Medivac flying into hot LZs

I am taking upon myself to try and learn as much as I can about the Vietnam
war. I am 37 and when I was in school they barely brushed on the war. Just
to get it out of the way. The only thing I really knew was the image that
Hollywood presented.
Which as I am finding out is not only false but very disrespectful and
damaging to everyone that served our country honorably over there.
In the early years as detailed in Moore and Galloways book among a few
other short stories I have read in some compilation books. The medivac guys
would not fly into a hot LZ. Instead the guys depended on their slick pilots
to fly out wounded when the bullets were still flying.
My question is, did this change as the war went on? Was this an isolated
instance of them not flying into a hot LZ? Or was it this way throughout
most of the war? Who made the call if they flew in or not?

Jeff

In article , jwags
wrote:

> I am taking upon myself to try and learn as much as I can about the Vietnam
> war. I am 37 and when I was in school they barely brushed on the war. Just
> to get it out of the way. The only thing I really knew was the image that
> Hollywood presented.
> Which as I am finding out is not only false but very disrespectful and
> damaging to everyone that served our country honorably over there.
> In the early years as detailed in Moore and Galloways book among a few
> other short stories I have read in some compilation books. The medivac guys
> would not fly into a hot LZ. Instead the guys depended on their slick pilots
> to fly out wounded when the bullets were still flying.
> My question is, did this change as the war went on? Was this an isolated
> instance of them not flying into a hot LZ? Or was it this way throughout
> most of the war? Who made the call if they flew in or not?
>
> Jeff

You seem to have a knack for reading things into a book that simply
aren't there. There are two references to MEDEVAC aircraft in the book
and neither says that "...the MEDEVAC guys would not fly into a hot
LZ". The reason that there is no such statement is that it is simply
untrue. Despite the tiny sliver of the total pilot population
represented by MEDEVAC pilots, two of the four Medals of Honor awarded
to helicopter pilots in Vietnam went to DUSTOFF pilots. Try doing some
homework at http://www.dustoff.org--Tell Joe Doc that I sent you.
Meanwhile:

NOVOSEL, MICHAEL J.

Rank and organization: Chief Warrant Officer, U.S. Army, 82d Medical
Detachment, 45th Medical Company, 68th Medical Group. Place and date:
Kien Tuong Province, Republic of Vietnam, 2 October 1969. Entered
service at: Kenner, La. Born: 3 September 1922, Etna, Pa. Citation: For
conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life
above and beyond the call of duty. CWO Novosel, 82d Medical Detachment,
distinguished himself while serving as commander of a medical
evacuation helicopter. He unhesitatingly maneuvered his helicopter into
a heavily fortified and defended enemy training area where a group of
wounded Vietnamese soldiers were pinned down by a large enemy force.
Flying without gunship or other cover and exposed to intense machinegun
fire, CWO Novosel was able to locate and rescue a wounded soldier.
Since all communications with the beleaguered troops had been lost, he
repeatedly circled the battle area, flying at low level under
continuous heavy fire, to attract the attention of the scattered
friendly troops. This display of courage visibly raised their morale,
as they recognized this as a signal to assemble for evacuation. On 6
occasions he and his crew were forced out of the battle area by the
intense enemy fire, only to circle and return from another direction to
land and extract additional troops. Near the end of the mission, a
wounded soldier was spotted close to an enemy bunker. Fully realizing
that he would attract a hail of enemy fire, CWO Novosel nevertheless
attempted the extraction by hovering the helicopter backward. As the
man was pulled on aboard, enemy automatic weapons opened fire at close
range, damaged the aircraft and wounded CWO Novosel. He momentarily
lost control of the aircraft, but quickly recovered and departed under
the withering enemy fire. In all, 15 extremely hazardous extractions
were performed in order to remove wounded personnel. As a direct result
of his selfless conduct, the lives of 29 soldiers were saved. The
extraordinary heroism displayed by CWO Novosel was an inspiration to
his comrades in arms and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and the
U.S. Army.

