resign his commission and run for office.

It is a shame that a man so esteemed, so revered in his time leaves no physical evidence behind of his existence. There was an Edward Pye G.A.R. Post established in his memory after the war. In fact it is that Post flag that is one of the two flags the county is attempting to preserve for future generations of Rocklanders. Misses Demarest and Vervalen were responsible for raising the money for the flags. When presented with the banners, Pye was overcome with emotion. ?He pledged the company to defend it and either bring it back with them or leave their poor carcasses with it in the battle.?

Another grave at Oak Hill is that of Jeremiah Springsteen. He became the 95th regiment?s first casualty while in the field on August 8th, 1862 as a result of typhoid fever. Private Springsteen is buried in the G.A.R. plot of Oakhill Cemetery in Nyack. His stone is also a little worse for the wear as are several others in the plot. In fact, as you wander from Civil War grave to Civil War grave throughout the county, one thing is prevalent. That is the worsening condition of our veteran?s Civil War era graves.

Go to Mount Repose if you will. Private John Haring?s (6th New York Heavy Artillery) epitaph is no longer visible. The memorial stone to Private William G. Smith killed in action at Gettysburg is wearing away to nothing. Go to Tallman Cemetery just off Route 59. You will see Sergeant John Sheridan?s head stone snapped in half, the top half laying in the grass face up. Check out Greenbush Presbyterian Church Cemetery and try to find the 127th regiment?s Thomas Welsh?s stone, he was mortally wounded in action at Deveaux?s Neck in South Carolina, December 8, 1864: five short months before the war was over.

Better yet, try to get to the old Waldron burial ground in Grassy Point about half way between West Haverstraw and Stony Point. It is overgrown with brambles and brush, trees toppled over the stones. There are two Civil War veterans buried there, both Babcocks. A hurricane fence prevents you from going back there to survey the remains of the cemetery.

The one situation that probably grates most on our nerves is the fact that the Palisades Center Mall decided to build around rather than stay away from altogether, Mount Moor Cemetery in West Nyack. Mount Moor is the final resting-place for many Black Civil War veterans. Sure the Mall neatened up the cemetery and placed a nice wrought iron fence around it. But the fact remains, cars rumble over it and around it hourly with nary a person giving it a thought. Yet in the cemetery you have veterans of the 54th Massachusetts, 14th Rhode Island Heavy Artillery, 10th U.S. Colored Troops and the 26th U.S. Colored troops. Progress went too far on this one.

If you, the reader, only knew how many of our veteran?s graves were neglected! You would be astonished at the apparent indifference toward their upkeep. Just to get an idea of the daunting task ahead regarding some of these old cemeteries, please go the Rockland Room in the New City Library. Ask to see the 1936 Survey of Abandoned Cemeteries by the Rockland County Planning Board. Just spend a few minutes browsing through it. You will get an idea of the task that lies ahead to make sure the stones are restored for future generations.

An answer to this dilemma would be to form clubs who adopt and care for our local cemeteries. This is not as romantic nor does it have the allure of say a Gettysburg or Antietam battlefield monument adoption. However, these veterans are buried in ground, which should be considered just as hallowed as a battlefield. If you are in a VFW or American Legion post, why not suggest the adoption and care of a cemetery as part of your club?s obligations?

A cemetery adoption program would also make an excellent project for the Boy Scout?s Eagle award as well as the Girl Scout?s Gold award. For the scouting awards, we would be most happy to serve as advisors. Make no bones about it. It has to be done! Moreover at the outset we are not talking about a big investment. Roger and I purchased boxes of grave marker US flags. They sit in our cars awaiting their next assignment. As we visit cemeteries, we place a flag on a hither-to-neglected grave, spruce up the area, jot down the information and move on.

We have begun to catalogue all Civil War graves in the county. Photographs are being taken as well to determine which stones are candidates for replacement. After we have a list drawn up we will seek to have them replaced. However in order to do this we need your help. Are you the descendant of a Civil War veteran whose grave is either unmarked or marked with a shattered or worn stone? If you are, please send all the information required for the headstone to us. We will review it and assist you in replacing the stone.

Marble was the predominant stone used for markers in the nineteenth century. It was easy to carve. Being easy to carve, however, means that it is subject to erosion wind and rain. We have seen some stones with holes worn completely through from one side to the other. As technology developed, so did the ease of carving hard stone, hence granite is the best choice for a stone that will endure. Consequently, stones we have ordered replaced thus far are carved in granite. Hopefully, they will be around a little longer for the county to honor as required.

In fact, let?s go a step further. If the headstone or unmarked grave is Revolutionary War through the Spanish American War, we will help out. So far, from the First World War to the present the stones appear to be in good condition, they are not a priority. But we do need your help Mr., Mrs. Ms. J. Q. Public! There are a lot of plots out there. We cannot get to all of them in a reasonable amount of time. As you take your morning constitutionals check out the local cemetery. Help us help preserve their memory. Remember Pye?s words at Gettysburg; ?Charge it is!? Well, we as concerned citizens must charge ahead, as well to make sure that progress does not suffocate preservation.



Bill Doherty

[colmurph]

The Archdiocese of Philadelphia will not permit the U.S. Flag to be draped on the Coffin of a deceased veteran during the church service. This is why so many Catholic Veterans have opted out of a Funeral Mass and have a Memorial Service at a Funeral Home. I imagine that Catholic Veterans will make plans to be buried in Veteran's Cemeteries or Public Cemetaries instead of Church Administered ones.

[reeb]

I Reeb Have a few words to intothis and the following will be my girlfriend ( she is worse at spelling and sentences ) than I am

Today (Labor Day) I still fly my flags on my house and my 81 Chevey Truck. Aint no place to put them on the cars

The Men/Women that join or drafted reserve an respext the write/rights that they deserve.

It is a shame that the new Veterans have to go through what we as the really Vets had to endure. even thogh now days they dont, but that is beside the point.

I would say that WHOMEVER takes theses FLAGS should be tried and convicted GUILTY)

Most likely the person/persons wasnt and never will be a VET...

enough............




Now for Karens view:

My brother died in 1964 his body was found in the Rhine River, this is to the men that was in the Navy in 1963, all he had on was a T-shirt Dress Blue pans ,socks ,shoes with a $20. bill in his shoe. His wallet and All ID ,and His Dress Blue top were never found. Can some tell me why do thay say it was just a drowning.
Does that mean I cant put a Flag on his grave, I will Tell them to kiss my ASS Iwill still put one there. I think our Vets should be able to have a Flag on their grave every day of the yr that,s what they fought and died for , this country and for which it stands for and it just burn,s myASS someone wants to take that right away for them. Thank You