The Army pogues a Silver Star for politics

[Andy]

In 1944 he flew, as a passenger, over a Japanese held island and the aircraft took enemy fire. As a result he saw to it he was "awarded" the Silver Star. Name that man.
**********
LBJ
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This story is as old as the Bible.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by SuperScout Nowhere did I even begin to countenance the approval of phonied-up awards, and how you read that into it is still a mystery to me. I certainly questioned Kerry's Silver Star, as did many of the onsite witnesses; I was even more critical of his being awarded the Purple Heart for flying rice kernels landing in his butt, due to his own incompetence.

Did Ann Coulter insult Pat Tillman, or did her words bring discomfort to his family? Hardly. But your regurgitating this story is certainly not bringing balm and comfort to the Tillman family, or any other family of a fallen warrior. And no, it doesn't bother me that anybody praises our warriors, irrespective of whatever motive you might want to paranoidically attribute to their actions. I praise our warriors every chance I get, and pray for them daily. It's really hard to praise and pray with a hateful heart.

Be filled with hate. Sit and gnash your teeth all day long. Stick little pins into little GOP ju-ju dolls. Wallow in your negativity. But, finally, what Trav said, said it all.

Well Brice

I'm afraid you didn't read the article--its not me or anything Ive done that hurts the heart of the Tilman family. This is what is called beating a straw man.
N o, its what the US Army did and is doing that pains the heart of the Tillman family--thats the pojnt of the article--not what any antiwar type was doing
And the story here is not in particular the Silver Star, its about the lies told to the Tilman family by the USARMY.
I think he deserves a Silver Star and maybe more--I thinhk ANY man who goes into combat in an Airborne Rangers uniform deserves a Silver Star. I went into battle in an Airborne lrrps uniform which was the same thing, earlier version.I think Pat Tilman is a real hero in more ways than one and if there was any way I could tell that to the Tillman family I would.
And to top it all off, I think the Afghanistan War was worth fighting, unlike Iraq--just like Pat Tilman.
My complaint is not about Tilman at all or anything he did. I'm mad about what the US Army did to his family according to the article.
but there is such a thing as the truth and its important. And when the US Army--not ME-- tells some pretty obvious whoppers to the Tilman family and write up a Silver Star award for something that obviously happened a lot different then I think thats what hurts the Tilman family--not anything I say.
So please--youre not going to define me in anyway as anti-GI or anti Tilman or that in any way I'm hurting the Tilman family.
What I want is to get their complaints dealt with in an open manner--how is that unAmerican? Why doesn't every other good American do the same? This is a grieving family.
My airing their complaints gives them a better forum and thats why I'm doing it. And what theyre complaining about is exactly what I'm pointing out: coverup of a variety of things and some very conflicting reports. You know better than me what this implies if the eye witness reports are right--somone faked reports up and down the line. There was little or no accountability of the truth if this article is right. A failure in command and a failure in integrity of militaryt documents--this goes well beyond some failure of a Pentagon flunky. And you would know it, Brice, more than anyone. As a former officer in the Army don't you want to see integrity up[held int it? There are serious chartges leveledhere.
Evidently, this is just another case of how well the military can adjust their paperwork for "exigencies of the service" when needed. And this is a blatantly political example of it--which the article points out. Tilman was originally supposed to be the posterboy for the War on Terror and he was a fine patriotic man, God Bless him. He did die serving his country, no matter who shot the bullet. But it turns out that he was a whole lot more of a thinker than and intersting person then I understood and he may well have turned out to be the posterboy for resistance to the war
What this article talks about is the Tilman family's issues--they want the truth. I think they deserve it--and thats why I posted this article.
"Be filled with hate. Sit and gnash your teeth all day long. Stick little pins into little GOP ju-ju dolls. Wallow in your negativity."

Ah, Brice, youre usual expressive self. maybe youre winnng me over after all--you ARE becoming my role model. You couldn't find a better example of hate speech than just about any one of Ann Coulter's--who I know youre an aficianado of. But if you COULD find a better example, it would have to be in your own writings. You come here daily to vent your bile on everyone you disagree with.
Therefore, I think the expression "It takes one to know one" is never better applied than here.
Stay good
James

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by catman A soldier is dead, nothing after that matters. Let him rest in peace.

Hate Bush all you want, hate the Dems all you want, leave the soldiers alone.

