Diesel Subs Resurface!

[HARDCORE]

Has ?Low-Tech? become too hot to handle in the age of Fueled Air Ordnance, Smart Bombs and other push-button technology?
?The Navy in San Diego seems to think so!!? It seems that quiet, new diesel submarines are again looming as a threat to even the biggest and mightiest warships afloat!!

The United States Navy is now confronting a new and potentially deadly danger, the World War II Type Diesel-Electric Submarine! A submarine now in the possession, thanks to our buddies in Russia, of many an enemy nation!

?We have a plethora of capable diesel subs throughout the world?, said a retired naval captain who is spearheading the opening of the ?Fleet Anti-Submarine Command at Point Loma, California!"

Another military analyst also added that the Navy was in dire straits stating that ?if you can?t track down enemy subs, it is impossible to control the seas!?

As of this point, some seven, potentially hostile nations, including Iran and China, have growing fleets of diesel submarines, and no navy, not since the Falklands War, has been engaged in a shooting war involving subs!

It is also worthy of note to add that quite a few nations have already bought top of the line ?Kilo-Class Diesel Submarines? from the Russians. And that some of these Russian Subs can submerge without regular resurfacing to replenish their air supply!! And these ?Air-Independent Propulsion Systems? add to the difficulty of tracking diesel boats, so says the experts!

And for the record, we have fewer nuclear attack subs today than we had some 10 years ago. The reason for this is that more and more old subs are being retired.

Also, and this is scary, our Navy now has the lowest number of warships since before World War I!! :cd:

AVAS & VERITAS

[Seascamp]

On the flip side, pigboats are slow slow and not easy for them to zip from thermal layer to thermal layer whilst playing submerged hide and seek like a nuke boat. So I?d say the principle threat is just knowing they are around and hanging out. But once a bead is drawn it may be best if the pigboat sub crew goes for a swim in a heck of a hurry cuz nasty stuff is coming in quickly and it?s all ?smart? and self-homing. And the detection equipment these days makes the WWII equipment seem as if it were vintage stone axe. So maybe we drum up bunch of real small and fast nuke boats and go a hunting if the need arises. As the saying goes, ?When hunting rabbits in tiger country, it?s best to watch out for the tigers. However, when hunting tigers in tiger country, the rabbits don?t mater.? And so it will be for contemporary pigboats, as they need tenders and all kinds of support ships to be at all useful and therefore are the anointed rabbits.

[HARDCORE]

SCAMP -

That would have been my idea too, but apparently, the "Sea Powers That Be" are still concerned about these sleepers, as even a conventional diesel sub can let lose with some space age weaponry!?

VERITAS

[Seascamp]

Well Rick, I sure am not going to argue with the Navy powers that be, and would agree that real nasty stuff comes in small packages these days. At the same time I still say that given all the operating parameters of a diesel pigboat that they would be severely limited to suicidal if they messed around with a modern USN battle group. One thing that is not seen with a carrier battle group is a few nuke A boats running point, flank or six guard.

Attack Boat Sailors are tough customers with bad attitudes I?m afraid, and they would have a pigboat as a condiment in a heartbeat. From my experience with this kind of thing, diesel recip engines make a ton of hydro racket and are not unlike waving a big red flag and saying ?here I am? from a long long way away. A gas turbine propulsion system could be used to really quiet things down considerably but the gas mileage goes totally away and the exhaust heat signature is awesome and hard to miss. The eye in the sky up there in geo sync orbit would probably pick up the heat signature and the pigboat would be on real tough times. So anyway, I would guess that the Navy powers that be are doing a back to the future deal and citing the cause to ready-up. If or if not they are gilding the lily a bit or a bunch, I don?t know. But usual funding and apparition deals have as much theater as fact and reality. But all in all it is an important issue to get a real grip on.

The frigging Mexican border situation scares me a lot more than the thought of belligerent pigboats with a plan, but that?s just me.

Scamp

[HARDCORE]

SCAMP -

"I certainly hope and trust that you are correct!!"

VERITAS

[Boats]

I went for a quick tour of an older sub for a visit. One of my Bud's was sent to one and it was an old diesel burner back in 1964. We ran into each other on liberty in Hong Kong. We went to his ship. Man was it small. Hot bunking was the order of the day and knowing that gives me the creeps having to do that. Those sub boys are breed and really special guys (and now gals I guess)?

I though we sold most of those old boats to the 3rd world countries? I also heard a few private owners purchased stripped down versions for scientific studies?

You never know? They are small I'd get claustrophobic in a heart beat on one of those.

[HARDCORE]

BOATS -

The only sub that I was ever aboard was back in Massachusetts in the late 40 or early 50s. I was just a kid, but even at that and back then, it was (as I recall) small!

The guys that manned those boats were real heroes, one and all!

VERITAS

[Seascamp]

I was being recruited for the Submarine Service at a time and had a look see. Were in the Bremerton Yards deperming facility and us potential recruits were taken out for a day in a diesel electric pigboat. Bad, bad place for demo rides, as the straights of Juan De Fuga are known to be among the roughest waters to be found. And I found this out to be a total and absolute truth. That sub bounced around like a crazy e-ride and being inside the sub and not able to get a horizon fix, I turned into a mighty, mighty pukey pup, yikes!!! Once at sea there was a dive demo and all the ambient noise of clanking, creaking and snapping gave me the big eyes for certain. So thanks but no thanks with all that Submarine Service business thought I. I preferred to take my chances up in the superstructure where I could see the sea and breathe the sea air. Not much armor or protection up there but that is something I could accept and deal with. So yes, it takes a special kind of hero to crew the diesel electric and Nuke boats.

Scamp

[Boats]

Scamp,

I went in (in early 63) got tested and next thing ya know they want me for sub school and sonar. They said I had ear's like a bird dog and could more sounds then most others. I said look boys - you put me into that enclosed can - I will go nuts. Don't like close enclosures.

It was bad enough working in the voids and other tight areas around the ship but to go under water for a long duration - Nada -that's not my bag. They quickly lost interest. ha ha

Give me the open air any day - any temperature - give me the sun the rain or even the ice - but don't box me in.

[HARDCORE]

Scamp & Boats

I guess now they are going to have to change the name from the Straits of Juan De Fuga to Juan De Puka!!!! LOL

VERITAS