Target management states that "veterans do not meet our area of giving"

[Jerry D]

Vietnam Veterans Association - By Dick Forrey was about Target being french owned and not supporting veterans But, it turned out to be a Hoax sorry for taking anyones time

[billr]

This is another Internet Urban Legend. Check it out at:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/target.asp

[MORTARDUDE]

This maybe a legend, but the clout ( political, economic, and otherwise ), will only shrink dramatically in the years to come. In your local obituaries start tracking the names of those listed as veterans and look at the ages. WW2, Korean, and Vietnam Era veterans are dying in large numbers. In 10 years the veterans of this country will be drowned out by other "entitlement" groups..some probably not even created yet by big government. I have discussions almost everyday with folks who "think" they understand what veterans are, what we went through, who "think" they understand PTSD and many other loads of bull-shit. I am not being pessimistic....just realistic. Like I said check the obituaries and then look up the statistics on living veterans and where they live...Not a pretty picture.

Larry

[Gimpy]

For exposing this for what it is...............just another SCAM!

Some folks will believe anything they see around here.

[Jerry D]

"Thanks Bill" for the 411 on the Target story

[MORTARDUDE]

Zell Miller is like all the rest of those pompous jerks. Time to bail out so he spills the beans...why did it take this long ? I cannot stand to look or hear anything Byrd, Kennedy, Boxer, Finestein, Clinton, or most of the rest of them say about anything....They are all as a lot ( both parties included ) miserable excuses for "public servants" !!!!

Larry

[Gimpy]

Hey Jerry,
You're barking up the WRONG tree trying to blame the "liberals" for this mess. Take a look at what Cheney said during the campaign of 2000 and then look at HIS record as secretary of defense? it was He and George the first that reduced the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and size of the military and CAUSED the shortages that Clinton & Gore got blamed for!

#########################################

Republican vice-presidential candidate Dick Cheney is continuing to attack the Clinton administration for ?running down the military? and insists Al Gore won?t reverse the trend if he becomes commander in chief.

The former defense secretary today criticized the Clinton-Gore White House in harsh terms for presiding over an ?overused and under-resourced? military.

Cheney described the Democrats? record on defense as ?Eight years of neglect and misplaced priorities. Eight years of multiplying missions and unclear goals.?
?Eight years is a long time,? he added. ?And eight years is long enough.?

Responding to the vice president?s assertion that Bush is ?trying to run down the military? and exaggerating readiness problems for political advantage. Cheney told the Southern Center for International Studies in Atlanta, ?He has made a poor choice of words.?

?When you triple our commitments around the world, while at the same time taking the Army from 14 divisions down to 10,? he continued, ?that, Mr. Gore, is ?running down the military.??

(note here*--It was actually Cheney's reduction in military personnel that caused this shortage of Divisions).

He and Texas Gov. George W. Bush have been escalating their campaign trail rhetoric over what they claim are serious deficiencies in military preparedness, arguing that the armed forces are plagued by equipment shortages and low morale. Cheney made clear, however, that their criticisms are not aimed at military personnel.

?To point out that our military has been overextended, taken for granted and neglected ? that is no criticism of the military,? Cheney also said. ?That is a criticism of a president and a vice president and the record they have built together.?

###
But, let's examine the REAL facts about Cheneys own record of "running down the military" under George the First from 1989 thru 1993!

Talk about "neglect"!......................Look what he and the republicans did then and are doing NOW!

In subsequent years under Cheney the budgets proposed and the final outcomes followed patterns similar to the FY 1990 budget experience. Early in 1991 the secretary unveiled a plan to reduce military strength by the mid-1990s to 1.6 million, compared to 2.2 million when he entered office. In his budget proposal for FY 1993, his last one, Cheney asked for termination of the B-2 program at 20 aircraft, cancellation of the Midgetman, and limitations on advanced cruise missile purchases to those already authorized. When introducing this budget, Cheney complained that Congress had directed Defense to buy weapons it did not want, including the V-22, M-1 tanks, and F-14 and F-16 aircraft, and required it to maintain some unneeded reserve forces. His plan outlined about $50 billion less in budget authority over the next 5 years than the Bush administration had proposed in 1991.

