What You See is What You Get

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Scamp,

That is good news on a Sunday morning to hear Senator McCain was speaking out. As well he should. It sounds as though he has come to realize what we all know, some dogs will bite the hand that feeds them.

Great post. I really appreciate thebalance your personal experience brings tous.

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[exlrrp]

"As this story develops, there doubtless be more names named and more sources revealed. Having read the original story, I wouldn't have gone to press with it myself, but the basic facts probably outweighed the initial hesitancy of Mr. King to expose the plight of Christians in Vietnam. "

OK, please--Start by filling me in on the facts of this story, I knew nothing about it untill you posted it. There's no real specifics at all.
I only see the Headline----Kerry and McCain YadaYada shielding Slaughterers of Christians--and I see nothing at all proving this, as a matter of fact, the author does not even detail ANY charges other than being friends and defenders of the Vietnamese.
He accuses them of a serious charge:
"Kerry and McCain Shield Communist Vietnam's Slaughter of Christians " but makes no effort to prove it in any rational sense, if this is the whole article. I thought half of it must have been left off! Thats a serious charge!!! OK lets see the proof, lets see what they specifically did--I do not see one single sentence in this article giving ANY specific at all, charge or proof!! They refer to Mc CAin and Kerry as Freinds and defenders--thats their best shot? Ive read the article again and your responses again and there's STILL nothing linking Kerry and McCAin to shielding mas murderers!! Thats a baseless charge against the 2 Vietnam Veterans elected to the most highest office, decent honrable men, real leaders of their parties, both of them? Doesn't that bother any one ??
This is a "journalistic" driveby shooting. They got a real freebie here, they got to display that headline without offering ANY proof at all of the charge . But the HEadline DID get airplay, didn't it? So some people will give it the short look and come away thinking: Oh Yeah Kerry and McCain shielded bad people, that means THEYRE bad people.
Thats the point of the articlle isn't it?

The bias towrds Bush is best experssed in this sentence: "Even the Bush administration is not doing as much as ICC would like, though King conceded, "Bush has been pretty good as a friend of the persecuted Christians around the world."
The author again, details no specifics AT ALL and it certainly begs some questions like:
Whats the Bush administration done about all this?? Did this author forget we have a Federal Government BESIDES Kerry and McCAin?? Well, what the heck are THEY doing about it?? I'd really like to know because the Bush administration is not known as stanch human rights supporters, scrapping the Geneva Conventions as regards prisoners for instance, and I want to know what theyre doing about this problem if there is one.
I think the author shows a real bias towards the Bush adminstration because I 'd bet big money theyre doing NOTHING about this at all!!.

As a matter of just good old American sense of fairplay and jurispridence this author should lay out some specific charges and some specific evidence to support his claims: Kerry and McCain Shielded mass murder of Christians. Simple common decency wouold require that, I would think, but I do not see it.
As to Christianity in Vietnam,. it seems to be fluorishing and I won't take any person's word to the contrary that hasn't been there recently,. I have, and I'm going back again to take a closer look fairly soon and thats including the Centtral Highlands. If you ever get any specifics as to charges here let me know and I'll try and look the people up for you.

James Worth

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by exlrrp "As this story develops, there doubtless be more names named and more sources revealed. Having read the original story, I wouldn't have gone to press with it myself, but the basic facts probably outweighed the initial hesitancy of Mr. King to expose the plight of Christians in Vietnam. "

OK, please--Start by filling me in on the facts of this story, I knew nothing about it untill you posted it. There's no real specifics at all.
I only see the Headline----Kerry and McCain YadaYada shielding Slaughterers of Christians--and I see nothing at all proving this, as a matter of fact, the author does not even detail ANY charges other than being friends and defenders of the Vietnamese.
He accuses them of a serious charge:
"Kerry and McCain Shield Communist Vietnam's Slaughter of Christians " but makes no effort to prove it in any rational sense, if this is the whole article. I thought half of it must have been left off! Thats a serious charge!!! OK lets see the proof, lets see what they specifically did--I do not see one single sentence in this article giving ANY specific at all, charge or proof!! They refer to Mc CAin and Kerry as Freinds and defenders--thats their best shot? Ive read the article again and your responses again and there's STILL nothing linking Kerry and McCAin to shielding mas murderers!! Thats a baseless charge against the 2 Vietnam Veterans elected to the most highest office, decent honrable men, real leaders of their parties, both of them? Doesn't that bother any one ??
This is a "journalistic" driveby shooting. They got a real freebie here, they got to display that headline without offering ANY proof at all of the charge .

James Worth

#######

Yea James...................it bothers the hell out of ME!