Trav

You misunderstand me entirely. There's nothing I said that is anti GI at all. I support the war in Afghanistan.
What I am against is the lies and coverup about this incident b y the US Armywhich evidently the Tilman family is concerned about also.
I want what they want--the truth.
Its what the family of a dead hero deserve
Stay good
James

[urbsdad6]

Lies and coverup are the key words here. The article that I read containing almost exactly the same content and was addressing the issue of the Tillman family actually getting the whole truth. Not half the truth, not a quarter of the truth, not a grain of the truth but all the truth. Lies and coverup is what they have gotten up to this point supposedly. Does Duty, Honor, Country, ring a bell to any of you? I was taught to admit you're wrong when you have done something wrong and to come forward if you realize you have been part of something that should not have taken place. Unfortunately the culture of today is determined to lie and coverup our very lives with deception and misinformation from the top to the bottom. Those that point it out are often accused of being anti this or anti that. In fact we are so often blinded by the facts that we are speechless and immediately start pointing fingers at this thing or that person. Fratricide is fratricide. The Tillman family deserves the truth as do we. Do you want your son or daughter sent off to possibly die on foreign soil under the command of individuals that are so concerned about saving their own butts in a crisis that Duty, Honor, and Country get thrown out the window? Do you want your sons and daughters led by those that do not lead by example? I know it's not a perfect world but to be able to expect the truth from those in charge is not too much to ask when a soldier dies. Besides anything bigger than a six man team is a clusterf*ck.


Doc Urb

[BLUEHAWK]

No, it ain't no "lies and coverups."

Its the normal FUBAR when war happens.

Might just as well get used to it.

[Seascamp]

Human compassion used as a straw man to screen long-term and contemporary blistering hatred for everything and everybody outside a narrow orthodoxy of belief is disingenuous and misleading. Making assumptions about the needs and wants of the Tillman family and what they know or don?t know is arrogantly presumptuous and equally disingenuous.

All in all, the blistering hatred hiding behind some pretence of human compassion is left wanting for some credibility.

Scamp

[BLUEHAWK]

Ayup... I hate it when that happens.

[Seascamp]

Ya Blue, it all is rather reminiscent of pre-adolescent boys burning ants with a magnifying glass. One may ask ?Why are you boys burning ants??. ?Because they are ditto heads and we hate ditto heads? may be the answer. Of course that begs the question ?Well, what is a ditto head?? and the answer might will be ?an ant?. :ek:

A while back, right here, I found out I was a ?ditto head? so I suppose I?m to be thankful I?m not an ant I reckon, but I?m still not sure what a ditto head is beyond some nondescript but axiomatic hate object. My former Communist, Russian students call me ?Beel?. Now if I look that up in my Russian-English dictionary and find that Beel = Ditto head, I?m really going to be pissed-off, LOL. So maybe I won?t do that today, maybe tomorrow or next week.

Scamp

[BLUEHAWK]

Sir Scamp...
I think somebody called me one of those too, a few times... never did know what they (or anyone else for that matter) meant by it

There's no english equivalent of the word "beel", so its gotta be Russian slang for "patriot."

As for Tillman... the picture seems to simply be that he was a pro football player who suited up for the war, and died in uniform in Afghanistan. I've seen nothing but conflicting reports about the circumstances of his death, but would tend to go with whatever version the Army says happened. Contrary to some people's inclinations, it is not my view that the Army makes a habit of lying about stuff... it happens there about as often as it happens elsewhere. Whether his decoration was pogued or not, I have no idea and, yes, medals do get awarded for mighty weird reasons sometimes. Example, I always thought it was kinda strange that MacArthur (the younger) came out of WW l with 5 (five) Silver Stars if memory serves. That is a WHOLE lot of Silver Stars for an officer in any man's book.

This much does seem clear, Tillman did not receive a PH for getting a paper cut on his pinky. His life was lost while carrying arms on behalf of our nation, and not by falling off the back of an APC into the batallion grease trap either. Some would say that the mere act of getting in the vicinity of murderous maniacs in a foreign land and actually advancing toward them or pulling a trigger in their direction qualifies as an act of valor... seems right to me, frankly. Myself, I've never been asked to do that... and from all reports, I lucked out.

I believe that any recognitions Tillman has gotten may have more to do with people wanting to give praise, find heroes, acknowledge sacrifice, provide role models... that sort of thing.

[Seascamp]

Actually Blue, ?Bill? when spoken with a Russian accent comes out Beel, at least I hope it does, LOL.
When greeted in the rural areas of the Philippines they take my right hand and touch it to their forehead and call me ?Po?. Beyond that formality, rarely given to a Gringo, they call me ?Oobee?. That particular area; central Quezon Province, is working alive with the blood-drenched Communist NPA (New People?s Army) but I had a loaned back .45 so I didn?t worry about those thieving, extortionist, murderious buggers and besides, the little kiddos always escorted me around and gave me a heads up if I was heading in a dangerous direction. It was last Christmas season and I had pockets full of coin pesos for the kiddos so maybe that?s why I always had an escort, who knows. About only new thing I really learned is that a .45 is a crummy back gun, ouch, that hurts. To freeking big and heavy, I?d say.

Ha ha, if I went to the neighborhood sari-sari store I was like a kiddo magnet and just paid the bill once the ball of kiddos got some candy treat or a ?banana Q?. Lucky for me the store attendant kept it down to one treat per kiddo, yikes.

So anyway, a name is a name I reckon and sometimes it?s worthwhile to figure out what in means, other times it?s just irrelevant bullshit that?s meant to insult, demean and harass and has no other purpose.

Scamp