"jwags" wrote in message
news:KvYVa.23018$YN5.21275@sccrnsc01...
> I am taking upon myself to try and learn as much as I can about the
Vietnam
> war. I am 37 and when I was in school they barely brushed on the war. Just
> to get it out of the way. The only thing I really knew was the image that
> Hollywood presented.
> Which as I am finding out is not only false but very disrespectful and
> damaging to everyone that served our country honorably over there.
> In the early years as detailed in Moore and Galloways book among a few
> other short stories I have read in some compilation books. The medivac
guys
> would not fly into a hot LZ. Instead the guys depended on their slick
pilots
> to fly out wounded when the bullets were still flying.
> My question is, did this change as the war went on? Was this an isolated
> instance of them not flying into a hot LZ? Or was it this way throughout
> most of the war? Who made the call if they flew in or not?
>
> Jeff

Jeff, don't think that there was a policy that cover all AOs at all times.
A lot depended on who was flying, who was calling for medevac, what the
enemy situation was, what time of day it was, and so on.

ted
>
>
>

>In all, 15 extremely hazardous extractions
>were performed in order to remove wounded personnel.


Jeeeeeezus.
---
Alan

This is exactly why I asked.
Because I don't know.
And there was SEVERAL referances in that book saying that they did not
depend on medivac but instead relied on their own huey crews to evac
wounded. Several, as in more than two.
I have been around usenet long enough to know there is always a few people
in every group that feel the need to jump someones shit over anything they
feel they can justify.
If you notice I asked if this was an isloated incident. Implying that I did
not believe this was true all of the time. But thought perhaps varied with
who where and when.
I also was referring to a few other stories I have read online and in some
books of short stories.
Relax man....

jeff


"John?] "
wrote in message
news:300720032031177396%jmerk06@earthlink.net...
> In article , jwags
> wrote:
>
> > I am taking upon myself to try and learn as much as I can about the
Vietnam
> > war. I am 37 and when I was in school they barely brushed on the war.
Just
> > to get it out of the way. The only thing I really knew was the image
that
> > Hollywood presented.
> > Which as I am finding out is not only false but very disrespectful and
> > damaging to everyone that served our country honorably over there.
> > In the early years as detailed in Moore and Galloways book among a few
> > other short stories I have read in some compilation books. The medivac
guys
> > would not fly into a hot LZ. Instead the guys depended on their slick
pilots
> > to fly out wounded when the bullets were still flying.
> > My question is, did this change as the war went on? Was this an
isolated
> > instance of them not flying into a hot LZ? Or was it this way throughout
> > most of the war? Who made the call if they flew in or not?
> >
> > Jeff
>
> You seem to have a knack for reading things into a book that simply
> aren't there. There are two references to MEDEVAC aircraft in the book
> and neither says that "...the MEDEVAC guys would not fly into a hot
> LZ". The reason that there is no such statement is that it is simply
> untrue. Despite the tiny sliver of the total pilot population
> represented by MEDEVAC pilots, two of the four Medals of Honor awarded
> to helicopter pilots in Vietnam went to DUSTOFF pilots. Try doing some
> homework at http://www.dustoff.org--Tell Joe Doc that I sent you.
> Meanwhile:
>
> NOVOSEL, MICHAEL J.
>
> Rank and organization: Chief Warrant Officer, U.S. Army, 82d Medical
> Detachment, 45th Medical Company, 68th Medical Group. Place and date:
> Kien Tuong Province, Republic of Vietnam, 2 October 1969. Entered
> service at: Kenner, La. Born: 3 September 1922, Etna, Pa. Citation: For
> conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life
> above and beyond the call of duty. CWO Novosel, 82d Medical Detachment,
> distinguished himself while serving as commander of a medical
> evacuation helicopter. He unhesitatingly maneuvered his helicopter into
> a heavily fortified and defended enemy training area where a group of
> wounded Vietnamese soldiers were pinned down by a large enemy force.
> Flying without gunship or other cover and exposed to intense machinegun
> fire, CWO Novosel was able to locate and rescue a wounded soldier.
> Since all communications with the beleaguered troops had been lost, he
> repeatedly circled the battle area, flying at low level under
> continuous heavy fire, to attract the attention of the scattered
> friendly troops. This display of courage visibly raised their morale,
> as they recognized this as a signal to assemble for evacuation. On 6
> occasions he and his crew were forced out of the battle area by the
> intense enemy fire, only to circle and return from another direction to
> land and extract additional troops. Near the end of the mission, a
> wounded soldier was spotted close to an enemy bunker. Fully realizing
> that he would attract a hail of enemy fire, CWO Novosel nevertheless
> attempted the extraction by hovering the helicopter backward. As the
> man was pulled on aboard, enemy automatic weapons opened fire at close
> range, damaged the aircraft and wounded CWO Novosel. He momentarily
> lost control of the aircraft, but quickly recovered and departed under
> the withering enemy fire. In all, 15 extremely hazardous extractions
> were performed in order to remove wounded personnel. As a direct result
> of his selfless conduct, the lives of 29 soldiers were saved. The
> extraordinary heroism displayed by CWO Novosel was an inspiration to
> his comrades in arms and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and the
> U.S. Army.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:02:10 GMT, "jwags"
wrote:

