"I Pledge Allegiance"

[Packo]

but have seen a bunch of horrible things in this world also. That proves nothing because I have also seen more beauty which outweighs the bad. I will never argue with someone over religion. Too personal, but I will say this, it's a matter of faith. I see no proof that there is air. I can't see it, touch it, taste it, but I have faith it's there. If not, how would we fill up footballs? People will blame their failures or misfortunes in life on a bunch of things. Today, the blame game is even more widespread. If someone uses the term, God's will, I see that as a way of them coping with the situation without blaming. All I can say is that I just can't believe this is all just some Cosmic accident. As you say buddy, there is no proof of God yet lot's of proof there is no God, I would love to see that proof. For every evil you can come up with, I can counter with a good. Lets just say that neither of us can prove God's existance nor non-existance.......I'll just continue to have faith he does, and you can have faith he doesn't. I do have to ask you ol' friend, did you ever pray while in combat? It's really a rhetorical question......and personal, I don't expect an answer.

Take care!

Packo

[Seascamp]

The 9th circuit lee helm just went clang, clang, clang, all back full, sound the collision alarm; whooooot, whooooot.

Fair enough, the 9th circuit appellate court probed the size of the envelope, got their stupid heads served up to them on a platter and stayed their own ruling indefinitely. I can suppose there was mega tons of back channel pressure and those alleged Judges got steam rolled. I?m thinking Scout is right. It is time to unass those idiots from their rarified, arrogant air and get some realistic people plugged into those positions. Anyway, in a time where good news is as rare as lips on a woodpecker, I feel a nice Friday coming on.

Scamp

[ArtySgt]

Well and truly said, thank you.

[Arrow]

Boy that's a fact. And I don't mind sayin so. He's not my crutch He's my Iron Lung. But I understand how other's feel about not needin' him. I am just not one of them. Jimmy Hendrix asked the question "are you experienced?" Those that had been where he had been knew what he was talkin' about. Same/same with faith you have to go there before you know...

I Believe In You
Bob Dylan

They ask me how I feel
And if my love is real
And how I know I'll make it through.
And they, they look at me and frown,
They'd like to drive me from this town,
They don't want me around
'Cause I believe in you.

They show me to the door,
They say don't come back no more
'Cause I don't be like they'd like me to,
And I walk out on my own
A thousand miles from home
But I don't feel alone
'Cause I believe in you.

I believe in you even through the tears and the laughter,
I believe in you even though we be apart.
I believe in you even on the morning after.
Oh, when the dawn is nearing
Oh, when the night is disappearing
Oh, this feeling is still here in my heart.

Don't let me drift too far,
Keep me where you are
Where I will always be renewed.
And that which you've given me today
Is worth more than I could pay
And no matter what they say
I believe in you.

I believe in you when winter turn to summer,
I believe in you when white turn to black,
I believe in you even though I be outnumbered.
Oh, though the earth may shake me
Oh, though my friends forsake me
Oh, even that couldn't make me go back.

Don't let me change my heart,
Keep me set apart
From all the plans they do pursue.
And I, I don't mind the pain
Don't mind the driving rain
I know I will sustain
'Cause I believe in you.

[39mto39g]

No where in my post does it say I do not belive in God. Yes, Yes, and Yes I prayed to God in VN, several times and also thanked him once for gun ships.
Im saying religion should be in the heart and in church and not in government.
Why would a God let a little baby die? just to have the parents have nightmairs for the rest of there lives. Abortion? Go visit the childens burn center in your area, what perpose is this.
Its hard talking negitivly about a subject that 90% of Americans belive in, thats why most of the politions are talking bad about the court ruleing, But just because 90% belive in something does not make it true, The world is not flat. But, if you said that 500 years ago you would have been put in jail.
Take care.
Ron

[SuperScout]

If you believe that God "lets a baby" die, I would contend that your God is too small. My God does not play little games like "Deux ex machina," or god out of the machine as was portrayed in Greek plays. And maybe the purpose of being exposed to suffering is to make us more compassionate, more careful so as to prevent some suffering, or to get us out of our own conceits and think of someone else for a change. There are certain laws of nature (call them God-created laws for a better definition), that God does not violate; for example, if a person as saintly as Mother Teresa fell out of an airplane at 2500 feet, the law of gravity, which was created by God, would still prevail, and the saintly soul would perish. With all due respect and honor to my paratrooper brothers, I think they will support my contention, and remember their checklists/buddy checks and pat their reserves, knowing full well that gravity exists, even for paratroopers. I thank God I'm a Dirty Ol' Leg!!

[39mto39g]

no comment?
Ron

[Keith_Hixson]

I really appreciate your honesty!
I think a simplistic look at life and how God fits in can be dangerous. The very word faith implies trust. But, chocking it all up to God's will is wrong. However, I don't want to get into a lecture on Theology 101 but we all know bad things happen to the innocent and good people. Anybody with any intellect won't try to explain it all because there is no good explanation. I have two stories that at least help me make sense of the bad things that happen to all of us at one time or another. They are stories behind two Hymns of the Church written by two pastors. One by a minister that was sending his wife and children to Europe for a vacation and the ship his family was on was sunk in an act of war. His wife and children died. He wrote the Hymn "it is well with my soul." The other was written by a gentleman I met briefly several years ago. He told how his wife had been killed in an auto accident. The words to his hymn are, "we'll talk it over in the sweet bye and bye, we'll talk it over my Lord and I, I'll ask the reasons and He'll tell me why, we'll talk it over my Lord and I." I served as a civilian medic for seven and half years and firefighter. I also was a sheriff's department chaplain. I've seen some the worst things that society has to offer. I don't believe my God desires that harm should come to anyone. But as a realist I know that some really bad things happen to the innocent and good people. I know that there is evil in this world and sometimes bad things happen. Why God allows it to happen is a long theological discussion. But I do know one thing it gives me tremendous comfort to trust God. My faith becomes a tremendous support to me when life caves. When I talk it over with God I always get this assurance that somehow and someway he is still in control and He gives me the peace and comfort to face each day. "It is well with my soul."
Is my faith a crutch? I say yes, but we all have our crutches to see us through. I always ask, "what is your crutch?" Is it drugs, alcohol, recreation, job, a hedonist lifestyle, what do you do to protect yourself from the pain of living when life caves in?" My faith gives me peace and comfort in the bad times and lots of joy in the good times.

Keith

[39mto39g]

Im jellous and envious of your faith in something that I can not see.
What I do for fun and excitment--- I go to work.
Seeeeeeeee Ya
Ron

[DMZ-LT]

What Ron said. I envy people that give it over to God