The River, The Mission, The Ambush Washington Post Graphic

[Arrow]

I tried to down size but the print was to small. Again I am unable to link to url....

[SuperScout]

Destroying a rice cache with a grenade speaks to the lunacy of having an untrained squid on shore, conducting this type of operation. Or if he fired an M-79 round at the cache, (1) how could he see it from the boat, (2) if he was not on the boat, who was in charge, (3) didn't any of his crew have any better idea of how to destroy a rice cache? The whole scene smacks of a rank amateur, conducting a operation more suited to ground forces.

And I go back to the very questionable and tardy arrival of James Rassmann, waiting an incredible 30+ years before finding his rescurer, and expressing his gratitude. How very convenient, how very touching, to have this veteran suddenly show up on Kerry's primary campaign tour, to stake his claim to a wondrous and miraculous rescue. Unless Rassman was living in some cave in Bora Bora for the past 30 years, he knew who his rescuer was, knew how to contact him, and was so ungrateful that he didn't express any gratitude for 30 years? This whole incident is fishier than a nuoc mam factory.

[Gimpy]

Kinda like those few hundred guys that "served" with GEE-W in the Alabama Guard that have mysteriously evaporated into thin air, or been so happy to come forward and confirm Georgee-Boys' actual presence on base during the time in "question"???? :cd:

Smells kinda "fishy" alright! :cd: :cd:

[SuperScout]

Changing the subject again? Can you name a few hundred Old Reliables that served with you?

[frisco-kid]

Jaysus, I'll be glad when 3 NOV gets here. I'm about sick of watching this dead horse getting beaten. What's pathetic about the whole thing is that Kerry has to defend his service in VN when President Bush never set foot in the place, and practically the whole cabinet was never in uniform [Cheney=7 defferments. "I had other priorities."] I see that President Bush, once again, complimented Kerry on his service, as well he should. However, he stopped short of asking these swift boat guys to cease and desist. As CIC, I think he should step up to defend a decorated vet, whom, he has stated on several occasions, served admirably and commendably. The President did state that he would like to see these types of ads outlawed and asked Kerry to join him in this. I hope he meant it, and I hope Kerry does.

Personally, I view these ads as nothing more than miniatures of Michael Moore's movies [notice I didn't say documenteries]; taking pieces of statements out of context, doing the same thing with some film, piecing them together to fit your agenda [to smear a man's name or image], and passing it off as the WHOLE truth. Like with Moore's movie, the holes, lies, and contradictions are already surfacing and being exposed.

I don't find Kerry's VN service very relevent. As far as I can tell, he enlisted, volunteered for VN, and was HONORABLY discharged. As far as the medals, if the accusations of how he got them are true, then perhaps the whole system of how the Navy handles it's commendations should be put under scrutiny. I DO know that there are alot of Army officers running around with decorations that they didn't earn.....most notably CIBs. As far as questioning his tactics and judement calls as in one of the posts above, I've seen, and heard of, bad tactics and judgement calls made by infantry officers, who were supposedly trained in ground tactics, that actually got people KILLED.

If the Republicans want to alienate Kerry from VN Vets, they should be focusing more on what he did AFTER the war. This is what pisses me of about the guy. Not the fact that he was against it. That's his right. Nor that he spoke out against it. That's also his right, and who more than the warrior has earned the right to do so. And not that he said that atrocities were commited. They were. But they weren't the norm like he insinuated. He used a large brush and smeared ALL of us with it. He wasn't any better than the stereotypical hippies that were blaming the soldiers instead of the high command officers and politicians. I also think this was done on purpose. He didn't want to step on any toes of people that he might need as friends in the future for the climb up the political ladder that he already had his sites set on. No, if he does get my vote, it won't be because we served in the same war together. As far as I'm concerned, if someone is going tovote for him for the sole reason that he served in Nam, they should be slapped and their voting priveledge given to someone else.

I would like to see him nailed down to some of the CURRENT events of the day. If he doesn't like the way the war is being run, what would he do different? If he's upset about the out-sourcing of American jobs, how does he plan on stemming it? Etc., etc.? What I, and I believe most Americans, would like to see is a for real, no bullshit, serious debate about the CURRENT problems that this country is facing, without the childish finger pointing and name calling.

These are just some of my personal thoughts on some of this stuff. I don't usually get in these conversations [being nice here] on this board. I'm not in the same league with most of you. I've never been able to get so rabidly worked up over politics, to the point of being hurtful and mean, like some of you. Especially over these two guys. Not thrilled with either one of them, and as a moderate Dem often feel unrepresented like MANY moderates from both sides. I do know one thing, though. These guys better get REAL focused on the REAL and DANGEROUS problems facing this country, and forget all this petty, irrelevant bullshit. And so should the voters.

[Gimpy]

You speak with much wisdom and relevance my friend!

I can't find much to disagree with except maybe your thoughts on Kerry's "motives" for his comments in 1971.

Thanks for your input!

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by SuperScout Changing the subject again? Can you name a few hundred Old Reliables that served with you?

No..........I can't................But I sure as HELL can name about 20 or 30. Can Bush????? :cd: :cd: :cd:

[Arrow]

Frisco,

We agree on John Kerry's conduct after the war. The second ad was to that point. Ialso believe that everyone that has been slandered by him in his book Tour of Duty certainly has the right to speak out. You said it yourself a warrior has the right to speak.

Remember thoughJohn Kerry chose to makehis Vietnam service the centerpiece of his bid for the White House. Scamp uses the phrase often of the "fly sh*t being sorted out from the pepper" or something close to that (sorryScamp)(little CRS going on)and that'show I see this discussion.

I can't speak for all voters but this voter is watching as still yet we have no real solutions to ourintelligence problems, our immigration problems, our wide open borders, here we are almost three years away from 9-11 and they are still having hearings and hearings on the hearings. I told Griz the other day after watching hours of those hearings on C-span these people (meaning thebureaucratsand politicians on both sides of the isle)are going to get us all killed.

Of course I'm casting my vote for "The Cowboy" because when he says let's saddle up and ride he doesn't mean to get permission from the UN.

Arrow>>>>>>

"Justice is the one thing you should always find... You got to saddle up your boys...You got to draw a hard line"...

[frisco-kid]

Arrow, love the size of your font, Darlin' .

I didn't read the book you mentioned, and probably never will. If another vet was slandered in it he, by all means, has the right to respond and defend himself. I just hope it's done with facts instead of deterioratinfg to a "he said; he said" type arguement.

I realize Kerry was the one that put his veteran status out there. I'm not quite sure it's the centerpiece, though. It just seems like it is right now with all the coverage it's getting as it's questioned and defended. I kinda look at it as part of his resume he submitted when he applied for the job of President. My point was that I think the Republicans picked the wrong thing to zero in on to attack, given their own military backgrounds [or lack of]. I'm sure this guy has more currently relavent things to bring into question. He's a politician, for Chris'sake.

All this focus on the VN bs is taking away from focusing on the serious things that needs to be addressed. The one's that you mentioned and many others. The days are counting down to 2NOV real quick, and they're screwing around with this irrelevant stuff.

I guess it's just going to boil down to if you're happy with the way the last four years has been managed or not. What's the other guy offering up?

[SuperScout]

"Mr. President, I remember Thristmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.

I have that memory which is seared - seared - in me, that says to me, before we send another generation into harm's way we have a responsibility in the U.S. Senate to go the last step, to make the best effort possible in order to avoid that kind of conflict."

John Kerry, Congressional Record, March 27, 1986

He was lying then, and he's still lying. And he doesn't have the balls to admit he was lying.