Over Cheney's four years as secretary of defense, encompassing budgets for fiscal years 1990-93, DoD's total obligational authority in current dollars declined from $291.3 billion to $269.9 billion. Except for FY 1991, when the TOA budget increased by 1.7 percent, the Cheney budgets showed negative real growth: -2.9 percent in 1990, -9.8 percent in 1992, and -8.1 percent in 1993. During this same period total military personnel declined by 19.4 percent, from 2.202 million in FY 1989 to 1.776 million in FY 1993. The Army took the largest cut, from 770,000 to 572,000-25.8 percent of its strength. The Air Force declined by 22.3 percent, the Navy by 14 percent, and the Marines by 9.7 percent.

################################################## ################
There you have it! Cheney and Daddy Bush are the REAL reason the military was in such foul shape during that time! NOT, Clinton and Gore!
Now, let's examine what has happened since Gee-FREAKIN-DUBYA has been in office!
************************************************** ********************

Bush Cuts Funds for Veterans' Health Care
Bush VA Spending Fails To Grow With Health Care Costs

Despite Bush's claims, "the annual percentage increase it requested for veterans' health care is 5.4 percent -- hardly a windfall considering that the consumer price index for medical care was 13 percent during fiscal year 2002. VA officials have testified that it would take a 13 to 14 percent hike in the VA's health care budget just to maintain the status quo." [Rep. Lane Evans (D-IL) Op-Ed, The Hill, 9/17/03]

Veterans Forced To Wait Months For Initial Visits to VA Doctors
At least 230,000 veterans are being forced to wait over six months for their initial visit to a doctor at the VA medical facilities. In some parts of the country veterans are waiting nearly two years for those visits. Bush's VA Secretary Anthony Principi has acknowledged the danger in these delays, stating "I'm concerned [the delays are] causing quality to be degraded."

The "Independent Budget," an analysis of the VA budget provided by veterans groups, has said "The Department of Veterans Affairs health care system is in critical condition." Meanwhile, the Bush administration opposed a Senate addition to the Iraq supplemental bill that would have added $1.3 billion to veterans' health care. [Air Force Magazine, 10/02; http://www.pva.org/independentbudget..._04excsum.pdf; OMB Director Joshua Bolton to Rep. David Obey (D-WI), 10/21/03]

Bush Administration Is Closing Seven Veterans Hospitals
In early August 2003, the Bush administration announced it was closing hospitals in its efforts to "restructure" the Department of Veterans Affairs. The administration is closing hospitals in:
Canandaigua, N.Y.
Pittsburgh
Lexington, Ky.
Brecksville, Ohio
Gulfport, Miss.
Livermore, Calif.
Waco, Tex.
Joy Ilem, assistant national legislative director for Disabled American Veterans, "questioned the need for closures and other cutbacks. 'Everyone is aware of the difficulty VA has meeting demand,' Ilem said. 'When we have hundreds of thousands of veterans on waiting lists (for medical appointments), we don't want to see facilities closed due to fiscal problems.'" There are currently 163 VA hospitals in the US. [Associated Press, 8/4/03, 10/28/03; Department of Veterans Affairs]

In mid-August, as Bush vacationed in Texas, a thousand veterans and supporters rallied in Waco, Texas to protest the closing of that VA hospital. The protestors met at the Waco School District football stadium parking lot "for a rally before driving the 22 miles to Crawford," where Bush was vacationing. "Veterans of Foreign Wars State Commander Ron Hornsby told the stadium crowd that the VA commissioner looking at closing hospitals could harm veterans all across the country, not just in Waco. 'We can never repay the veterans -- we hear those words a lot,' Hornsby said. 'At times like this, those words become very hollow, very meaningless.'" More than 1,500 vets joined a similar October rally to protest a VA closing in New York. [San Antonio Express-News, 8/17/03; Associated Press, 10/20/03, 10/28/03]

