Rumsfeld was asked -

[Boats]

On the way home from work last night I caught part of a radio show who had Rumsfeld taking some phone calls. He (Rumsfeld) said how come no women are calling the station? Well low and behold a news gal called in and she asked him this question.

Now I can't remember word for word but it went something like this: She said, How can we (the U.S.) prevent our soldiers from going into Iraq and getting involved in a conflict and then coming back home to possibly the same type of home coming our Viet Nam guys got?

She continued by saying unless the Government gave out more PR covering the reasons for going there it would be difficult for Americans to justify any losses (and there will be losses).

She also commented that he (Rumsfeld) said he had much information (secret stuff) but not for publication. She said something more (PR) had to be given out to the American people from them to understand the reasoning behind this upcoming conflict.

She said how she was not comfortable with the 1st strike action since it seems so non-American. To invade another mans country (Iraq) for possible weapons of mass destruction doesn't sit well iwth many Americans. Rumsfeld said he has much information but could not release it because of National Security issues. But that he would release information once cleared for public release.

Now I could take that to mean a couple things. First of all she's a newswoman but regardless her question is still bothers me.

We Vet's understand much of these issues but does the majority of the non-military people understand why we do what we do? What more must our government do to ensure 100% American support for these marching orders?

Our soldier's always have "our" support but our minority may not be enough to surpress any back-lash in an unpopular war.

1. How would you like to handle these issues if given the chance?
2. What are your ideas to ensure that the American majority will support any number of losses suffered as long as we can ensure them a future with domestic tranquillity?
3. How much truth is enough?

I'm thinking about all of these issue right now over and over again. :cd:

Fly The Flag

[JeffL]

I think any response should be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. That way, even media people, whom I believe have no ethics, might understand such a response.

Example: "I understand people wanting to know everything, but I will release information after the broadcasting and publication of such information will no longer adversely affect this country and its armed forces."

Information overload and "scooping" everyone else is the goal of all the media outlets. Personally, I don't want to know about one specific fact if such knowledge costs the life of even one member of our armed forces, or one of our citizens.

No matter what happens, there will be backlash. We've learned a lot since the Viet Nam era, and it will be up to us to thump anyone who fails to respect our military personnel.

But that's only my opinion.

[SEATJERKER]

...the line of thinking used to be just that, but now that we're fighting them in both places, it's a numbing effect, the "public" after 9/11 has choosin to put on blinders still saying "it can't happen to us here", but " IT HAS"...

...So with the announcement of more "terror" attacks in the works, the public makes a mental note of it, and goes about their way, but unfortunetly, IF,... I say IF... another attack takes place on American soil, you'll see the "Ugly American" really rear it's "ugly head"...

...Anyone who doesn't believe that there isn't anything as "sleeper cells" is brain dead, we've already seen several "turncoats" here in this country already, and there is more just waiting for their chance...

...Now is the time when we as Americans must admit that we do not live a glass houses, and that their evil does exist, and has inflitrated our shores, and that shit could hit the fan soon...

...I hope, and pray that I'm wrong, but from what we've seen in the last two years from around the world, I don't think so....

...lock, and load..............

[bbeil]

I do not know of any war, conflict,or police action that the military of the U.S. had authority to declare the war. It is the agitation of the news media that created a great deal of biased information about Vietnam that led to a misinformed citizenry here in the U.S. who thought the military was causing the war by being there. I am for freedom of the press until it impacts my freedom by publishing part of the truth with a slant that helps sell the news media reporting and ratings with sensationalism being the only goal.(i.e. a reporter asking a mother whose child dies, how the mother feels about it-how stupid- but tactics in reporting news)
There is no popular wars where Americans have to kill and die ! Lots of people bury their heads in the sand when a problem they had rather not face comes along, I believe that has been proven over and over.
Well, at least the draft dodgers want be whining to save their ass this time( or yet) and if and when more terrorist attacks take place right here at home again, the importance of the old saying,FREEDOM ain't FREE, might be more clearly understood by everyone that never had the opportunity to defend the liberty of others---some had more important things to do ,what with college and trips to Canada and all.

[Seascamp]

One thing I couldn?t help but notice during the VN war was that when the screaming, bleeding and dying started, all the lofty notions and political wiggle-worming seemed to evaporate like a snowball placed in the center of the sun. So, we had a lesson in screaming, bleeding and dying served up to us on 9/11 and only the media and a few politicos; or maybe more than a few, our lofty intellectuals and Hollywood elite have once again gone on to a higher plane of lofty notions and political wiggle-worming.

Given that situation, I would turn the tables around and do something so impolite as to ask them to convince me that Saddam never has or never will do harm to our citizens right in our homeland. That there will be no screaming, bleeding or dying if we just be nice to Saddam and declare him the mid-east good guy and all that kind of thing. I would ask the media and associated politicos/intellectuals/Jollywood idiotic-shits of common thought to get their butts on national TV, make their case, and present their evidence.
All this damp hand wringing, woe is we, second-guessing, Monday morning quarter backing, soothe-saying and political positioning isn?t going to save one single innocent soul in my opinion and I?d like to be convinced otherwise. So then, I?d ask who is holding back information, the Pentagon or you? If ya got a point to make, caugh it up and lets have a look at the evidence, I?d ask.