> This is exactly why I asked.
> Because I don't know.
> And there was SEVERAL referances in that book saying that they did not
>depend on medivac but instead relied on their own huey crews to evac
>wounded. Several, as in more than two.
> I have been around usenet long enough to know there is always a few people
>in every group that feel the need to jump someones shit over anything they
>feel they can justify.
> If you notice I asked if this was an isloated incident. Implying that I did
>not believe this was true all of the time. But thought perhaps varied with
>who where and when.
> I also was referring to a few other stories I have read online and in some
>books of short stories.
> Relax man....
>
> jeff
Your right. Ask away and maybe we can help you out. Lot of itchy
trigger fingers here. Longer you are here, the more you will see why.
I will suggest one thing though. Read about Marines, that way you can
concentrate on the basics instead of how the doggies do it.

They had so many doggies over there you never knew what the hell they
might do in any given situation.

"Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups."
-John Kenneth Galbraith


>
>"John?] "
> wrote in message
>news:300720032031177396%jmerk06@earthlink.net...
>> In article , jwags
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I am taking upon myself to try and learn as much as I can about the
>Vietnam
>> > war. I am 37 and when I was in school they barely brushed on the war.
>Just
>> > to get it out of the way. The only thing I really knew was the image
>that
>> > Hollywood presented.
>> > Which as I am finding out is not only false but very disrespectful and
>> > damaging to everyone that served our country honorably over there.
>> > In the early years as detailed in Moore and Galloways book among a few
>> > other short stories I have read in some compilation books. The medivac
>guys
>> > would not fly into a hot LZ. Instead the guys depended on their slick
>pilots
>> > to fly out wounded when the bullets were still flying.
>> > My question is, did this change as the war went on? Was this an
>isolated
>> > instance of them not flying into a hot LZ? Or was it this way throughout
>> > most of the war? Who made the call if they flew in or not?
>> >
>> > Jeff
>>
>> You seem to have a knack for reading things into a book that simply
>> aren't there. There are two references to MEDEVAC aircraft in the book
>> and neither says that "...the MEDEVAC guys would not fly into a hot
>> LZ". The reason that there is no such statement is that it is simply
>> untrue. Despite the tiny sliver of the total pilot population
>> represented by MEDEVAC pilots, two of the four Medals of Honor awarded
>> to helicopter pilots in Vietnam went to DUSTOFF pilots. Try doing some
>> homework at http://www.dustoff.org--Tell Joe Doc that I sent you.
>> Meanwhile:
>>
>> NOVOSEL, MICHAEL J.
>>
>> Rank and organization: Chief Warrant Officer, U.S. Army, 82d Medical
>> Detachment, 45th Medical Company, 68th Medical Group. Place and date:
>> Kien Tuong Province, Republic of Vietnam, 2 October 1969. Entered
>> service at: Kenner, La. Born: 3 September 1922, Etna, Pa. Citation: For
>> conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life
>> above and beyond the call of duty. CWO Novosel, 82d Medical Detachment,
>> distinguished himself while serving as commander of a medical
>> evacuation helicopter. He unhesitatingly maneuvered his helicopter into
>> a heavily fortified and defended enemy training area where a group of
>> wounded Vietnamese soldiers were pinned down by a large enemy force.
>> Flying without gunship or other cover and exposed to intense machinegun
>> fire, CWO Novosel was able to locate and rescue a wounded soldier.
>> Since all communications with the beleaguered troops had been lost, he
>> repeatedly circled the battle area, flying at low level under
>> continuous heavy fire, to attract the attention of the scattered
>> friendly troops. This display of courage visibly raised their morale,
>> as they recognized this as a signal to assemble for evacuation. On 6
>> occasions he and his crew were forced out of the battle area by the
>> intense enemy fire, only to circle and return from another direction to
>> land and extract additional troops. Near the end of the mission, a
>> wounded soldier was spotted close to an enemy bunker. Fully realizing
>> that he would attract a hail of enemy fire, CWO Novosel nevertheless
>> attempted the extraction by hovering the helicopter backward. As the
>> man was pulled on aboard, enemy automatic weapons opened fire at close
>> range, damaged the aircraft and wounded CWO Novosel. He momentarily
>> lost control of the aircraft, but quickly recovered and departed under
>> the withering enemy fire. In all, 15 extremely hazardous extractions
>> were performed in order to remove wounded personnel. As a direct result
>> of his selfless conduct, the lives of 29 soldiers were saved. The
>> extraordinary heroism displayed by CWO Novosel was an inspiration to
>> his comrades in arms and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and the
>> U.S. Army.
>

