Just an observation...

[MORTARDUDE]

Originally Posted by Arrow

David has shown nothing but respect for us as a people and only ask respect in return. The man has served some of us now for going on ten years and this is how we reward him? All this could have been avoided with compliance to a simple request to back off the personal insults. It is possible to question a persons veracity while remembering you are in a pubic venue with others. It is quite sad for me to see men that have enjoyed the opportunity to meet and come together day after day and year after year on this site attack and denigrate in a public venue on another site a younger brother, a Gulf War Veteran, the son of a Vietnam Veteran, and grandson of a World War II Veteran, that has done nothing but keep them all connected lo these many years.

Sis :

What you say is true. But let's get to what is really wrong. Ron was banned twice from this site. The last was for physically threatening some of those here. He should never have been let back to post here. Period. There is no doubt in my mind that he was making up his war stories to cause exactly what happened. That is my perception of what transpired.

Larry

[MORTARDUDE]

Originally Posted by 03Fox2/1

SuperScout,
No apologies are necessary from you to me for the behavior of any member other than yourself. Adult age does not necessarily dictate adult behavior and I know from long experience that many so-called adults act out their fantasies on the internet, a place that unless it is well regulated and moderated and kept within the agreed perimeters of acceptable conduct, can easily get ugly because some are allowed to run amok. There is now the Stolen Valor Act to punish those low-life wannabes that seem to constantly raise their phony heads and crave attention for something that they did not do or did not deserve. The only way to keep the peace on sites such as this one that have gotten to a point of such contentious debate is for cooler heads to prevail. I'm not taking sides with individual members or which remark or accusation or retort was answered by another, equal in anger. The validity of those wronged may or may not be in contention. But what I see as the real issue... is that the integrity and moral character of this wonderful and rare site, is being blemished in a way that seems to me is compromising the stated goals of this highly regarded site. The professionalism should not only be displayed by the historical information provided but also by the conduct of the members. Senior members have a responsibility to themselves, the site and the public, to conduct themselves in an exemplary manner. None of this is meant as the solution for all problems, I'm only trying to address the current one that is slowly spreading to other members, and in my opinion, destroying the heart of this site. Again, only my opinion and there are many of you who probably think I'm out of place because I haven't contributed much to this site. I believe there are over 11,000 members listed for this site and the vast majority don't post. However there is no way to know how many read and absorb the knowledge that this wonderful site provides. Like me, there may be many thousands of observers of this recent calamity of personal attacks on each other that are wondering why either the participants or the administrator doesn't put an end to it. That's all I've got to say. It will run it's course if allowed to and many good people will either leave this site or remain silent, forever scared off by the uncontrolled behavior of a few that seem more concerned with their own persona than the good of the whole.
Respectfully submitted by 03Fox2/1. Grunt Marine forever. Vietnam 11/68-12/69

Of course you are not out of place. I value your opinion, as I am sure others do. The forum on this site has been on a down hill slide for a long time. It seems that we could not attract new members that would stay. Some of it probably stems from the heated political arguments over the past year and a half, that in my opinion, got way out of hand, and may have resulted in some of the insults referred to in other posts. I am sure there are other reasons.

There has always been a core group, most of which came from the old History Channel site, of which our posts there have been deleted, and where some of the most passionate posts and threads about our Vietnam service were made, that made this site's forum the great place it is.

It is one thing to read something someone has written about their service. It is another thing entirely to be able to talk to someone online, in realtime, about their war experiences. It is, simply stated, what saved my life in 2002 when I first went to the Vet Center for help. I was able to find friends here who encouraged me to get the help I needed from the VA, where I was very reluctant to go. For that, I am eternally grateful to David, and my friends here.

Larry

[03Fox2/1]

reconeil,
I did read what was permitted and not permitted at the beginning of the political forum. These rules of engagement had no weight because they were not enforced. No matter what the reason, good intentional or not, the fact that the rules were ignored with impunity gave the violators a sense of worth that was not merited by their actions. The special status of your long term relationship with each other has been abused. If you ignore such inappropriate behavior, you condone it, and sooner or later the atmosphere changes from one of mutual respect, with differences of opinion, to one of slander and libel and disrespect on a scale that no man or woman can be expected to tolerate. Just as many of you, and myself included, have had very bad experiences on other sites, such as TheHistoryChannel, sites that had unacceptable moderators, sites that made us leave because they had little interest in real VietNam veterans. Finally we arrive at the Patriot Files, a breath of fresh air in my opinion. I am not throwing out accusations or in any way trying to cast disparaging remarks towards any one individual on this forum. I am speaking in generalities on purpose about a very special site that is far more important to each of us then the individual freedom each of us possesses to screw it up. I don't really know who said what or did what that brought about this moment in Patriot Files history. I just know that everyone needs to take a step backwards and stop casting blame on others. Instead, everyone needs to recognize that for the good of this site and what it provides to both the well versed members that contribute heavily and the vast majority of silent members, no less important, all of us need to do whatever is necessary to return this site to one of open discussion and difference of opinion, with perimeters of civility and mutual respect. Enforcement should be the last resort if the members collectively adhere to the rules of engagement but enforcement of rules, up to and including banning, should be objective and swift, based on the conduct of the individual member, not who your friends are or how much you contribute. I for one, recently left the HistoryChannel site because of the continued and unwarranted attacks on the honor of my fellow Marines and the disrespect shown to one of my fallen officers, for no reason except the uniform he wore. Imagine my surprise and disgust when I come to this site and realize that this same man is a senior member of this site and that he has been banned many times for the same kind of conduct and each time allowed to return with impunity. This doesn't exactly inspire one to believe that this site is serious about enforcing the rules about acceptable behavior. Our Administrator is to be complimented on what he has achieved and I wish him much continued success. I believe he will do the right thing, not for himself, not for you or for me. He will do the right thing because this site has become something greater than any one of us and because this site is important to those such as myself and most of you gentlemen from my generation. No less a casualty of VietNam then those names chiseled on that black Wall.
Semper Fi .... to all VietNam vets of all branches of service.... but especially to my fellow grunts, the unknown heroes of that terrible war of attrition.

[03Fox2/1]

mortardude,
I too value this site for much more then the political forums and historical references.
I once went for help at the VA, an outreach program.
It didn't work out for me.
I have went it alone for too long and right or wrong, such is my fate.
Perhaps, like family members sometimes do, there are those on this site that have become too familiar or too relaxed with other members. Family members usually close ranks when threatened from outside the family but the worst fights are usually between family members and we all know that feuds can last forever. I'm a firm believer that each of us is our own best friend and our own worst enemy. Sometimes it is hard to know which one to listen to. The distinction can become clouded with emotion.
Thank you for your service to our country and thank you for addressing me so kindly.
Semper Fi

[MORTARDUDE]

Originally Posted by 03Fox2/1

mortardude,
I too value this site for much more then the political forums and historical references.
I once went for help at the VA, an outreach program.
It didn't work out for me.
I have went it alone for too long and right or wrong, such is my fate.
Perhaps, like family members sometimes do, there are those on this site that have become too familiar or too relaxed with other members. Family members usually close ranks when threatened from outside the family but the worst fights are usually between family members and we all know that feuds can last forever. I'm a firm believer that each of us is our own best friend and our own worst enemy. Sometimes it is hard to know which one to listen to. The distinction can become clouded with emotion.
Thank you for your service to our country and thank you for addressing me so kindly.
Semper Fi

"Welcome Home" Brother !!!!

Larry