I guess you have be part of the "dirty dozen", as they now call themselves, to be able to comprehend the hate & bias exhibited by some folks around here, ya know? Makes you kinda sick to your stomach, huh?? :cd:

James-

I think you have some very valid points.
In the intrest of keeping things in perspective I'd like to point out that this is an election year.A tremendous number of unsupported charges have been leveled at the President an his administration from from Dem. supporters for quite a while now.Some folks-includeing some on this site-have maintained that they were under no obligation to prove that the charges were true but that it was up to the Bush admin. to prove that they were not.Don't think that unsupported charges are ever a great idea but a little return fire from the Bush camp doesn't surprise me in the least and shouldn't surprise the Dem.s.

You stated that Kerry and McCain were Vietnam vets and decent honorable men.You offer no proof of this assertion.I have seen considerable evidence to the contrary.

[DMZ-LT]

You da Man Frisco . Move this to the political please. I don't read there and I would prefer not to read it here. Thanks again

[Arrow]

Frisco,

It looks as though you need to move this thread to the political forum.

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[Arrow]

Originally posted by Gimpy
I guess you have be part of the "dirty dozen", as they now call themselves, to be able to comprehend the hate & bias exhibited by some folks around here, ya know? Makes you kinda sick to your stomach, huh?? :cd:

Could you be more specific as to where you read the hate and bias recorded inmy post on this subjectSteve?

My stand on the POW/MIA issue and the genocide that is going on in Vietnam has been defined as the fault of those on both sides of the isle for normalizing trade relations with Vietnam thereby taking away the leverage the POW/MIA familes had to get a full accounting of those lost and left behind when we pulled out of Vietnam in 1975.

The genocide in Vietnam and human rights violations has long been a matter that is also close to my heart for many years. The proof is in the post that have made on these two subjects for over four years now on this site and the previous site. I have stated always and anyone that has read me on these two subjects knows that I hold accountable men and women on both sidesof the isle for trading justice for dollars.

Now watch me catch hell from both sides of the isle. It seems to me a person should be able to express their thoughts without being accused of hate and bias unjustly.

And to those that can't take a jokeof usbeing silly with the title "The DirtyDozen">>>>>>>

"I sobered up and I got to thinkin' ya'll ain't much fun since I quit drinkin' "

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posted toMelody05-21-04 05:07 PM


Melody,

My feelings about John McCain, John Kerry, President Clinton and President Bush in regard to normalizing trade with Vietnam goes back to holding Vietnam accountable for those American service men that were POW/MIA when we withrdrew from Vietnam and refusal to hold the government of Vietnamaccountable forgenocide.

Tradewithoutaccountabilityarethe key words here.For me it has nothing at all to do withwhat a nice guy John McCain, John Kerry, President Clinton or President Bush may be.It haseverything to doas far as I'm concerned with keeping the promise of "LeavingNo Man Behind" and defending those indigenous people in Vietnam whoat this timehave no defense. Thisis a travesty of justice that has been carried out through many administrations.

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Posted on Larry's thread " War against Vietnam Vets" 02-21-04 09:46 PM


1. My problem is not with John Kerry's service in Vietnam.The record states that he served honorably and it is not my placeto question his service or the service ofany honorably discharged Veteran of these United States.

2.I don't read Ann Coulter. I'm furious that anyone left or rightor center wouldeven thinksuch dispicable thoughts in regard to Max Cleland, his serviceand hisloss of limbs in service to this country. What kind of a human being is she? Not only to think these things but towrite and publishthem for all the world to see. Someone needs to fry her hard drive.I question that her statements are being highly celebrated or circulatednotby decent folks and not in the Vietnam Veteranscommunity.

3.Irefuse to forgetwhatJohn Kerry did to every Vietnam Veteran when he testified in regard to the Winter Soldiers Investigation.He cast doubt on the integrity of the service ofevery Vietnam Veteranthat servedbefore, during and after he served in Vietnamwith histestimony and lies in regard to atrocities being the norm in Vietnam.He gave strength to thelie of the anti-war movement that all Vietnam Veterans were baby killing psycho maniacs.

4.Irefuse toforget that President Bill Clinton and John Kerry and this present administration along with members from both sides of the islesold out our POW-MIA and their families by pushing for and maintaining normal trade relations with Vietnam thereby taking away the leverage for a complete accounting of those still held and missing.

No one on this board that wants to put JohnKerry in the White House has even attempted to explain the actions of John Kerry and my objecton to them. If you are going to defend him by killing the messenger (namely me) or by attacking the opposingparty and can't address the issues directly thenjust give it a pass. I just want to hear your personal reasonedview of his statements and his actions concerning these two issues.

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first post on POW/MIASenate Select Committee5-20-2003

http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31269