Go back an read what you wrote; it's just below.

You made a statement of *fact* that you read in Moore and Galloways
book that "The medivac(sic) guys would not fly into a hot LZ", but when
called upon to back it up, you make vague references to vague
statements in the book and other vague references to other unnamed
books and stories. When you attribute a statement like that to an
author, you should be prepared to back it up with an exact quote. It
has nothing to do with jumping in anyones shit, it has to do with
telling the truth, which you seem to have a problem with. You made a
statement that is simply untrue and now you are attempting to waffle
your way out of it.

When an aircraft goes into a hot LZ to drop off food or water or ammo
or any of a hundred things, it's dumb for it to leave empty and then to
risk another ship to haul wounded. You bring the cargo in and haul the
wounded out; it's simply efficient utilization of assets. If there are
no unit aircraft in the vicinity, call Dustoff. I've never heard of
them refusing a mission. If there are wounded who need help, you just
go and ask questions later. I've been hailed on the emergency channel
to pick up wounded just because someone saw us fly over and took a
chance that we were monitoring it. If we had the fuel to divert to the
nearest evac hospital, we never turned down a request. Any helicopter
crew, DUSTOFF or not, would do likewise.

If you have legitimate questions ask them, but don't make statements
you can't back up.

....and if I were any more relaxed, I'd be asleep.

John Mercadante
B-7/1 Air Cav, 1970-71









In article <6x0Wa.15726$cF.7395@rwcrnsc53>, jwags
wrote:

> This is exactly why I asked.
> Because I don't know.
> And there was SEVERAL referances in that book saying that they did not
> depend on medivac but instead relied on their own huey crews to evac
> wounded. Several, as in more than two.
> I have been around usenet long enough to know there is always a few people
> in every group that feel the need to jump someones shit over anything they
> feel they can justify.
> If you notice I asked if this was an isloated incident. Implying that I did
> not believe this was true all of the time. But thought perhaps varied with
> who where and when.
> I also was referring to a few other stories I have read online and in some
> books of short stories.
> Relax man....
>
> jeff
>
>
> "John?] "
> wrote in message
> news:300720032031177396%jmerk06@earthlink.net...
> > In article , jwags
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I am taking upon myself to try and learn as much as I can about the
> Vietnam
> > > war. I am 37 and when I was in school they barely brushed on the war.
> Just
> > > to get it out of the way. The only thing I really knew was the image
> that
> > > Hollywood presented.
> > > Which as I am finding out is not only false but very disrespectful and
> > > damaging to everyone that served our country honorably over there.
> > > In the early years as detailed in Moore and Galloways book among a few
> > > other short stories I have read in some compilation books. The medivac
> guys
> > > would not fly into a hot LZ. Instead the guys depended on their slick
> pilots
> > > to fly out wounded when the bullets were still flying.
> > > My question is, did this change as the war went on? Was this an
> isolated
> > > instance of them not flying into a hot LZ? Or was it this way throughout
> > > most of the war? Who made the call if they flew in or not?
> > >
> > > Jeff
> >
> > You seem to have a knack for reading things into a book that simply
> > aren't there. There are two references to MEDEVAC aircraft in the book
> > and neither says that "...the MEDEVAC guys would not fly into a hot
> > LZ". The reason that there is no such statement is that it is simply
> > untrue. Despite the tiny sliver of the total pilot population
> > represented by MEDEVAC pilots, two of the four Medals of Honor awarded
> > to helicopter pilots in Vietnam went to DUSTOFF pilots. Try doing some
> > homework at http://www.dustoff.org--Tell Joe Doc that I sent you.
> > Meanwhile:
> >
> > NOVOSEL, MICHAEL J.
> >
> > Rank and organization: Chief Warrant Officer, U.S. Army, 82d Medical
> > Detachment, 45th Medical Company, 68th Medical Group. Place and date:
> > Kien Tuong Province, Republic of Vietnam, 2 October 1969. Entered
> > service at: Kenner, La. Born: 3 September 1922, Etna, Pa. Citation: For
> > conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life
> > above and beyond the call of duty. CWO Novosel, 82d Medical Detachment,
> > distinguished himself while serving as commander of a medical
> > evacuation helicopter. He unhesitatingly maneuvered his helicopter into
> > a heavily fortified and defended enemy training area where a group of
> > wounded Vietnamese soldiers were pinned down by a large enemy force.
> > Flying without gunship or other cover and exposed to intense machinegun
> > fire, CWO Novosel was able to locate and rescue a wounded soldier.
> > Since all communications with the beleaguered troops had been lost, he
> > repeatedly circled the battle area, flying at low level under
> > continuous heavy fire, to attract the attention of the scattered
> > friendly troops. This display of courage visibly raised their morale,
> > as they recognized this as a signal to assemble for evacuation. On 6
> > occasions he and his crew were forced out of the battle area by the
> > intense enemy fire, only to circle and return from another direction to
> > land and extract additional troops. Near the end of the mission, a
> > wounded soldier was spotted close to an enemy bunker. Fully realizing
> > that he would attract a hail of enemy fire, CWO Novosel nevertheless
> > attempted the extraction by hovering the helicopter backward. As the
> > man was pulled on aboard, enemy automatic weapons opened fire at close
> > range, damaged the aircraft and wounded CWO Novosel. He momentarily
> > lost control of the aircraft, but quickly recovered and departed under
> > the withering enemy fire. In all, 15 extremely hazardous extractions
> > were performed in order to remove wounded personnel. As a direct result
> > of his selfless conduct, the lives of 29 soldiers were saved. The
> > extraordinary heroism displayed by CWO Novosel was an inspiration to
> > his comrades in arms and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and the
> > U.S. Army.

No, the entire 52D was there and had a few surprises
West of the Mastiff.
Try W.E.B Griffiths/sic/ ' The Aviators. '
Boring, but the beginning is good.
I only heard Rumors of not going in, I know of
none who ever did that. Some of the books that state it
have been found to be by Wannabes....
If you don't want to Fly the Army will put you into maintaining
Air Craft. Failing that you become a Stevedore and came
home very, very wealthy.

Flying is a Volunteer job for Pilots and Crew
they get paid with Lead Coins.


"jwags" wrote in message news:6x0Wa.15726$cF.7395@rwcrnsc53...
> This is exactly why I asked.
> Because I don't know.
> And there was SEVERAL referances in that book saying that they did not
> depend on medivac but instead relied on their own huey crews to evac
> wounded. Several, as in more than two.
> I have been around usenet long enough to know there is always a few people
> in every group that feel the need to jump someones shit over anything they
> feel they can justify.
> If you notice I asked if this was an isloated incident. Implying that I did
> not believe this was true all of the time. But thought perhaps varied with
> who where and when.
> I also was referring to a few other stories I have read online and in some
> books of short stories.
> Relax man....
>
> jeff
>
>
> "John?] "
> wrote in message
> news:300720032031177396%jmerk06@earthlink.net...
> > In article , jwags
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I am taking upon myself to try and learn as much as I can about the
> Vietnam
> > > war. I am 37 and when I was in school they barely brushed on the war.
> Just
> > > to get it out of the way. The only thing I really knew was the image
> that
> > > Hollywood presented.
> > > Which as I am finding out is not only false but very disrespectful and
> > > damaging to everyone that served our country honorably over there.
> > > In the early years as detailed in Moore and Galloways book among a few
> > > other short stories I have read in some compilation books. The medivac
> guys
> > > would not fly into a hot LZ. Instead the guys depended on their slick
> pilots
> > > to fly out wounded when the bullets were still flying.
> > > My question is, did this change as the war went on? Was this an
> isolated
> > > instance of them not flying into a hot LZ? Or was it this way throughout
> > > most of the war? Who made the call if they flew in or not?
> > >
> > > Jeff
> >
> > You seem to have a knack for reading things into a book that simply
> > aren't there. There are two references to MEDEVAC aircraft in the book
> > and neither says that "...the MEDEVAC guys would not fly into a hot
> > LZ". The reason that there is no such statement is that it is simply
> > untrue. Despite the tiny sliver of the total pilot population
> > represented by MEDEVAC pilots, two of the four Medals of Honor awarded
> > to helicopter pilots in Vietnam went to DUSTOFF pilots. Try doing some
> > homework at http://www.dustoff.org--Tell Joe Doc that I sent you.
> > Meanwhile:
> >
> > NOVOSEL, MICHAEL J.
> >
> > Rank and organization: Chief Warrant Officer, U.S. Army, 82d Medical
> > Detachment, 45th Medical Company, 68th Medical Group. Place and date:
> > Kien Tuong Province, Republic of Vietnam, 2 October 1969. Entered
> > service at: Kenner, La. Born: 3 September 1922, Etna, Pa. Citation: For
> > conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life
> > above and beyond the call of duty. CWO Novosel, 82d Medical Detachment,
> > distinguished himself while serving as commander of a medical
> > evacuation helicopter. He unhesitatingly maneuvered his helicopter into
> > a heavily fortified and defended enemy training area where a group of
> > wounded Vietnamese soldiers were pinned down by a large enemy force.
> > Flying without gunship or other cover and exposed to intense machinegun
> > fire, CWO Novosel was able to locate and rescue a wounded soldier.
> > Since all communications with the beleaguered troops had been lost, he
> > repeatedly circled the battle area, flying at low level under
> > continuous heavy fire, to attract the attention of the scattered
> > friendly troops. This display of courage visibly raised their morale,
> > as they recognized this as a signal to assemble for evacuation. On 6
> > occasions he and his crew were forced out of the battle area by the
> > intense enemy fire, only to circle and return from another direction to
> > land and extract additional troops. Near the end of the mission, a
> > wounded soldier was spotted close to an enemy bunker. Fully realizing
> > that he would attract a hail of enemy fire, CWO Novosel nevertheless
> > attempted the extraction by hovering the helicopter backward. As the
> > man was pulled on aboard, enemy automatic weapons opened fire at close
> > range, damaged the aircraft and wounded CWO Novosel. He momentarily
> > lost control of the aircraft, but quickly recovered and departed under
> > the withering enemy fire. In all, 15 extremely hazardous extractions
> > were performed in order to remove wounded personnel. As a direct result
> > of his selfless conduct, the lives of 29 soldiers were saved. The
> > extraordinary heroism displayed by CWO Novosel was an inspiration to
> > his comrades in arms and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and the
> > U.S. Army.
>
>

Here ya go..my statement of "fact"

Page 107, we were soldiers once, and young

" Hauling the wounded off the battlefield was a medical evacuation
helicopter mission. But this was early in the war and the medivac commanders
had decreed that thier birds would not land in hot landing zones- or in
other words, that they would not go were they were needed."

Now exactly how would you interpret that statement?

This is why I asked if this was an isolated incident or something that
changed throughout the war.
I was not assuming that they would not risk themselves, but asking what
really happened based on the statement made in the book.

Now what exactly is wrong with that?

I have nothing but respect for all you guys that served over there. I am
but a few that are taking the time to find out the real story, from the
people that were there. I may ask a few stupid questions. But I am not
meaning any disrespect by it. If I didn't give a shit I wouldn't be here. It
sounds like I could learn alot from you. And I would like to. If given the
chance.

Jeff



"John?] "
wrote in message
news:310720030005019144%jmerk06@earthlink.net...
>
> Go back an read what you wrote; it's just below.
>
> You made a statement of *fact* that you read in Moore and Galloways
> book that "The medivac(sic) guys would not fly into a hot LZ", but when
> called upon to back it up, you make vague references to vague
> statements in the book and other vague references to other unnamed
> books and stories. When you attribute a statement like that to an
> author, you should be prepared to back it up with an exact quote. It
> has nothing to do with jumping in anyones shit, it has to do with
> telling the truth, which you seem to have a problem with. You made a
> statement that is simply untrue and now you are attempting to waffle
> your way out of it.
>
> When an aircraft goes into a hot LZ to drop off food or water or ammo
> or any of a hundred things, it's dumb for it to leave empty and then to
> risk another ship to haul wounded. You bring the cargo in and haul the
> wounded out; it's simply efficient utilization of assets. If there are
> no unit aircraft in the vicinity, call Dustoff. I've never heard of
> them refusing a mission. If there are wounded who need help, you just
> go and ask questions later. I've been hailed on the emergency channel
> to pick up wounded just because someone saw us fly over and took a
> chance that we were monitoring it. If we had the fuel to divert to the
> nearest evac hospital, we never turned down a request. Any helicopter
> crew, DUSTOFF or not, would do likewise.
>
> If you have legitimate questions ask them, but don't make statements
> you can't back up.
>
> ...and if I were any more relaxed, I'd be asleep.
>
> John Mercadante
> B-7/1 Air Cav, 1970-71
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In article <6x0Wa.15726$cF.7395@rwcrnsc53>, jwags
> wrote:
>
> > This is exactly why I asked.
> > Because I don't know.
> > And there was SEVERAL referances in that book saying that they did not
> > depend on medivac but instead relied on their own huey crews to evac
> > wounded. Several, as in more than two.
> > I have been around usenet long enough to know there is always a few
people
> > in every group that feel the need to jump someones shit over anything
they
> > feel they can justify.
> > If you notice I asked if this was an isloated incident. Implying that I
did
> > not believe this was true all of the time. But thought perhaps varied
with
> > who where and when.
> > I also was referring to a few other stories I have read online and in
some
> > books of short stories.
> > Relax man....
> >
> > jeff
> >
> >
> > "John?]
"
> > wrote in message
> > news:300720032031177396%jmerk06@earthlink.net...
> > > In article , jwags
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am taking upon myself to try and learn as much as I can about the
> > Vietnam
> > > > war. I am 37 and when I was in school they barely brushed on the
war.
> > Just
> > > > to get it out of the way. The only thing I really knew was the image
> > that
> > > > Hollywood presented.
> > > > Which as I am finding out is not only false but very disrespectful
and
> > > > damaging to everyone that served our country honorably over there.