As to the question about current Vets going through the same pig slop us VN Vets went through, well, I?m afraid the die was cast long ago and there is no going back, unfortunately. A culture/society of human beings will always play follow the leader in a lot of things and over three decades ago it was made an OK cultural thing to harass, insult and demean those who served. That stuck and because it was an elite, lofty and cool thing to do, it would take far more than an infinite number of jackhammers to get that out of our culture. As we speak, the Military and media have a pistol and hand grenades at two paces relationship. No doubt in my mind at all what is driving that and exactly who is being protected from whom. Never again will the media be allowed to drive a hate a Trooper/Sailor/Marine/Airman agenda from the inside, no way. These times, I would dare any nationally prominent media or political or Hollywood person to use their positioning to dump on any serving Military person, past or present. But every once in a while I catch a slip of the tongue, stupid remark, idiotic thought, etc., so I know the bias is very well installed, it?s just not being serviced at this time.

So like Jeff says, our job now is to keep the faith with the service Guys and Gals, stand as Lions at the gate, and do our best to make sure they get to come home to a positive environment.

Scamp

[Boats]

Scamp & JeffL,

I agree 100% with all you've said. It's no longer just in are hands. We have issues of 9/11 to address as well as Daddy's Bush's Irag situation. More and more countries like us are getting sucked into this terrorism filtration. More and more
innocent people are dying. What kinda war is this?

Soldier's (if you can call them that) out of uniform are hard to ID!
It's not an oil issue - never was! It's idiology its the holy war the war of attrition. It's also the residuals of being pro-Israel.

We won't turn our backs so we will have to address this and its a war of ugly results and will take many years to root out these rascals. Sleeper's (I think Hardcore called them) can be anywhere in our borders.

They are moving in on Wazza's people, Germany and the English.
This is the ugly war of wars because you can't ID the enemy.

Sure I back our troops you'd be nuts not too. They can do the job but only if they are trained for this type of fighting. Fighting on our soil will be the toughest. Because some of the strays will be taking out our own people.

We've got to get Saddam and this other knee-jerker (Al Queda) and real quick. Pakistan is also turning because we juiced up one of their killers in Virginia today. He killed to CIA agents.

Our open door policy needs to be closed to a crack. We have to eject those visa's of those countries whose people are making war on us. Cut off their funds - send back their kids - cut off their lines of communication - and choke hold all those SOB's who started this crap. I need to see that we've accomplished something other than just sitting here typing away my frustrations over these current events.

Fly The Flag

[JeffL]

THIS will frustrate you, Boats. Colleges and universities that these foreign "students" are supposed to attend REFUSE to cooperate with the government by sending reports of which foreigners did and did not report for schooling. (What a country, huh?)

It's my opinion that we should lock down our borders. Yeah, yeah - I know. Almost impossible, huh? But why don't we at least try to do it until we get a handle on the INS, which is totally out of control, and the disastrous underfunding and undermanning of the border patrol? Put troops on the borders, and put the world on notice (in all languages, to satisfy the politically correct jerks) that we will shoot to kill intruders who violate our borders.

This a national emergency, is it not? Have we not already been invaded? Why don't we take the necessary steps to protect ourselves?

Let's do SOMETHING! NOTHING we're doing now is keeping out those who wish to destroy us.

[Boats]

JeffL,

I have to agree again. But if you and I and several thousand others know this - why in the hell isn't something being done?
This Homeland Security sounds great but what are the rules?
Who knows whats going on? Have we taken steps to protect our shores and if so why not tell us?

They should throw out some facts - numbers - make it clear that yes we've done this we've done that - but nothing - nothing is ever said other than we have a daily YELLOW Warning has Hardcore so nicely puts it.

[JeffL]

Nothing's being done because the politically correct, liberal establishment won't allow ANY person from ANY country to not be allowed entrance into this country. After all, that would be discriminatory, would it not?

We're supposed to provide shelter and water for illegals from Mexico who travel through the deserts of our southwest. This country has bowed to political correctness and in so doing it has lost its direction and purpose.

The primary responsibility of our government is to protect us. Is it doing so? SEAL THE FRIGGIN' BORDERS!!!!!!!!

It's known that Mexican armed forces have accompanied Mexican drug runners into Arizona and fired on a border patrol agent that tried to intercept them. The attack blew out most of the windows in the agent's vehicle. But so what? There's a collective shrug of the government's shoulders, and the story is buried.

It seems to me that voices of reason have become cries in the wilderness created by liberalism.

[Boats]

JeffL,

Listen to us both. Who would've thought we'd be in this position and so naive for so long. America is the home of the brave and yes we used to take in those who wanted a political freedoms but here we are.

Backs to the wall and everyone just wondering what the hell happen! 9/11 was so gut wrenching that even today I'm sick over it. All those people all those city personnel and all that heart break just sticks in my mind like it was yesterday.

I just wish I wasn't so damn old because I'd enlist again and at least then I would feel like I'm doing something. We who were must now depend on others and I'm uncomfortable with that statement.

Whose watching my back? Whose watching yours? Whose going to tell us when its over? It will never be over now because they've found a weakness in the system and it plays into their game plan.

I ain't thrown in the towel I'm just pissed because it happen to us and not someone else. I'm also pissed because we didn't see the writing on the wall and got sucked in to another one of these conflicts.

But no one is stepping up to take responsibility. I would if I was the guilty party. The next go around will be pretty grim. There's so much talk about what they can do and what they will do - so I'm not exactly a happy camper waiting for the big surprise to happen.