Bush Proposed Doubling Costs Of Prescription Drugs For Veterans
This year Bush proposed increasing prescription drugs costs for veterans. The Bush plan would have included a new $250 enrollment fee and a co pay increase from $7 to $15 for veterans earning over $24,000. On July 21, the House Appropriations Committee agreed to a Democratic amendment to reject the Bush fee increases and recoup the $264 million in costs by reducing administrative funding for the Department of Veterans Affairs. [Reuters, 7/14/03; Washington Post, 7/22/03]

Bush Decided To Cut Benefits For Middle-Income Veterans
On January 16, 2003, the Bush Administration announced it would cut access to health care benefits for 160,000 middle-income veterans due to budget constraints. John Pettyjohn, an Oklahoma veteran who served in Vietnam, said of the cuts, "On one hand, we're sending our sons and daughters out to war and possibly to die, yet on the other hand we're punishing a certain class of veterans who've made money in their lives. The government made a promise to us. What they're doing now is wrong." [Associated Press, 1/16/03; The Daily Oklahoman, 1/18/03]

################################################## ###################

Service Members and Their Families Face Devastating Cuts
Pentagon Planned To Cut Pay Of Troops Serving In Iraq And Afghanistan

On April 2, 2003, the U.S. Senate unanimously voted to increase pay for soldiers in "imminent danger" areas by 50 percent. Pay for families of active-duty troops was increased 150 percent. The increase was the first to imminent-danger pay since the first Gulf War, and the first to families since 1997. The increases were temporary, and set to expire at the end of the current fiscal year on September 30. Bush's Defense Department effectively decided "to cut the pay of its 148,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, who are already contending with guerrilla-style attacks, homesickness and 120-degree-plus heat" by opposing renewal of the pay raises.
After criticism from Democrats, the Pentagon announced that current salaries for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan would not be cut, but such efforts may come at the expense of troops serving elsewhere. [Knight-Ridder, 4/5/03; Los Angeles Times, 4/3/03; CQ, 4/16/03; San Francisco Chronicle, 8/14/03; Army Times, 8/13/03; 8/20/03]

Army Times Called The Pay Cuts "Maddening"
The Army Times, an independent paper distributed to Army personnel, criticized Bush, saying "The bottom line: If the Bush administration felt in April that conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan warranted increases in danger pay and family separation allowances, it cannot plausibly argue that the higher rates are not still warranted today." The Times said the Bush administration "undermined" support for the troops, and called the pay cuts "maddening." The Atlanta Journal-Constitution called the Pentagon's plan "heartless" and "simply unacceptable." [Army Times, 8/18/03; San Francisco Chronicle, 8/14/03; Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 8/15/03]

Bush Budget Cut Millions From Education Funds For Military Children

Bush's 2004 budget cut $200 million from Impact Aid, a program that helps military children receive a quality education. The military portion of Impact Aid would fall in Bush's budget from $635 to $435 million. Bush tried to cut $3 million from Impact Aid in 2003 as well. [House Appropriations Committee, Minority Staff, 6/17/03, 6/16/03; Washington Post, 6/17/03; Omaha World Herald, 2/5/02; State News Service, 2/4/02]

Bush's Tax Cut For The Wealthy Excluded Military Families
Bush's 2004 tax cut failed to extend a child tax credit to 200,000 low-income military families. Soldiers whose "with taxable incomes below $26,625 are ineligible for the increase in the maximum child tax credit from $600 to $1,000 that was part of a tax bill signed into law in May." Among those whose families are left out of the Bush tax cut are soldiers serving in combat zones. [Washington Post, 6/17/03; Army Times, 8/11/03]

