The RAMBO coalition!

[SuperScout]

Timeline: O'Neill was in Vietnam after TJ Kerry, and he very well may have been in Cambodia. Fact of the matter is, O'Neill could present a much more compelling statement of fact then Kerry could ever dream up. How many differenct people/groups/armies did Kerry claim were shooting at him? Let's see: Khmer Rouge (NEWSFLASH: Khmer Rouge weren't operating in that area in Christmas, 1968); Peoples Army of Vietnam (NEWSFLASH: NVA didn't tie ID ribbons around their bullets); or ARVN (NEWSFLASH: see preceding comment). And it was so secret a mission that Kerry couldn't take any crewmen and drove the boat himself, it was so secret that not even SOG was authorized to have a record of the mission, and it was so secret that all survivors of the mission have had that memory surgically removed. Umhmmm.

And yes, I was in Cambodia, May 1970, during the incursion. And no, I don't have any 'hatered' for Kerry, only disdain. And I suspect that my Panther buddy, Doc 2/47, doesn't either.

So, just when was Kerry in Cambodia? Fact of the matter is, he lied about that, not one of his crewmen will back him up on that lie, and he lacks the gonads to admit he lied. I guess when that Cambodian visit was "seared - seared, I say" into his brain, it dried up his ability to admit a lie.

Sure I get it.You're ignoreing the question.The question was:Has ANYBODY backed up his "Christmas eve in Cambodia"war story?You haven't addressed the question.Guess that means the answer is no.

[firemedic]

As an observer of the previous discussion Gimp, I gotta say that Superscout answered your question about O'Neill's posibly being in Cambodia without cancelling out his charge about Kerry's lie. Where's your answer (more pointededly, Kerry's) to that Gimp? Again, I gotta say, all you seem to do is cut and paste articles from Democtaic political hacks into every discussion. Your question was answered, please respond. By the way, when Kerry called all VN soldiers killers comitting genocide, and psychos, how does that not appy to you? And why do you not take offense even if he was just talking about everyone else but you? Or is the truth that as long as he promises you the moon concerning VA benefits, that you will forget his duplicity and lack of integrity over the past 30 years?

[Gimpy]

What the L.A. Times has to say about the "cambodia" comment. I find no reason to disagree with them.

#####
Maria L. La Ganga and Stephen Braun, Los Angeles Times :

There were, of course, covert operations that the government has since acknowledged ? operations that sent American soldiers to illegally infiltrate Cambodia and other neighboring countries. The problem, SBVT contends, is that Kerry wasn't part of any of them.
...
Jim Wasser disagrees. He was a radarman who was second in command under Kerry on PCF-44. Wasser, who now lives in Illinois, says that it would be unusual for an enlisted gunner's mate to specifically know the boat's position at any given time.
"I had to go on [Fox News show] Hannity & Colmes with him, and even though he's wrong, and I truly believe that, he's my brother, and veterans should never say anything about each other," Wasser says of Gardner. "[Swift Boat Veterans for Truth] say they're about the truth; that's a falsehood."

"On Christmas in 1968, we were close [to Cambodia]. I don't know exactly where we were. I didn't have the chart. It was easy to get turned around with all the rivers around there. But I'll say this: We were the farthest inland that night. I know that for sure."
Also, two of Kerry's crewmates ? Wasser and Zaladonis ? both told The Times the boat was in the vicinity of the Cambodian border and even fought an engagement with a Viet Cong sampan on Christmas Eve day.

"We patrolled a river on the border," Zaladonis said last week. "Unless I'm out of my mind or mistaken, that river was part of the border."

There are no after-action reports that pinpoint where Kerry's boat was in late December 1968. But a file from Navy archives in Washington obtained by The Times provides support for both sides.

An entry in a monthly summary of engagements for December 1968 reports that on Christmas Eve, "PCF-44 fired on junk on beach. Results: 1 sampan destroyed."

The entry was made by then-Capt. Roy Hoffmann, the overall commander of Swift boats and now one of Kerry's most vocal critics. There is no written location for the engagement, but it contains a coordinate used by the military to plot locations. The coordinate points to an area about 40 to 50 miles south of the Cambodian border, near an island called Sa Dec.

The entry also notes that the incident took place about 7 a.m., which would have given Kerry's boat another 12 hours to make it to the Cambodian border by nightfall. At a cruising speed of 23 knots, the boat could have covered the distance in about two hours.

This would be consistent with the contention of Kerry spokesman Michael Meehan that Kerry was in Sa Dec but reached the Cambodian border later the same day.

SBV CLAIM THAT KERRY COULD NOT HAVE BEEN INSIDE CAMBODIA BECAUSE NO SWIFT BOATS WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET INSIDE CAMBODIA

[via Media Matters]: O'Neill now claims that Kerry was lying about being in Cambodia during the Vietnam War because no one was allowed into Cambodia:

From Unfit for Command:

Kerry was never in Cambodia during Christmas 1968, or at all during the Vietnam War. ... Areas closer than 55 miles from the Cambodian border in the area of the Mekong River were patrolled by PBRs, a small river patrol craft, and not by Swift Boats. Preventing border crossings was considered so important at the time that an LCU (a large, mechanized landing craft) and several PBRs were stationed to ensure that no one could cross the border. [pp. 47-48]

O'Neill on ABC's This Week With George Stephanopoulos: How do I know he's [Kerry] not in Cambodia? I was on the same river, George. I was there two months after him. Our patrol area ran to Sedek, it was 50 miles from Cambodia. There isn't any watery border. The Mekong River's like the Mississippi. There were gunboats stationed right up there to stop people from coming. And our boats didn't go north of, only slightly north of Sedek. So it was a made-up story. [8/22]

FACT

As shown above these statements are utterly false. Indeed, O'Neill showed himself to be a liar extraordinaire since he had stated to then-President Richard Nixon that he was "in Cambodia" himself, in a swift boat!

REFERENCES
Media Matters:

As CNN congressional correspondent Joe Johns reported on the August 24 edition of CNN's NewsNight with Aaron Brown, "O'Neill said no one could cross the border by river, and he claimed in an audiotape that his publicist played to CNN that he himself had never been to Cambodia either. But in 1971, O'Neill said precisely the opposite to then-President Richard Nixon." CNN then aired the audiotape of O'Neill telling Nixon that he was, in fact, in Cambodia during the Vietnam War:

O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.

NIXON: In a swift boat?

O'NEILL: Yes, sir.

Although there was no response from O'Neill on CNN (O'Neill had "not returned CNN's calls," according to Johns ), O'Neill was confronted on the issue by Alan Colmes, co-host of FOX News Channel's Hannity & Colmes.

The Cambodia issue was first raised on the program by co-host Sean Hannity, who attempted to dismiss it by asking O'Neill, "[D]o you want to even respond to this attack against you so they [the Kerry campaign] can distract from him [Kerry] never answering a question about the discrepancies in his life?" and then asserting that O'Neill's contradicting comments were "consistent statements."

However, Colmes refused to let O'Neill -- who attempted to dismiss his lie by saying "I was talking in a conversation" -- off the hook for his false statement:


[quoting transcript of Newsnight with Aaron Brown ]:


A. BROWN: And just quickly on the O'Neill thing, just for my edification here, Mr. O'Neill's publicist played for you a tape where Mr. O'Neill says what again?

JOHNS: Well, he says in the tape essentially that he did not go to Cambodia, plain and simple. He says that a couple times in fact in this little short interview that was played for me on the phone. Now, of course, as you listen to that conversation with Richard Nixon, he says something completely different or, that's what it sounds like -- Aaron.

O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.


NIXON: In a swift boat?

O'NEILL: Yes, sir.

A. BROWN: It sure does. Thank you, Joe Johns in Philadelphia tonight.

######

As so far as history in Vietnam & Cambodia is concerned, here lies John Kerry's Vietnam record ? a thing by which he will be adjudged for good or ill until eternity itself erases any importance that his actions, the Vietnam war, this great country, and our own participation and understanding of it is long gone. It needs rewriting only insofar at it can be proved that here are lies. The Swiftboat Vets have failed to demonstrate this and the record remains unaltered. That is enough. And, enough is enough!

[Gimpy]

One more thing about this "Rambo" coalition of Bushs'.

What we have come to know of George W. Bush is that he will promote any lie; evade any truth; and exploit any tragedy to advance his far right fundamentalist agenda.

As John McCain said to Bush, "You should be ashamed." The only problem is that George Bush has no shame, he only has a record of consistently inept leadership.

If he was a real commander instead of a cheerleader he would have been charged with dereliction of duty for sending our soldiers into war without the needed intelligence, training, equipment, manpower, a plan to win, or a plan to leave. He finally just admitted that he underestimated the "insurgency".

Obviously, not only is he inept, but also not very intelligent if he is just now recognizing the obvious.

What really amazes me is that anyone would actually even think of voting for Bush. :cd: