Lies Conservatives tell

[phuloi]

and I would fight to my dieing breath to defend that right..

[xgrunt]

Hoffman. One of the crazy things he did was get into the balcony over the stock market floor and toss several hundred dollar bills out onto the floor. The floor traders went crazy chasing after the falling money. They're still going crazy chasing after the money only now it means someone's life savings[401K] is being trashed. Maybe we need a few more Abbie Hoffmans and less Ken Lays?

[Packo]

Your about as much an extreme left wing liberal as I am an extreme right wing conservative. I have always known that, I just enjoy the banter with you. I do agree though, as a former Democrat, (Dixiecrat), like Sam Nunn et al, that the Democrat Party has been high jacked by the PC lunitic fringe. It is why I left it and people like Sam Nunn got clean out. The Republican party was also on the verge of being taken over by the extremist. Guess that's why I'm looking at the Libertarian Party.

Now on this election stuff. If a Presidential candidate cannot carry his home state.......he has no cause to be President. Gore lost the election when the people that knew him best voted for the other guy. Case closed. His own people didn't want him. Had he taken his own state, Florida would not have mattered.

On the S&L.....hell buddy, I luv ya, but you don't honestly think I'm gonna sit and read all that, do ya? I sit and read the stories about you and Dan.....plus I'm sure if I had the energy, and really cared, I could research and find another point of view. I truly believe that all in Washington are the cause of our problems, not one side. I say throw them all out and lets start again. If you really want to see the height of hypocracy, go to the Drudge report and see what it is Tom Dascal's wife does for a living. She's only just about the most highest paid lobbyist in Washington, yet they won't disclose how much they make. Hmmmmmm.

Nostalgia: Didn't like it then, don't like it now!

ABU!
AIRBORNE!

Packo

[exlrrp]

Nostagia sure aint like it used to be

(I'm going to try to dialogue here--with some people it can happen)
""All conservatives are liars, all liberals truthful"
Pack: i tell you as a friend--this is not what I believe at all. I think ALL politicians are corupt to some extent, just by the process if nothing else. I bet I can tell you more about the Dems bullsht and pecadilloes than you can--I read more of it. i doubt if there's a more cynical person here than me about ALL govts and parties. they all take payoffs and studying the S&L Scandal only brings that out.
Example: the S&L 5: 3D, 2R. (Glenn, de Concini, Cranston, Riegel, McCain) 5 senators sat down at a meeting and busted Ed Gray, the head regulator's, balls to get an amndment passed to his regulation restricting S&L business. reagan over ruled Gray, the amendment pased. the amendment allowed S&Ls to take "brokered deposits" whcih CONTRIBUTED to the disaster (there were other factors)
Both parties took big S&L money, I mean BIG money and exeryed influence.
But I have to say i was the Garn/St germain (bipartisan) dereg bill that opened the door for the abuses and looting by unscrupulous people that ran the S&Ls into the ground and wound up costing the taxpayer 100s of billions of $$$. Look this up yourself, Please!!. Welfare mothers and union members don't do this, Paco, no, only rich people. And Mafia members. You should read up on this , it will open your eyes to the damage deregulation written by industry people does. I have read 2 books on it since this conversation started and I learned a lot. This deregulation by the industry (as rhapsodised abiout by republicans is wrong!! and costs us taxpayers money!!)the phony "energy crisis" in CA last year was EXACTLY the same thing. We should be on the same side here, theyr f-----g us taxpayers!!

Well, thats a whole different story than whats posted above but whats posted above was said with such certainty, such a fervent belief, that was so wrong, that slandered my side so much , well, what could a lrrp liberal do but SET SELECTOR SWITCH TO FULL AUTO? I must be a conservatives worse nightmare-- a radical liberal who's used silenced weapons and explosives. A lot!
[ And speaking of that if you think anything I said anywhere was a threat, well, all I can say is that youda peed all over yourself if you saw what the Army threw at me--jumping out of airplanes was just the entry level cut]
I mean who do you think I am and what do you think Ive been through in my life?I'd think the name says all, esp to Army people. And you know I'm for real. C'mon, Paco, we've known each other for years and have mutual friends--do you think I'm not going to fight that? And do you think I EVER not go for all the marbles? Don't stop til all motion ceases!!--ax me how I know that.
I feel sort of outnumbered here a lot and I don't believe in giving my opponents a break, unless friends, like now. When all someone does is blast out on me and what I believe is important, does it all he time in an obnoxious manner, well its hard not to conclude this person does not hasv my best intersts at heart and its not a stretch to see that he may do me wrong if he gets the chance. I don't think thats paranoiad at all, most everybody I know thinks like that, lrrp or not. But I'd NEVER say I'm not a little weird--again, what would you expect?
I'm going to tell you why I'm a liberal- I like to get the bad guys!! I believe in America as expressed in our Constitution and Declaration of independence. I believe all men and women should have equal rights. The thing that galvanised me the most when I was young was watching the end of segregation. Communism was NEVER the threat to American values and rights that segregation was. I'd watch kids on TV like I went to school with getting beaten hosed down, spat on for trying to sit att lunch counters--you don't know how bad that looked. People from my church and community (St Marks, Berkeley) went down to register people (hint: not white) to vote--need I say what happened (Ref Scwerner, Goodman, Cheney, Americus GA).
One of the most galvanising photos of my life was and is that picture of that young black girl walking into the Litle Rock Hich school, surounded by jeering, spitting white teens. whenever I llok at that I think: well THAT really sucks, I'm going to fight the f-----g unAmerican power that brings THAT on, you bet!!! Every day and every night!!!. That black girl is one of my All American heroes still --what tremendous courage for a young girl.
Strom thurmond was governor of SC the year I was born (1948) and later broke off a splinter party of conservative denocrats diehard committed to segregation. Jesse Helms is more of the same but not so much. These are now elder statesmen in a party I could never vote for just because of that--if they were still dems, I''d do the same!.
My litmus test for detection of American Rights sensibility is: what did you do during segregation?? if you didn't fight it as soon as you were adult enough to realise what it was, then don't EVER look down on me as UnAmerican, I'll fight you day and night also. berkeley has NEVER had segregation nor slavery neither (I know, I know, the Yankees were as responsible for slavery as the South but HEY--I'm a Californian!! is that a copout or what?)
And I line up with the side that fights segregation and racediscrimination. and sex discrimination. there's only one choice here, again please, look at the record. Ann Coulter whines about being called a racist, sexist homophobe but that, unfortunately, is what happens when your side ALWAYS votes agains integration, women's, minorities and gay rights. always fights workers rights: the 8 hour day, the 5 day week, overtime, time and a half--I could go on an on..
I'm a liberal because I think we are the wealthiest country in the world and as the wealthiest, most powerful country in the world, with the most technology and agricultural production, its not ooo much to ask that all our citizens are fed and that every child has an education. "Leave no child behind!!" Who said that, anyway? I'll buy that and lets see it!! I think investing in Americans is money well spent.
I'll bet most of the pople reading this live midle class, white lives in nice home, with nice cars and all the acouterments of society. YOURE WINNING!!!! You have access to wealth and technology beyond the dreams of royalty only 20 years ago!!! The envy of 95% 0f the world!!! Whatever you pay to live here has GOT to be worth it!!! Quit belly aching !!(especially someone form a state that has no income taxes!!!).We live in a nation with a huge infrastructure that demands attention and money. We have a 3Trillion$$$ national debt--thats OUR debt, no matter who ran it up--20% of our output goes to debt service!! THERE"S NO FREE LUNCH!!!! Someone has to pay for all the schools and roads and bureaucracy (Bipartisan!) and BS. Thik of it as the cover charge

Its long now and I haven't said the half of it. i'm a liberal because I want America to live up to its goals and sayings. I'm a lrrp on a mission to make it so--it'll only end one way.

Later
Abu
James

happy just to be alive

PS--Cheney voted against increasing veterans benefits EVERY time he voted!! (6) I'm NOT kidding!!

[xgrunt]

No reply to my post ? Do you only direct your thoughts to conservatives? love ya Bro, xgrunt

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by xgrunt
I knew Nader didn't have a chance and I wouldn't want him in office but all politics is grassroots and until there is a viable alternative to the Big Two I will vote for the man not the machine. We as vets and this country and all of it's policys are being whipsawed between the power plays of both parties and as a result all of our reactions are reactive not active. I usually don't talk politics or religion it's a useless conversation but I stand by my right to vote for who I want and to worship my higher power without anyone else trying to cram their politics or their God on me. After all thats what I was supposed to be doing for the South Viets for the year I humped my ruck and rifle.

Sorry Frank, I skipped you but here:

I'm so cynical i vote strategically rather than honestly. if i was honest in my intentions I'd have voted for nader. i like a guy that takes on big corporations and big govt. like all the others, he is bullsht to some extent but I like the integrity with which he finances his campaigns. Shake the windows and rattle the doors, the ol revolutionary lrrpster is here. (still got my Che Guevara poster!)
Unfortunately he has no--I mean ZERO-- chance of getting elected. EVER. but what he does is take votes away from the dems--youre the only one I know who voted for Nader that woudnt have voted Democrat, other.

here's the election results: (from World Almanac 2002 p558)
Gore---51,003,894
Bush--50,459,211
Nader--2,843,410
Buchanan--446,734

I think most anybody looking at this knows who the king maker was. (hint: not Buchanan) most of naders votes would have gone democrat--I mean like 9 outta 10, right?-- esp in places like Florida, a liberal southern state where nader did the best. the election in FLA was decided ultimately by 534 votes--Naders 97K votes therewould have swung it for sure, even if most of his people stayed home.
bush should have run him as VP, he was better for bush than Cheney was!! (cynical snicker!!)
I gotta stand by my original statement but I will add IMHO (in my humble opinion) if that will make it all warm and groovy again

"i condemn the bad in others, yet do the worst, which I abhor"
Seneca

I voted for Gore because I'm a dutiful democrat--theyre more copacetic to my goals as stated to Packo but there's some things I'm pasionate about that theyre full of sht about, no error (gun ownership, death penalty, lax immigration, etc)
I hope Gore doesn't run, he's too much of a wuss. he should have beat bush!! My choice: Daschle
Anybody who asks his higher power what to do and then tries to do it has my complete support and respect--ANYBODY!.
God bless, Guys, gotta go to work and pay off the national debt.

James

happy just to be alive

[Gimpy]

the ONLY "Liberal" round heanh that thinks same, same as you!

I'm a "liberal" for the same "reasons" you are---even though I have voted for a "few" Repubs in my time.(A VERY few).

[exlrrp]

Thought for the day--we're too good?
This is one of the things that allus crack me up, Gimpy, ol son.
They call us do-gooders!!! I mean like: thats bad??? And tree huggers --thats bad too?? geez what grouches!! i member hugging trees somewhat a long time ago and the ground a good deal--that WASN'T bad, you bet, eh Gimpy ol chum??
but maybe you wouldn't know in one of them clanky things with a motor and turn signals and all--could you ski behind that?
"A floating foxhole attracts the eye and makes it dam hard to run away!"

later

James

PS Still raging against the machine! Yall will be more radical when you get old, I'll bet!!

[MORTARDUDE]

james :

Why do U continue your one man vendetta against Harvey B. on here ? He doesn't even post on here anymore.

Larry