Some Children Of Soldiers In Iraq Rely On Charity

The charity group "Feed the Children" organized food drives for children whose parents were fighting in Iraq. Between December 2002 and April 2003, the group "delivered 600,000 pounds of food and other necessities to more than 6,200 military families at 12 bases." In April, people "lined up for a half-hour near Fort Bragg to get free boxes of supplies and food, from cereal and spaghetti sauce to baby food and potato chips.
Among the needy were some of the 1,200 families living near the Army post and Pope Air Force Base whose breadwinners are off fighting in Iraq." Even in peacetime, many militaries families rely on such efforts, and qualify for food stamps. "Feed the Children is best known for providing food and medical assistance in developing countries. It began aiding families of deployed military during the first Gulf War." [Tulsa World, 4/7/03; Associated Press, 4/9/03]

Pentagon Objected To Extending Full Benefits To Part Time Reservists

A bipartisan Senate push to extend benefits to part time reservists has met stiff resistance by the Bush Administration. In July 2003, "Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld sent a letter to House and Senate leaders stating the Bush Administration's opposition to" legislation that would extend full benefits to part-time military reservists.
A Pentagon memo dated July 26, 2003 revealed that the Bush Administration would veto any Defense appropriation request that included the benefits. The legislation is strongly supported by the National Guard Association, the Adjutants General Association, and Enlisted Association of the National Guard. [Office of Senator Tom Daschle, 7/14/03; Army Times, 8/13/03; http://www.ngaus.org/newsroom/Sec%20523%20Letter.pdf]

################################################## ###################################
Bush Mistreats Iraq Troops

Bush Banned Public Images Of Dead Troops Returning Home
The Washington Post reported that "In March, on the eve of the Iraq war, a directive arrived from the Pentagon at U.S. military bases. 'There will be no arrival ceremonies for, or media coverage of, deceased military personnel returning to or departing from Ramstein [Germany] airbase or Dover [Del.] base, to include interim stops,' the Defense Department said, referring to the major ports for the returning remains....The Pentagon has previously acknowledged the effect on public opinion of the grim tableau of caskets being carried from transport planes to hangars or hearses. In 1999, the then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Army Gen. Henry H. Shelton, said a decision to use military force is based in part on whether it will pass 'the Dover test,' as the public reacts to fatalities." [Washington Post, 10/21/03; NPR, 10/21/03]

Bush Has Yet To Attend Soldiers' Funerals

The Washington Post noted that a "White House spokesman said Bush has not attended any memorials or funerals for soldiers killed in action during his presidency as his predecessors had done, although he has met with families of fallen soldiers and has marked the loss of soldiers in Memorial Day and Sept. 11, 2001, remembrances." [Washington Post, 10/21/03]

Army Investigating Complaints Of Poor Treatment For Iraq Veterans

UPI learned that "hundreds of sick and wounded U.S. soldiers including many who served in the Iraq war are languishing in hot cement barracks here while they wait -- sometimes for months -- to see doctors. The National Guard and Army Reserve soldiers' living conditions are so substandard, and the medical care so poor, that many of them believe the Army is trying push them out with reduced benefits for their ailments.

One document shown to UPI states that no more doctor appointments are available from Oct. 14 through Nov. 11 -- Veterans Day.... One month after President Bush greeted soldiers at Fort Stewart...as heroes on their return from Iraq, approximately 600 sick or injured members of the Army Reserves and National Guard are warehoused in rows of spare, steamy and dark cement barracks in a sandy field, waiting for doctors to treat their wounds or illnesses."

After the initial UPI reports surfaced, the Army announced it was rushing doctors and funds to Fort Stewart to alleviate the situation. [United Press International, 10/17/03; 10/20/03]

################################################## ###################

And here's some MORE!

This President is the only President to have never attended the funeral of a fallen soldier, nor personally met with the family to provide comfort and encouragement.

This President is the first to prohibit the Press Corps from Dover Air Force Base, where those who have given their lives for his cause make their return to American soil, thus depriving the populace from the privilege of honoring the sacrifice of these brave young men and women.

This President is the first to present a budget to Congress that provides less money to the Veterans' Administration than the previous year.

This President is the only President to have been Absent Without Leave (AWOL) from his own military service -- a deserter in a time of war.

This President is the only American President to have appeared publicly -- in official capacity -- wearing a military uniform, mocking those who actually serve.

This President is the first President to roll back benefits to active duty military personnel and veterans alike.

This President is the only one to have sent American troops off to war, then cut their hazardous duty pay.

This President has ordered that the Veterans' Administration is not to inform veterans of the benefits legally due them.

This President has rescinded military medical benefits for all retired military personnel, breaking a promise made to people who have decided to spend their lives in service since before the Korean War.

This President has pressed into active duty more National Guard troops than at any time since World War II, leaving states' militias ill-prepared to deal with normal duties, such as natural disaster response.

This President has instituted "processing fees" of $250 for veterans trying to claim their legally-due benefits, and increased co-pay at VA Medical Centers.

This President has sent our young loved ones off to war under false pretenses.

In addition to these atrocious, cynical slaps at the military and veterans, he has gone after their families. Money has been cut for military housing, military dependant medical benefits, and hardship pay, all of which help military families to deal with the harsh realities of day to day life.

For the first time in American history, an unknown person in the current administration has committed treason. By publicly revealing the name of an operative of the Central Intelligence Agency, the most treasonous act committed during the current war, someone in the White House has killed dozens, if not scores, of American intelligence agents abroad. Yet this President does not seem concerned with finding the traitor. In fact, he doesn't even call him that. The official word calls this despicable act of treason "a leak," as though it were some simple matter of a staffer revealing to Geraldo Rivera that the President naps in the Oval Office.


Yep------------"daddy" Bush was a disgrace alright-------BUT, "shrub" is the WORST of them ALL! No contest!!!
************************************************** **************
So you see Jerry, when the F-A-C-T-S are presented truthfully, your "arguement" is less than valid! Republicans, the so-called "compassinate conservatives" that the traitor Zell Miller supports and continues to "praise" are the REAL PROBLEMS for the military and military veterans............it's a crying SHAME that you and others that feel like you do can't see the truth if it bit you on the A$$!


Have a nice day!

[Jerry D]

till we meet in the Afterlife sorry to take up your time :cd:

[Dragon Lady]

I have to agree with Gimpy! I was stuck in that first "roll back". I was faced with an either/or type situation. I had to either reinlist for 4 more years or separate from service 8 months shy of my 4 years active duty. My husband at the time was finishing college full time and awaiting a call to active duty for pilot training and we had a new baby girl at home. All I needed to do was finish my last 8 months. But they wouldnt let me...NOR was I given a severance. The year following my honorable discharge from active military service in the US Air Force, they started paying severance pay to those forced out early. So now I find that when I am applying for a government job that I cannot claim Vet Preference. My tour fell between Viet Nam and the Gulf Wars. I do NOT begrudge anyone who does fall into that category, but I do think that I should be given more preference than a dependent! They are given 10 points while a Vet only gets 5 points! How is that possible?
Cheney is NOT my favorite Defense Sec. Casper Weinberger gets that vote.
Sorry guys, feeling little glum tonight.

[Gimpy]

Jerry! You're a "lost cause" my friend. George Wallace huh? Now THERE"S a REAL "eye opener" for ya! I'm starting to "understand" your preference for the radical, right-wing segment of the "NEW" republicans now! How nice it must be to align yourself with such bigots, and prejudiced characters and expect THEM to actually see the REAL facts when they are so blinded by their own hate and misguided notions that they are unable to even see their OWN undeniable faults!