> > > > In the early years as detailed in Moore and Galloways book among a
few
> > > > other short stories I have read in some compilation books. The
medivac
> > guys
> > > > would not fly into a hot LZ. Instead the guys depended on their
slick
> > pilots
> > > > to fly out wounded when the bullets were still flying.
> > > > My question is, did this change as the war went on? Was this an
> > isolated
> > > > instance of them not flying into a hot LZ? Or was it this way
throughout
> > > > most of the war? Who made the call if they flew in or not?
> > > >
> > > > Jeff
> > >
> > > You seem to have a knack for reading things into a book that simply
> > > aren't there. There are two references to MEDEVAC aircraft in the
book
> > > and neither says that "...the MEDEVAC guys would not fly into a hot
> > > LZ". The reason that there is no such statement is that it is simply
> > > untrue. Despite the tiny sliver of the total pilot population
> > > represented by MEDEVAC pilots, two of the four Medals of Honor awarded
> > > to helicopter pilots in Vietnam went to DUSTOFF pilots. Try doing
some
> > > homework at http://www.dustoff.org--Tell Joe Doc that I sent you.
> > > Meanwhile:
> > >
> > > NOVOSEL, MICHAEL J.
> > >
> > > Rank and organization: Chief Warrant Officer, U.S. Army, 82d Medical
> > > Detachment, 45th Medical Company, 68th Medical Group. Place and date:
> > > Kien Tuong Province, Republic of Vietnam, 2 October 1969. Entered
> > > service at: Kenner, La. Born: 3 September 1922, Etna, Pa. Citation:
For
> > > conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his
life
> > > above and beyond the call of duty. CWO Novosel, 82d Medical
Detachment,
> > > distinguished himself while serving as commander of a medical
> > > evacuation helicopter. He unhesitatingly maneuvered his helicopter
into
> > > a heavily fortified and defended enemy training area where a group of
> > > wounded Vietnamese soldiers were pinned down by a large enemy force.
> > > Flying without gunship or other cover and exposed to intense
machinegun
> > > fire, CWO Novosel was able to locate and rescue a wounded soldier.
> > > Since all communications with the beleaguered troops had been lost, he
> > > repeatedly circled the battle area, flying at low level under
> > > continuous heavy fire, to attract the attention of the scattered
> > > friendly troops. This display of courage visibly raised their morale,
> > > as they recognized this as a signal to assemble for evacuation. On 6
> > > occasions he and his crew were forced out of the battle area by the
> > > intense enemy fire, only to circle and return from another direction
to
> > > land and extract additional troops. Near the end of the mission, a
> > > wounded soldier was spotted close to an enemy bunker. Fully realizing
> > > that he would attract a hail of enemy fire, CWO Novosel nevertheless
> > > attempted the extraction by hovering the helicopter backward. As the
> > > man was pulled on aboard, enemy automatic weapons opened fire at close
> > > range, damaged the aircraft and wounded CWO Novosel. He momentarily
> > > lost control of the aircraft, but quickly recovered and departed under
> > > the withering enemy fire. In all, 15 extremely hazardous extractions
> > > were performed in order to remove wounded personnel. As a direct
result
> > > of his selfless conduct, the lives of 29 soldiers were saved. The
> > > extraordinary heroism displayed by CWO Novosel was an inspiration to
> > > his comrades in arms and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and
the
> > > U.S. Army.

>Was this an isolated
>instance of them not flying into a hot LZ? Or was it this way throughout
>most of the war? Who made the call if they flew in or not?
>

Jeff,

The pilot made the call. It was his deciscion to risk aircraft and crew going
into a hot LZ. The medevac pilots in my AO and timeframe most certainly risked
mucho hauling out our wounded. C & C (command & control - the battalion
commander) and Utility (resupply) choppers also picked up wounded.

But the medevac pilots devised extraordinary flying techniques to quickly get
in and out of hot LZs. You might visit the VHPA website (Vietnam Helicopter
Pilot Association) for further information.

Best Regards

Greg