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Old 09-05-2002, 07:52 PM
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BLUEHAWK BLUEHAWK is offline
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Post Honoring american flags


A possible thread toward healing, if it flies?
It is the tradition here in a nearby southern Missouri village to allow graduating seniors the painting of large murals on the street near school. So long as the images are within moral/legal boundaries no censorship is exercised. But last Spring, a group of girls and boys chose to present a confederate battle flag, the same scale as all the other murals. For weeks thereafter the expected tumult went back and forth in news and editorial pages. To their credit the kids, their parents and the school held fast throughout the storm. None of the comments offered had anything at all to do with the flag nor with the Civil War as it was. The kids and the flag were villified. But, Missouri was a border state before hostilities in 1860, and seceded only to have the legislature chased down to this end of our territory for the duration. A federal unionist replacement was imposed.
Not many years ago an otherwise arguably effective senator from Illinois stood before her colleagues in the chamber and demanded, to vociferous acclaim, withdrawal of a recognition customarily given to Daughters of the Confederacy on the grounds, mainly, that the Confederate flag was part of their emblem. She lost her next election.
The battle flag, as it is commonly understood,
is NOT the "stars and bars", though most think it is. Almost no history is taught, and is not allowed to be taught, which would be equivalent with teachings as to the evolution of our stars and stripes. Yet, under both banners our fallen died for freedom, are buried in our soil, and came from families who will always remember. Generally speaking, both sides acknowledged this true union at the time and during the conflict.
Last September 12th I joined in solidarity with other americans in defiantly flying the stars and stripes which had draped a family member's casket at his military funeral. However, as if to say, "We are ALL americans", I also proudly flew a mid-sized Confederate banner. They flew together.
Post-Reconstruction era associations with which the battle flag has been linked are probably, one surmises, a major cause of the emblem being scorned so vehemently. Yet, victors and vanquished live side by side still today in common purpose.
The thread then...What might be the best way, if any, to alter course so that our children are taught to honor BOTH flags as american?
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  #2  
Old 09-13-2002, 09:03 PM
chilidog chilidog is offline
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I have started a reply to this thread 3 times and have erased it every time. Why can't people just get along?

Chilidog
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Old 09-30-2002, 08:04 PM
Mike Bell Mike Bell is offline
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Chili,
Took awhile for the snafus to depart the imac here...was thinking the very same thing when
I attempted this thread in the first place. Having just seen all of Ken Burns' CIVIL WAR series
again, it'd be pretty hard to have anything else to say on the topic.
However, it seemed worth a try.
Bluehawk
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Old 10-08-2002, 10:04 AM
QuangTri-FO QuangTri-FO is offline
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Bluehawk,
Well written...well said !

I'm in Indiana, but one of my ancestors is buried under the bank in Salem (Dent County) ...when the town decided to move the little graveyard(graves) from what had become downtown... They moved the headstones....ha ha ha and not the bodies!
...so now there is a bank there.... on my Confederate ancestor
.....sad thing is that after the little battle...his farm was raided, and from that his young wife died, and a newborn baby(girl)
....only thier 3 year old son Douglas survived.
....Not just because f or this but for the general reasoning,
and way they conducted the war...The Yankees have NOTHING to brag on. ....and Todays government ...has a lot to hide...
....excuses...excuses... there is nothing to chang the fact that
the Southrens had every legal right to leave the union ...and the US Government no legal grounds to wage the war that they did.
Fact-is-fact ...and that is that the North commited a major crime that resulted in hundreds of thousands of death... Not just in and at the time of the socaller Civil War ...but thru many of the following years... , Well beyond the official "RECONSTRUCTION" years but ..but most pronounced in such as Pellagra rampant in the Southern States during the depression years. (just one small example of how the illegal
war and poverty that the North brought upon the South ...kept right on killing! ....Freed some ...and disposed of democracy and freedom ...giving in its place...Federalisim and an ilusion of some freedom.
I'm not much of a writter ...but I dammed sure read ...and its all in the records ....Not Southern records ...But records written by the Yankee government's own officials.
Carl ( QuangTri-FO )
FO ...Viet~Nam DMZ 02APR69 - 20OCT70
PS My son proudly serves ...Just came back from Pakistan with two fractured disks in his back....We have a better country than most ... But Northern Politically Correct Types ...should learn That they can NOt continue to slander our Southern Confederate ancestors and our kin folk...lie about history
...and condem them ...and us! for honoring our ancestors both
legal and moral right to leave the Union in peace ...when thier own waged a hidious, illegal war ..that was all of that ...and Illegal. ....Lets talk about Lincoln...?????
Though I served and my son does now serve
...I do not fly the US Flag...out of protest, and fly the 3rd Nat'l CS Flag
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Old 10-08-2002, 02:05 PM
Mike Bell Mike Bell is offline
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QuangTri-FO,
Your comments are understood. Though I go pretty much with what Chili said, it sure wouldn't hurt our national unanimity to at least come up to the acceptance those who fought that war arrived at when it was over, rather than keep on fighting it, or making things worse. A certain flag will always fly in our hearts.
Bluehawk USAF, 1963-66, C-123 & C-47 flight crew member
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Old 10-08-2002, 07:12 PM
chilidog chilidog is offline
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Every kid in Texas learns the six flags of Texas history in school. They are: France, Spain, Mexico, Texas, USA, CSA, then USA again. These six flags are flown in front of the Six-Flags amusement parks. Nobody fusses over these flags. The Mexican flag is everywhere I look in Texas. In windows, bumper stickers on cars....Nobody complains....I take it as showing your heritage. Recognizing your heritage doesn't mean that you agree or disagree with the political views of the times. I have an American flag at my front door and another at my back door. I hope nobody tags me with all of the prevailing political views that are flying around these days.
Lets all just get along.

Chilidog

Bluehawk, sorry I didn't get back to this sooner.
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Old 10-09-2002, 05:06 AM
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The closest town to the east of Fayetteville is Jonesboro. Some of you Civil War (is that politacally correct to say?) buffs may recall the Battle of Jonesboro where the Federals cut off the rail lines that supplied Atlanta. The rail line is still there and right beside the tracks is a Confederate States of America (CSA) military grave yard.
When we moved down here in '94 I visited that grave yard and over it proudly flew the flag that those troops fought and died for. At that time that flag flew legally but the politically correct insisted that that flag had no place in America and the flag was removed. Since 1994 the image of the CSA banner has been removed from the flag of the state of Georgia. Why? Because the politically correct threatened to remove their convention business from Atlanta and tourism business from the state if it wasn't removed. How dumb we are to be threatened and surrender our history to those who wish to delete it? Imagine if France told the US to remove its flag that proudly flies over the American cemetery on the beaches of Normandy. Would we surrender to the politacally correct of France? America was created through the spilling of blood of its soldiers and when the Father calls me home in my hand will be placed the symbol of his Son, the cross, and the box that they put me in will be drapped with the flag that I would have proudly died for.
The Stars and Bars flies proudly over the cemetery in Jonesboro again today. Surrender Hell? We've only begun to fight!
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Old 10-09-2002, 05:55 AM
bbeil bbeil is offline
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I am a red neck from Texas! But first of all I am an American who swore allegence to U.S. Flag, saluted it, raised and lowered it, folded it up correctly, and served under it in Korea. I also watched idiots burn it and disgrace it in the late 60s and into the 70s in this country under the protection of the constitution of this great country.
I don't think anyone has the right to burn our flags or books because they think they have some greater right than any other American. If a Confederate flag needs to be disposed of, what about the rising sun flag of Japan? How about the feeling of guy's at the Alamo and the Mexican flag? How about the German flags, hell we fought them twice in two world wars.
My heritage is southern, by way of Ellis Island by great-great Grandparents from Germany. I only fly the American flag, I only pay homage to the American flag. However
, I defended every americans right to fly any thing they want to regardless of the popularity of the time's.
This is a free country for everyone, bitching and moaning don't make it more free. Getting rid of history is a violation of freedom for future generations I would think.
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Old 10-09-2002, 07:04 AM
JeffL JeffL is offline
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LittleJohn said, "Imagine if France told the US to remove its flag that proudly flies over the American cemetery on the beaches of Normandy. Would we surrender to the politacally correct of France?"

I believe there is no question that our touchy, feel-good, politically correct government would immediately cave in and remove that flag. Only the senior generations in this country even understand what our flag flying over those graves means, and our young, inexperienced elected representatives don't really give a damn about us or our feelings, much less about our history and national honor. Younger generations don't know about it or understand it because they aren't taught about it in school.

Hell, Japan still teaches their kids that we were the aggressor in WWII.

Yep. We'd take down that flag if France told us to.
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Old 10-09-2002, 02:36 PM
Mike Bell Mike Bell is offline
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Chili, sp4LittleJohn, bbeil and JeffL,
Yup, that pretty well sums it up...guess sometimes it just depends on where which flag is flying and when. Good for SIX FLAGS, whole bunches of ours buried at Normandy had both in their hearts too.
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