Your attempt to accuse the "senate" that had one year of demoicratic majority (actually it really didn't, Jim Jeffords was and Independent that sometimes voted WITH the republicans as well) of "failing" to pass con-current receipt shows your ignorance and total failure of comprehension of the Legislative branch of our Government! You REALLY need to "educate" yourself regarding HOW the "system" REALLY works. It HAS BEEN and CONTINUES to be the the Republican majority in the House of Representatives under the leadership of Republicans Newt Gingrich (anothe freakin TRAITOR from Georgia like Zell Miller!), Dennis Hasltert, and Tom Delay that have thwarted and undermined every single effort by the Democrats in the Senate & House to try and get this measure passed! I have posted roll call vote after roll call vote, after roll call vote in the SENATE & HOUSE that SHOWS without a PHUCKIN DOUBT where these a$$holes have voted against con-current receipt. Not ONLY that, but when the Senate & house "versions' made it into "conference committee" to have these bills reconciled (or negotiated to bring each version together for final passage into law), it was the REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP in the HOUSE that BLOCKED the final measure from being passed!

It has been the DEMOCRATS who have been attempting to get this through the Congress for more than a decade now.........with ALL the opposition coming from the Republicans in Congress and NOW the President himself! The VOTES in the documented roll call votes in Congress PROVES this..............it's there in the DOCUMENTED CONGRESSIONAL RECORD for ALL to see!

Just as is this Presidents DEPLORABLE & OUTRAGEOUS record of injustices towards our miiitary & military veterans. Are you guys BLIND or something.........or just unwilling to ADMIT you're as full of CRAP as GEE-DUBYA!

You want "MORE "proof"........................

This President is the only President to have never attended the funeral of a fallen soldier, nor personally met with the family to provide comfort and encouragement.

This President is the first to prohibit the Press Corps from Dover Air Force Base, where those who have given their lives for his cause make their return to American soil, thus depriving the populace from the privilege of honoring the sacrifice of these brave young men and women.

This President is the first to present a budget to Congress that provides less money to the Veterans' Administration than the previous year.

This President is the only President to have been Absent Without Leave (AWOL) from his own military service -- a deserter in a time of war.

This President is the only American President to have appeared publicly -- in official capacity -- wearing a military uniform, mocking those who actually serve.

This President is the first President to roll back benefits to active duty military personnel and veterans alike.

This President is the only one to have sent American troops off to war, then cut their hazardous duty pay.

This President has ordered that the Veterans' Administration is not to inform veterans of the benefits legally due them.

This President has rescinded military medical benefits for all retired military personnel, breaking a promise made to people who have decided to spend their lives in service since before the Korean War.

This President has pressed into active duty more National Guard troops than at any time since World War II, leaving states' militias ill-prepared to deal with normal duties, such as natural disaster response.

This President has instituted "processing fees" of $250 for veterans trying to claim their legally-due benefits, and increased co-pay at VA Medical Centers.

This President has sent our young loved ones off to war under false pretenses.

In addition to these atrocious, cynical slaps at the military and veterans, he has gone after their families. Money has been cut for military housing, military dependant medical benefits, and hardship pay, all of which help military families to deal with the harsh realities of day to day life.

But it doesn't stop there. With self-righteous mockery, this President signed into law the USA PATRIOT Act, diluting the Bill of Rights and compromising the very Constitution that he and every U. S. troop is sworn to uphold and defend. Ostensibly, this was to strengthen the investigative powers of our law enforcement agencies and prevent terrorism. If that is the case, the USA PATRIOT Act should be the perfect tool to find the traitor in the White House.

For the first time in American history, an unknown person in the current administration has committed treason. By publicly revealing the name of an operative of the Central Intelligence Agency, the most treasonous act committed during the current war, someone in the White House has killed dozens, if not scores, of American intelligence agents abroad. Yet this President does not seem concerned with finding the traitor. In fact, he doesn't even call him that. The official word calls this despicable act of treason "a leak," as though it were some simple matter of a staffer revealing to Geraldo Rivera that the President naps in the Oval Office.

You guys really need to get a "grip" on reality and wake up and SEE who's hurting the Veterans of this country..........cause it SURE AS HELL AIN'T THE DEMOCRATS! The documented RECORD of Congress and this President P-R-O-V-E-S that!!

:cd: :cd: